State of the UK Toy Soldier Market (1 Viewer)

[Peiper007]

I am wondering what is going to happen in the UK Toy Soldier market after the news of K & C going out of business. Buying from Honk Kong is not an option for many of us. This together with the lack of release from one of the other main manufacturers, William Britains. I like the look of some of the new William Britains, but I collect Toy Soldiers and not pictures.............

There could be an opportunity for the new manufacturers such as Empire, Centurion, etc. While other will come to the fore such as T Gunn and J Jenkins.

any views?

 

[Charlie Brown]

The fact that K&C UK disappeared overnight doesn't suggest that it was a planned exit. As the UK importer how much stock was left sitting in the warehouse. Must be a considerable amount. Enough to severely disrupt the market if liquidated. I recall when the same happened to Britains and pieces were going for giveaway prices on Ebay as there simply wan't the buyers in relation to the amount available.

 

[Peiper007]

I would think K & C Hong Kong will want to sort out a new distributor ASAP. I do not want to get into who owns what and the stock left in K & C UK as there are too many issues....... such as would K & C HK have a right to get the stock back if K & C UK still owed funds for the that stock, who owns the stuff in transit........

lots to sort out, how much stock do you think K & C UK would have left? £100,000 plus...........

 

[Charlie Brown]

The value of the stock in the accounts will be far lower than retail price as based on cost. Possibly there's stock under reservation that hasn't been paid for yet. Though one assumes the vast majority has been. I was thinking of the sheer number of sets that were carried in stock. The liquidator will simply act to recover the banks debt quickly and efficiently i.e. auction it.

Unless aligned to another existing business who would undertake such a venture in the current market. Simply isn't the sales volume to warrant running an import warehouse operation. A sign of the changing times.

 

[Artillery_crazy]

I tend to agree with Charlie,
The liquidator will most likely reachout to one of the big UK based Auction houses i.e.LiveAuctioners, Veticus etc....and we are bound to be bidding on them soon...
Cheers
A_C

The value of the stock in the accounts will be far lower than retail price as based on cost. Possibly there's stock under reservation that hasn't been paid for yet. Though one assumes the vast majority has been. I was thinking of the sheer number of sets that were carried in stock. The liquidator will simply act to recover the banks debt quickly and efficiently i.e. auction it.

Unless aligned to another existing business who would undertake such a venture in the current market. Simply isn't the sales volume to warrant running an import warehouse operation. A sign of the changing times.

 

[Mirof]

" State of the UK Toy Soldier Market "
It's a bit grandiloquent statement


1 In Europe
It's only a distributor among others
you can buy from French, Italian, German distributors, even Belgium ( on line or visiting the shop )
2 There are still more than 100 other makers existing
3 Their site is still working !!!!!!!!!!!!
4 King & Country will certainly choose another distributor in UK
5 The moon is still there .... :salute::

Best, don't despair

 

[Horus]

I'm not a collector of K&C, (I had to draw the line somewhere for the sake of my wallet !) but to those who are, you can of course buy from Treefrog Treasures shop !
I on occasion do myself and pay customs dues.
With WB, FL & JJD depending on exchange rate prices tend to come out at just below UK full retail prices, but of course there is always the risk of incurring some unwanted costs if you have to send something back.
Touch wood so far I've not had too, the most I've had is a couple of dented boxes, but I collect for the figures and not the boxes.
Occasionally I even get the bonus, where the package has gone through customs and not attracted their attention and so I've not been charged.
Steve

 

[Baymax]

I think first the UK market is more what is called cottage industry and that does quite well. The loss of king and country won't make any difference to that. Nor will the loss of king and country affect Britain's, TG, or any other still operating.

There are not many big dealers in the UK I think this has been coming for a while now as we saw Treasure Bunker in Scotland a while back end selling king and country so, it may be that that brand is not really popular in the UK or, as popular but, that does not mean the hobby is in a bad way.

Britain's will do what it does and we will see how they develop with new owners, TG looks to be happy with its core demographic and what it is doing.

It was mentioned other manufacturers like Empire but, they fall into the cottage industry for me in terms of what they are making so, I would see them remaining in this area as nice as their releases are and I have some they are not at the standards of TG, king and country and others like FL

They will support the traditional cottage style industry we have here. I think what will happen with stock will be up to the Neville's as it is their stock all paid for and how they dispose of it will be interesting but, its going to be a cheap time for those people who want this stuff as their closure certainly shows you can hardly sell it at full retail in the UK.

To be honest I think this will have no affect on the hobby it will for those who wish to buy king and country cause some inconvenience in finding a dealer like Mike but, as we saw when JJD changed from their former dealers people adapt and change quickly.

It does not particularly bother me as I buy from overseas and the continent. I doubt we shall see a monopoly like we had with King and country UK who set prices and assigned dealers because there seems to not be the interest in the products. Its kind of like a poisoned chalice. I would imagine you will have to buy direct from Hong Kong and who after seeing an operation the size of the Neville's will want to put cash into something as shaky as this?

I think the UK needs a price restructure where dollar prices are not replicated in GBP which is not right and, will continue to make more people buy abroad.

The sun will still rise tomorrow and not much has changed really

 

[Empire MM]

It was mentioned other manufacturers like Empire but, they fall into the cottage industry for me in terms of what they are making so, I would see them remaining in this area as nice as their releases are and I have some they are not at the standards of TG, king and country and others like FL.

I think the UK needs a price restructure where dollar prices are not replicated in GBP which is not right and, will continue to make more people buy abroad.

Firstly,

Thanks for your purchases and support of my fledgling brand, I do appreciate it.

Well, I could have bought a small cottage with the money I have invested {sm4} But being serious, I do want to make one point clear about Empire.

When I established the brand, I stated that the quality fell somewhere between WB and K&C. At no point did I say we were at K&C standard and never ever compared the brand to FL! TG have, in my opinion, upped their game of late and good luck to them. We are what we are, a passionate family owned and funded small business endeavouring to release figures that please collectors at a low volume and price that makes the business viable for all concerned, something that is far from easy.

With regards the sterling v Dollar question. The exchange rates, if applied spot level, would kill sales in the US. It is a tough balancing act.

Cheers, Malcolm.

 

[Empire MM]

The value of the stock in the accounts will be far lower than retail price as based on cost. Possibly there's stock under reservation that hasn't been paid for yet. Though one assumes the vast majority has been. I was thinking of the sheer number of sets that were carried in stock. The liquidator will simply act to recover the banks debt quickly and efficiently i.e. auction it.

Unless aligned to another existing business who would undertake such a venture in the current market. Simply isn't the sales volume to warrant running an import warehouse operation. A sign of the changing times.

Not wanting to start a lot of dialogue or cause any offence but, unless there is proof that K&C UK have a debt to a bank, I think it a tad unfair to make the comment when Tony has said elsewhere the family, in particular Mike don't need stress etc currently.

Behind each business there is a family and people with feelings. Mike and the family gave a lot to our hobby so I would just ask for some compassion to be shown to them. It hurts me when people make negative comments about Empire, so I speak with authority on this subject.

Thanks folks. :salute::

 

[Empire MM]

I am wondering what is going to happen in the UK Toy Soldier market after the news of K & C going out of business. Buying from Honk Kong is not an option for many of us. This together with the lack of release from one of the other main manufacturers, William Britains. I like the look of some of the new William Britains, but I collect Toy Soldiers and not pictures.............

There could be an opportunity for the new manufacturers such as Empire, Centurion, etc. While other will come to the fore such as T Gunn and J Jenkins.

any views?

We will all, only come to the fore if people buy our product ranges and support us in depth. No one has a bottomless pit of money or never ending credit line.

It will be interesting to see how this all pans out.........

 

[Obee]

I don't know if anyone else read the 'fine print' on page 30 of the latest edition of Toy Soldier Collector, the UK based toy soldier magazine,

but in the advertisement for DORSET SOLDIERS, I saw that Giles Brown is putting his long established toy soldier company up for sale !!!!

He states that "Due to a medical problem (not life threatening) I have decided to sell Dorset Soldiers."

So another icon of the British establishment is hanging up his boots !!!!

If anyone is interested, contact Giles direct : sales@dorsetsoldiers.com

John

 

[graycap]

Although I am very sad that K & C UK have ceased business it is just remembering that K & C in Hong Kong is still going strong. Now, if Andy shut up shop that would be an event of practically apocalypse proportions!

Like everyone else I have no idea what prompted K&C UK's decision. Declining sales, rising prices etc. Perhaps the UK collecting base at the "higher" end of the hobby is just is n't big enough. As others have pointed out the hobby is probably in long-term (not imminent) decline. During the course of the year I attend some wargaming events and go to military vehicle shows and re-enactor displays and notice the same demographic trends at work. At all of the above there are always some new young enthusiasts but not in the numbers to renew the hobby on a regular basis.

At some of the re-enactor events I saw last year - Folkstone, Detling it is getting a bit bizarre to see 10st "Screaming Eagles" and SS Panzer Grenadiers with an average age in the 40s rather than the 20's that were the average back in 1944. I realise of course the entry costs for re-enacting are even higher than collecting toys soldiers - uniforms, weapons and complying with the various UK and EU regulations (more stringent than the US I expect).

What is also significant is the almost complete disappearance of "war toys" from toy shops and other retail outlets (for good or bad). What I think is happening, as whereas 30-40 years ago we bought toy soldiers, wargamed with Airfix models etc, the current generation buy action figures of super heroes and Star Wars characters or enjoy ever more sophisticated computer games. I think we just need to accept this situation and enjoy our hobby while we can.

 

[maddadicus]

My sense of the U.K. very active cottage TS industry is that they seem not to be interested in U.S. collectors' business. We see at the U.K. show show reports all these wonderful figures, but no U.S. dealers , no websites to show some sense of what is offered, no pricing structures, etc. Maybe the additional shipping, vat taxes, customs issues is making the overseas trade route too costly for the profit margins, necessary to stay in business and thus no attempted effort to reach our market. Quite frankly, I am bored with our shows being taken over by the mass produced factory stuff. I yearn for the days where I could find unique pieces. Now its 3 or 4 main dealers all selling the same stuff at the same prices. HOHUM..You can not say that about your shows..I envy you. Michael

 

[Warrior]

My sense of the U.K. very active cottage TS industry is that they seem not to be interested in U.S. collectors' business. We see at the U.K. show show reports all these wonderful figures, but no U.S. dealers , no websites to show some sense of what is offered, no pricing structures, etc. Maybe the additional shipping, vat taxes, customs issues is making the overseas trade route too costly for the profit margins, necessary to stay in business and thus no attempted effort to reach our market. Quite frankly, I am bored with our shows being taken over by the mass produced factory stuff. I yearn for the days where I could find unique pieces. Now its 3 or 4 main dealers all selling the same stuff at the same prices. HOHUM..You can not say that about your shows..I envy you. Michael

This post nails it, even though I'm pretty sure I'm one of the four selling the same stuff at the same prices...................:wink2:............one of the things I always enjoy in viewing the pictures from the London Show is the wide variety of unique, cottage industry type offerings that you just do not see on this side of the pond at shows or elsewhere for that matter.

In addition to the toy soldiers, I also sell wargaming (small scale) items, many of which I import from the UK. At one time, I was the US agent for SHQ, Newline Designs, Battlefield Miniatures and Kennington Miniatures. I also sold Sentry Models buildings, Shellhole Scenics and one other companies scenics, all of which are made of a heavy resin. I also had a wholesale account with Britannia miniatures.

At this point, I am down to SHQ, Newline and Kennington, all of whom manufacture metal wargaming figures, I was forced to drop all the others as the costs associated with getting the goods from the UK to the US ate up too much of my profits, we're talking close to TWENTY percent of the retail value was lost to shipping fees that I had to absorb on this end; sorry, the margins on wargaming items are not that great as it is, so that was that.

I suspect that is the same reason why you don't see a lot of the unique, terrific UK toy soldier offerings here in the US being sold through authorized agents, the cost of getting the goods to the US is outrageous and gets worse all the time, USPS just announced yet another price increase.

Good points Michael..................

 

[Empire MM]

My sense of the U.K. very active cottage TS industry is that they seem not to be interested in U.S. collectors' business. We see at the U.K. show show reports all these wonderful figures, but no U.S. dealers , no websites to show some sense of what is offered, no pricing structures, etc. Maybe the additional shipping, vat taxes, customs issues is making the overseas trade route too costly for the profit margins, necessary to stay in business and thus no attempted effort to reach our market. Quite frankly, I am bored with our shows being taken over by the mass produced factory stuff. I yearn for the days where I could find unique pieces. Now its 3 or 4 main dealers all selling the same stuff at the same prices. HOHUM..You can not say that about your shows..I envy you. Michael

The other week, Empire was judged as one of the cottage industry, small scale manufacturers so, being such I would just like to comment.

We / I am very much interested in the US collectors business and that is why in my first 6 months of trading reached an agreement with Treefrog to act as my reseller for the US. I also attended the Chicago show last year and supported Treefrog over each day. I also made my initial introductions with 4 more US retailers......

Now, we have Treefrog still selling and promoting our unique product, alongside George at Minutemen and Bill at Sagers Toy Soldiers. ( the other two potential retailers got lost along the way somehow?)

We only make 100 of each figure and number and certificate each figure, so low in number compared to the big 4 I feel. We have tried and continue to try to reach out to the US collector.

As for the UK market..... Interesting days....

We care, we listen and we react, how many other manufacturers, cottage or not, do that these days.

Keep collecting and having fun folks, it is what this is all about remember {sm4}{sm4}

Malcolm. :salute::

 

[NicktheBaggie]

I've started buying from Italian sources. Gutted to see K&C UK go, I was a frequent customer. As a LAH collector (amongst FW DD) there's not many suppliers in the UK that stock up and current LAH. K&C.com to me personally is not a likely source to be purchasing from. P&P costs and time it takes to arrive. Like the big kid I am, I want my goodies as soon as, not a wait of 2-3 weeks. Hopefully a UK distributer will be found ASAP. (with the club discount too) but I'm guessing that's too much to ask for one day.

 

[bridport]

Yes, I am very sorry to see K&C UK go, and it will severely impact my future spending. I agree that ordering from HK is not an option due to postage and customs. Similarly from the USA.

Does anyone know if ordering from Italy attracts any extra taxes / duty? Also, any indication on what postage would cost?

 

[jazzeum]

Treefrog does not charge shipping for international orders over US $250.

 

[Wolfgang_UK]

Does anyone know if ordering from Italy attracts any extra taxes / duty?


NOT YET{sm3}{sm2}