Stukas…and other things (2 Viewers)

[Mitch]

Rob/Neil...

Even the Me110 was rather rubbish against spits and hurricanes for all its firepower it was a gumbersome aircraft in a dogfight.

I know what I would have rather been in
Mitch

Yes I've read several accounts from RAF pilots in which they were shocked at how easily the Stuka would be blown to pieces when bullet struck one of those bombs. The Stuka was fine against static targets and fleeing civvies but stood little chance against spits and Hurricanes. At least the ME111 had better armour and guns so their crews had a better chance.

Rob

 

[Rob]

Rob/Neil...

Even the Me110 was rather rubbish against spits and hurricanes for all its firepower it was a gumbersome aircraft in a dogfight.

I know what I would have rather been in
Mitch

Quite right Mitch, the 110 did have deadly firepower but was still outclassed by both our main fighters. Was just reading from the magazine that came with the Telegraph this weekend. An RAF Pilot describes how he shot down an ME 109 in his Hurricane and the Luftwaffe pilot baled out safely. When he landed the RAF Pilot went to meet him in the mess and buy him a drink before he was taken away into captivity. Throughout the meeting the Nazi pilot was insisting he was shot down by a Spitfire despite everyone else trying to tell him it was a Hurricane. As he left for the prison camp he turned and said to them ' Please tell them in Germany I was shot down by a Spitfire' ! Even the Nazi's admired them^&grin

Rob

 

[Mitch]

I think the psychological effect of the spifire was also a great boost as it must have been really disheartening to have been in a stuka or He 111 knowing they were going to crawl all over the formation. The Hurricanes may have been more numerous during the battle but, the effect this aircraft had cannot be underestimated. I have read accounts from german crews who watched almost in awe as they flew by

I like the way that the enemy was forgotten on the whole by both sides aircrew a drink in the mess before interogation and imprisonment!!!! It all makes the battle that bit more special than it already is
Mitch

 

[Rob]

I think the psychological effect of the spifire was also a great boost as it must have been really disheartening to have been in a stuka or He 111 knowing they were going to crawl all over the formation. The Hurricanes may have been more numerous during the battle but, the effect this aircraft had cannot be underestimated. I have read accounts from german crews who watched almost in awe as they flew by

I like the way that the enemy was forgotten on the whole by both sides aircrew a drink in the mess before interogation and imprisonment!!!! It all makes the battle that bit more special than it already is
Mitch

Absolutely. The psychological stress must have been huge. Imagine those HE111 pilots. You've flown all the way to London, through swarms of Spits and Hurricanes and dropped your bombs on the City below. Now you turn your bomber for home, your escort has long since gone and you are own your own knowing that even as you begin the return journey more and more of Dowdings heroes are climbing to lay in wait for you as you try and make it home. And even if you make it home.....you'll have to do it all over again tomorrow.

In the same magazine a Nazi bomber pilot described how chillingly accurate British AA could be, this is because the Luftwaffe used the same route into London day after day and the AA guns had it pegged right on the money.{bravo}}^&cool The pilot said they lost a lot of aircraft because of this.

Rob

 

[uksubs]

Rob/Neil...

Even the Me110 was rather rubbish against spits and hurricanes for all its firepower it was a gumbersome aircraft in a dogfight.

I know what I would have rather been in
Mitch

Well we know what Galland wanted a squadron of Spitfires{bravo}}

 

[uksubs]

Absolutely. The psychological stress must have been huge. Imagine those HE111 pilots. You've flown all the way to London, through swarms of Spits and Hurricanes and dropped your bombs on the City below. Now you turn your bomber for home, your escort has long since gone and you are own your own knowing that even as you begin the return journey more and more of Dowdings heroes are climbing to lay in wait for you as you try and make it home. And even if you make it home.....you'll have to do it all over again tomorrow.

In the same magazine a Nazi bomber pilot described how chillingly accurate British AA could be, this is because the Luftwaffe used the same route into London day after day and the AA guns had it pegged right on the money.{bravo}}^&cool The pilot said they lost a lot of aircraft because of this.

Rob

Interesting stuff :wink2: I read that Poles were flying head on to the bomber formations in there Hurricanes^&cool{bravo}}

 

[Rob]

Goering had a lot to answer for. Galland said in this magazine that they had to stay close to the bombers, the Spits would come tearing down on them from high above and this cost them too many fighters.{bravo}}

Rob

 

[uksubs]

Goering had a lot to answer for. Galland said in this magazine that they had to stay close to the bombers, the Spits would come tearing down on them from high above and this cost them too many fighters.{bravo}}

Rob

What I find interesting is how the 8th Air force dealt with with the problem of escorting bombers to Germany and won where the German lost in 1940

 

[Rob]

What I find interesting is how the 8th Air force dealt with with the problem of escorting bombers to Germany and won where the German lost in 1940

The P51 Mustang was a superb fighter,better than the 109 and they also had long range drop tanks .

Rob

 

[uksubs]

The P51 Mustang was a superb fighter,better than the 109 and they also had long range drop tanks .

Rob

What made the Mustang was the Rolls- Royce engine

 

[uksubs]

The P51 Mustang was a superb fighter,better than the 109 and they also had long range drop tanks .

Rob

I think your right having long range fighters made the difference witch the Me 109 & Spitfire were not

 

[Phantom Warrior]

What I find interesting is how the 8th Air force dealt with with the problem of escorting bombers to Germany and won where the German lost in 1940

The bombers were to lure the German fighters up to attack the bombers so the Mustangs and Thunderbolts could destroy the Luftwaffe. The fighter cover was often not near the bombers, but ahead of them on fighter sweeps against the waiting Me109s and FW190s. The bombing campaign was more about destroying the Luftwaffe to secure air supremacy over the beaches on D-Day than about the actual bombing.

Terry

 

[Rob]

I think your right having long range fighters made the difference witch the Me 109 & Spitfire were not

The Merlin engine together with the drop Tanks made the P51 an awesome weapon of War. The Pilots felt almost invincible, so much so that they would escort the bombers home only so far and then go back into Germany and hunt down their own targets, roads, railways and anything that moved. They did this with the words of one of the commanding officers ringing in their ears ' I don't care what you do, get them in the air, get them on the ground, just get them '

It made a massive contribution to allied air superiority.

Rob

 

[Mitch]

I read some stuff on the polish pilots and, they were so keen that even the commanders could not keep them in check at first. First sight of the Luftwaffe and the red mist came over and, off they went. Gung ho but, you have to admire the spirit they showed
Mitch

 

[Rob]

I read some stuff on the polish pilots and, they were so keen that even the commanders could not keep them in check at first. First sight of the Luftwaffe and the red mist came over and, off they went. Gung ho but, you have to admire the spirit they showed
Mitch

Yes , that scene in the BOB in which their commander is shouting at them over the radio and trying to keep them in control happened quite a bit to start with, but as you say Mitch they were desperate to kill Germans and avenge their country. Its that sort of spirit that helped remind Hitler he had an appointment in Russia:wink2: (an even bigger mistake!!{eek3})

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Rob..

It must have been an eye opener just throw out all the rules and flight regs but, I think 303 squadron which, was mainly polish had the highest kill rate for the BOB if, memory serves
Mitch

Yes , that scene in the BOB in which their commander is shouting at them over the radio and trying to keep them in control happened quite a bit to start with, but as you say Mitch they were desperate to kill Germans and avenge their country. Its that sort of spirit that helped remind Hitler he had an appointment in Russia:wink2: (an even bigger mistake!!{eek3})

Rob

 

[Rob]

Rob..

It must have been an eye opener just throw out all the rules and flight regs but, I think 303 squadron which, was mainly polish had the highest kill rate for the BOB if, memory serves
Mitch

Yes I think you may well be right here Mitch.

Rob

 

[uksubs]

The bombers were to lure the German fighters up to attack the bombers so the Mustangs and Thunderbolts could destroy the Luftwaffe. The fighter cover was often not near the bombers, but ahead of them on fighter sweeps against the waiting Me109s and FW190s. The bombing campaign was more about destroying the Luftwaffe to secure air supremacy over the beaches on D-Day than about the actual bombing.
I
Terry

Terry I've read loads of book on the subject and think the bombers were a bit more than fighter bait ,your right the fighters played a big part in destruction of the luftwaffe but Harris was not keen for the bombers to be taken away from main bomber plan and being used for D-Day , 2nd tarctical air force and the American 9th were used more but I do think RAF bomber command and 8th Air force played a big part in the downfall of the Nazi

 

[Rob]

These guys that flew both day and night missions were real heroes in my book. They must have have nerves of steel to do this night and day , day after day. The RAF Bomber command memorial will be
ready next year and it's going to be a fitting memorial to our heroes, the RAF and USAAF burnt the
heart out of Nazi Germany and helped shorten the War , deepest respect to them.

Rob

 

[lancer]

These guys that flew both day and night missions were real heroes in my book. They must have have nerves of steel to do this night and day , day after day. The RAF Bomber command memorial will be
ready next year and it's going to be a fitting memorial to our heroes, the RAF and USAAF burnt the
heart out of Nazi Germany and helped shorten the War , deepest respect to them.

Rob

As was said, the Germans turned Europe into a fortress, but forgot to build the roof. The Allied air war of every aspect was crucial and essential to victory. -- Al