Stuff - Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things (2 Viewers)

[Combat]

From some reason this book made me think about toy soldier collecting (the entire review is in the Wash post):

"Six million to fifteen million Americans suffer from hoarding that causes them distress or interferes with their ability to live," authors Randy Frost and Gail Steketee write. "You may have noticed some of the signs but have never thought of it as hoarding. . . . The attachments to objects among people who hoard are not much different from the attachments all of us form to our things."

The writers here take the position that hoarding is an actual physical and neurological condition that may be related to OCD or autism or Asperger's syndrome, not a simple bad habit that can be cured by an afternoon spent in the company of a clutter organizer. It is not a symptom of a lax character or bad work habits or something that reading a few articles in popular women's magazines can mitigate.

The authors are refreshingly uncertain about what the causes of hoarding might be; it certainly seems to cluster in families. It might be the result of a genetic condition, but whatever it is, it's serious and should be approached in a serious manner. Hoarders who are suddenly and unfeelingly stripped of their possessions -- whether they be grand pianos or gum wrappers -- may become suicidal. Even more sobering is the likelihood that there is no easy or sure-fire treatment. After things have been cleaned up around them, hoarders very often fill up their empty dwellings again.

The authors' approach here is anthropological rather than sociological. They have evidently compiled studies with many participants, but the studies don't figure in this book. Instead, they rely upon a series of in-depth profiles of women and men, each of whom they treat with remarkable compassion and respect. (Hoarders, they suggest, are often extremely intelligent, outgoing and friendly, even though they may be at pains to keep their immediate surroundings off-limits to their friends and acquaintances.)

 

[PJDeluhery]

Not being defensive here, but there is a big difference, IMHO, between "collecting" and "hoarding." I'll leave to the better-qualified whether the two are related, but "hoarding" (of the kind you speak) seems to me to be compulsive, self-destructive and interferes with a "normal life." Collecting is just a hobby or interest.

 

[thebritfarmer]

There are interesting show about this on A&E (Hoarders) and TLC (Hoarders....Buried Alive) It really is quite an eye opener Most just save everything including perishable items.

One woman had a liquefied pumpkin in her living room !!!! and other lost her cat a few years ago it was dead underneath six feet of garbage flat as a pancake

Another didn't consider herself a hoarder more of a rescuer of things

 

[Toy Soldier Brigade]

I would agree that they're is a big difference between hoarding and collecting. Collections tend to be organized. Hoarding is just surrounding yourself with stuff to help the person deal with some deep seated physiological problem. Hoarders can not stand the thought of parting with their possessions.

Wait maybe they are more closely related after all. At least my stuff is organized.

 

[Njja]

It sounds to me like todays modern argument, that no one is responsible for their own actions. Everything nowdays is a disease, or disorder that seems to

be beyond anyones personal responsibility.

Certainly in some "rare" situations this might be the case, but generally speaking I would think not.

People are influenced by many experiences during their lifetime, these may lead to a desire to collect, and there are just as many ways to collect as

there are collectors.

My experience with Lionel trains seem to be a good example. Some people collected engines, or box cars, some a certain year or style such as freight

or passenger sets. Some collected condition, and more then a few wanted one of everything.....in some cases, one of each variey of everything. This

last choice often led to what could easily be described as "hoarding" with boxes piled on top of boxes......and the collector unaware of what he

actually had, and where it might be.

One nice fellow I knew had a narrow pathway leading out to his 2 car garage which also contained a narrow passage to the door. No cars in there

just boxes piled to the ceiling......and a few more in the trunk of his car, items he just picked up!

 

[wayne556517]

BUT if i came home and all my soldiers/vehicles where gone i would be suicidal...................,well maybe not suicidal but very pissed off....................

 

[theBaron]

It sounds to me like todays modern argument, that no one is responsible for their own actions. Everything nowdays is a disease, or disorder that seems to be beyond anyones personal responsibility.

Well put!

 

[lancer]

There are interesting show about this on A&E (Hoarders) and TLC (Hoarders....Buried Alive) It really is quite an eye opener Most just save everything including perishable items.

One woman had a liquefied pumpkin in her living room !!!! and other lost her cat a few years ago it was dead underneath six feet of garbage flat as a pancake

Another didn't consider herself a hoarder more of a rescuer of things

My wife and I watch these shows, or attempt to watch them. I always reach a point where I start spouting off about the mess, ie., "Just throw the crap out. How can someone live like that, spoil their house, health, and family relationships?". It all ends up with the experts assigning some 3 letter title to the disorder. The disorder must have a 3 letter title, or it doesn't count as a modern disorder, right? OCD, ADD, IUD, DOA, or whatever. Got to have 3 letters... -- Al

 

[Combat]

The most famous hoarders were the Collyer brothers. I posted their story before but since the subject has come up again this might be of interest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collyer_brothers

 

[thebritfarmer]

My wife and I watch these shows, or attempt to watch them. I always reach a point where I start spouting off about the mess, ie., "Just throw the crap out. How can someone live like that, spoil their house, health, and family relationships?". It all ends up with the experts assigning some 3 letter title to the disorder. The disorder must have a 3 letter title, or it doesn't count as a modern disorder, right? OCD, ADD, IUD, DOA, or whatever. Got to have 3 letters... -- Al

I have to agree with you Al, I also say the same things !!

 

[Njja]

Speaking about hoarding there is an interesting new show on the History Channel called "American Pickers". It is about a couple of guys that travel all over the country looking for interesting items to buy. They often run across people that have spent a lifetime collecting things often with no plan on what to do with them! I like it because I have spent my entire life buying and selling things and I have enjoyed every minute of it.

http://www.history.com/shows/american-pickers

There are also several interesting books by Tom Cotter called:

"The Hemi in the Barn"
"The Cobra in the Barn"
"The Vincent in the Barn"

They contain wonderful stories of people finding classic cars and motorcycles stashed away and forgotten until the day someone discovers them again under a pile of rubbish!

I'm still looking for my classic 427/435HP 67 Corvette Coupe I know its out there......I just don't remember where I left it!

 

[jazzeum]

I don't know about hoarding (collecting may be related but not the same thing; anything done to excess is never a good thing).

However, conditions like OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) are real; my son suffers from it and it's not often a pretty picture.

So before you start trivializing a real psychological condition as a denial of responsibility, I suggest you do a little research.

I hope this never afflicts one of your friends or family members.

 

[Njja]

I don't think anyone intends to diminish any actual physical, or mental disorder as determined by a medical doctor. Anyone with any kind of a health issue deserves compassion and understanding.

That being said, it would seem nowdays that no one is actually responsible for anything they do themselves. We have people that have smoked for 40 years suing because they couldn't help themselves, people that drink a quart of hard liquor a day aren't responsible because it is a disease, why even poor
Jessica Simpson is addicted to nicorette gum because someone accidently gave her a piece once!

Now I am not a medical doctor, so I'm probably wrong about alcohol, but I have never smoked or drank....because it just tasted god awful! I watched all my buddys sit around nearly every night polishing off a quart or two of beer and a pack of smokes. At first they would give me a hard time, but when that didn't work they found it an advantage when some other drunk wanted to start trouble, they would usually say "go see that guy"

Today when I run into my old pals they still always have a beer or 6 in their hands.....I'm sure its not their fault, but you have to admit when you have polished off 5,000 beers in your lifetime.......don't you have any responsibility?

Here is a shot of Jessica Simpson (tied into the nicorette thing above)

 

[thebritfarmer]

I don't think anyone intends to diminish any actual physical, or mental disorder as determined by a medical doctor. Anyone with any kind of a health issue deserves compassion and understanding.

Absolutely John, agree 100%

 

[Combat]

I think there is something of a difference between addiction and mental illness. Arguably with addiction, the individual makes a decision to partake of something like drugs or alcohol. With mental illness there is no such decision. The cases of hoarding noted here are extreme cases where the participants have obvious mental issues. Collecting is a subset of hoarding. Most people that I know - even those with an interest in history - have no interest in collecting toy soldiers. Much less paying hundreds or thousands of dollars to assemble collections. Many might consider it a bit odd to collect toy soldiers at these prices. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it if your collecting habits are kept within your means.

 

[Spitfrnd]

I think there is something of a difference between addiction and mental illness. Arguably with addiction, the individual makes a decision to partake of something like drugs or alcohol. With mental illness there is no such decision. The cases of hoarding noted here are extreme cases where the participants have obvious mental issues. Collecting is a subset of hoarding. Most people that I know - even those with an interest in history - have no interest in collecting toy soldiers. Much less paying hundreds or thousands of dollars to assemble collections. Many might consider it a bit odd to collect toy soldiers at these prices. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it if your collecting habits are kept within your means.

The line is a bit fuzzy at best. With an additiction, it is projected that the decision is compelled by some chemical or nural imbalance which can be said to amount to no decision at all. There is however a difference between an addiction and abuse of substance or habit.

 

[maddadicus]

Not being defensive here, but there is a big difference, IMHO, between "collecting" and "hoarding." I'll leave to the better-qualified whether the two are related, but "hoarding" (of the kind you speak) seems to me to be compulsive, self-destructive and interferes with a "normal life." Collecting is just a hobby or interest.

My name is Michael and I am a hoarder....collector..whatever. I blame it on my Mom and Dad.. As an aside, after we hoard our boxes, brochures, sales receipts, collection insurence documents, loose figures painted and unpainted, unfinished model kits, paints and putty, diorama material, display cases, spare rooms and more display cases, piles and shelves of reference books, historical and war videos ..how many of us could qualify to be on that show? Michael

 

[maddadicus]

Speaking about hoarding there is an interesting new show on the History Channel called "American Pickers". It is about a couple of guys that travel all over the country looking for interesting items to buy. They often run across people that have spent a lifetime collecting things often with no plan on what to do with them! I like it because I have spent my entire life buying and selling things and I have enjoyed every minute of it.

http://www.history.com/shows/american-pickers

There are also several interesting books by Tom Cotter called:

"The Hemi in the Barn"
"The Cobra in the Barn"
"The Vincent in the Barn"

They contain wonderful stories of people finding classic cars and motorcycles stashed away and forgotten until the day someone discovers them again under a pile of rubbish!

I'm still looking for my classic 427/435HP 67 Corvette Coupe I know its out there......I just don't remember where I left it!

Not sure I enjoy this show as much as some. I always feel that they are trying to screw some real old folks out of some really nice and valuable stuff....I know that they also buy things that I consider junk, so I am not an expert here..Michael

 

[Njja]

Not sure I enjoy this show as much as some. I always feel that they are trying to screw some real old folks out of some really nice and valuable stuff....I know that they also buy things that I consider junk, so I am not an expert here..Michael

....................................................................................................

Its a fine line, and its easy to see how some people get that impression. Buts its really not the case. Here is an example taken from Pawn Stars on tv.

A fellow brought in a revolutionary war bond hoping to get enough money to buy a new guitar. Rick Harrison (the pawn broker) brought in an expert

and found out the bond was worth between $20K-$25K on auction, and up to $35K offered at retail. Should he get $30K? He decided he wanted $15,000.

Final deal was $12,000 and the guitar he originally wanted. I think this was very fair. Rick has a capital investment of say $13,000 he may not see a return for 3

to 6 months, and while waiting he has overhead expenses rent, labor, insurance. Certainly he is entitled to make a return for his investment.

I have been buying and selling items my entire life. Many times I have freely given advice to clients reguarding items of value. Here is an example, I was

out on a train buy and the seller showed me a terrific collection of rare comic books. A run 1-80 of Fantastic Four, 1-40 Spiderman, The Atom, Flash, Green

Lantern all classuc Silver Age stuff. He was moving and really wanted to sell everything NOW! Even though I had started with comics, I was now

into Lionel trains and only had a few early Mad's and other comics in my personal collection. I seperated the really valuable items, from the simply

good items and told him where to take the good items for a quick sale. I also told him to put the valuable stuff away do a little research and take it to a

show in NYC one day where he would do very well. I left with my train purchse.

A few weeks later he called me again and asked me if I wanted just the good items, he didn't even want to bother to go and sell them himself. I

really didn't want the items but he said they would just go in the trash.

I went back and paid him roughly 1/2 the value of the good items and told him to keep the valuable stuff for the future. I didn't really want the

comics, but I knew once a month there was a big show in NYC where I could recoup my investment less show costs, meals and a weekend of my

time. As I was leaving he brought out the other box of classic books and gave them to me. He said he had gotten more then he expected, and knew

the rest would just wind up in the trash.

When you have something of value you can get whatever you want to for it, but it does take time and effort. If you want to do the research,

establish your knowledge, or reputation, you may get top dollar. If you want a quick sale probably not.

Its like life, if you make an effort you will be rewarded.

 

[Combat]

More hoarders in the news:

An elderly couple was rescued Monday after being trapped for possibly weeks under mountains of debris in their apartment, Chicago authorities said.

The husband and wife, who are believed to be in their 70s, are both listed in serious condition at an area hospital, Larry Langford, Director of Media Affairs for the Chicago Fire Department told CNN.

According to Langford, rodents had attacked the couple who could not free themselves from the litter and clutter that rendered them immobile.

"They were in it," Langford said. "I'm not sure how they got in it, they were in it, and they couldn't get up and get out."

Langford described the debris in the apartment as "front to back, floor to ceiling."

The victims were found after a well check on the residence, authorities said.

Robert Perez, public information officer for the Chicago Police said the couple hadn't been seen for a couple of weeks.

Perez told CNN that fire fighters had to break down the door to gain entry into the apartment.

"When they got in there, it was just debris everywhere," Perez said,"sort of like a hoarder, that was the term that was being used."

The husband and wife were unconscious but alive, he added.

"Apparently they had been there a while," Langford said. "It's kind of an unbelievable sight. They've been in there for a long time and there's just a lot of stuff in there."