Tanks and Men K&C Gets IT Right! (1 Viewer)

[Hunter Rose]

The Karl Otto figure and Tiger I also maintain this correct size relation ship; resulting in a very realistic display.

No they don't.

The Karl Otto Tiger is a 1/30 vehicle (using the old Tunisian Tiger mold) and a normally proportioned K&C figure. The Karl Otto figure may be short, but he's still too stocky.

Don't put the Karl Otto Tiger next to the Oddball Sherman if you are worried about correct relative size of those two tanks. You'd have a 1/30 Tiger next to a larger 1/28 Sherman.

 

[katana]

I was reffering to the size relationship between the Tiger I and the figure; which is correct even though the figure may be well fed! The size relation is realistic rather than the old relationship where the figures head was above the level of the deck. The increase in figure and vehicle size has an upper limit. The larger TCS and K&C figures of 67mm are within the normal range of human height to be realistic when posed with 1/25-1/24 scale die-cast vehicle models. Wayne and I have posted photos of this combination for reference. A large number of Tin, Diecast and Plastic vehicles and artillery models are available in these scales made by; Gonio, Franklin Mint, Tasca, Tamiya VsTank etc. All offer substantialy better detail and lower cost than polystone. Hopefully the figure size issue will stabilize where it is now. Collectors who prefer 1/30 have W. Britains and First Legion. Collectors who prefer 1/27 have K&C, TCS and Thomas Gunn. Figarti if they return to production have stated their figures will be 1/30 the same as their excellent armor and artillery.

 

[LTC PaulN]

SWEET BABY JESUS...THEY'RE MODELS....TOYS!!!!

You guys need to either (a) put away your micrometers and learn to enjoy life, (b) find another hobby, or (c) sculpt and paint the **** things yourselves. This criticism went beyond being constructive a while ago.

 

[jazzeum]

People are entitled to their opinion as are you. If you don't like the opinions, nothing says you have to read them.

 

[LTC PaulN]

You're right, my comments were rude. I'm usually not one to criticize the manufacturers, as I appreciate the artistry and research that goes into their productions. Choosing to purchase or not is usually critique enough for me; I enjoy the hobby, but maintain a certain perspective that many share but others do not.

 

[katana]

Some people enjoy discussing the more obscure details of a hobby; others do not. I am a retired engineer so the technical details appeal to me. I build models in many scales, so scale and model accuracy are important. I enjoy 1/30 scale Toy Soldiers and I think there are areas that can be improved by the manufacturers. Discussing problems in a positive way can result in improved products. Manufacturers usually encourage feedback from their customers and I know many of them read and respond to technical discussions.

 

[jazzeum]

You're right, my comments were rude. I'm usually not one to criticize the manufacturers, as I appreciate the artistry and research that goes into their productions. Choosing to purchase or not is usually critique enough for me; I enjoy the hobby, but maintain a certain perspective that many share but others do not.

I didn't think your comments were rude and I tend to normally agree with you. However, I also like to hear other's comments on scale and size as it seems to be an issue that never seems to go away in the 12 years I have been a collector.

 

[katana]

The scale/size issue will go away when manufacturers provide products at the same scale/size listed in their catalog or on the box. I have a TCS 1/30 scale Stug III; beautiful model but it is 1/28 scale and looks silly setting next to my TCS 1/30 scale Arnhem Tiger I; that actually is 1/30 scale. The same company and two different scale Panzers in two years! I buy K&C figures and they are 7mm larger than a 60mm W. Britains Fallschirmjager; which was marked on the box as 54mm!!!!!????.
I love my digital micrometer. I really need it to determine what size products I have bought after I receive them.

 

[sammy719]

I didn't think your comments were rude and I tend to normally agree with you. However, I also like to hear other's comments on scale and size as it seems to be an issue that never seems to go away in the 12 years I have been a collector.

Brad couldn't have spoken any more clearer the truth here, as I have been a member here since 2007 and if there is one never ending topic to stir the blood it's scale size, I don't pay much attention to it as I did in the beginning because the beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say, that being I may mix in a few K&C, Britains with my mostly all First Legion collection and see no problem others may see a very small size difference and think different, but I do believe that Katana is correct that if a item stats it's 1:30th 1:32nd 1:28th it should be what it says...Sammy

 

[katana]

No they don't.

The Karl Otto Tiger is a 1/30 vehicle (using the old Tunisian Tiger mold) and a normally proportioned K&C figure. The Karl Otto figure may be short, but he's still too stocky.

Don't put the Karl Otto Tiger next to the Oddball Sherman if you are worried about correct relative size of those two tanks. You'd have a 1/30 Tiger next to a larger 1/28 Sherman.

A difficult job applying the Zimmerit to that old Tunisian Tiger I. No wonder the cost has gone up so much. Plus I never knew that the Early Tiger I's had Zimmerit applied. The Film industry never seems to get the details right when it comes to the military.

 

[wayne556517]

I often think wouldn't it be great to be able to buy a figure/vehicle/plane from ANY manufacturer with confidence knowing that it will all go together scale wise,but we don't have that unfortunately so it is what it is.

Each company have their own style which IMO is a good thing,as we all know we all have different tastes etc.

But what is annoying is when they start making different scale size in the same company and they all have been guilty of that one,i don't know the process behind the TS industry but it can't be impossible to stay true to a scale !!

Sometimes it is like 2 hobbies when you see the difference there is and i find that a pity as like i said imagine the diorama possibilities if they all went together.

 

[maddadicus]

Since my name was invoked by Katana, my gut feeling for some time has been to pay no attention to scale claims by any mfg. but to trust the general size of a model next to another for fit.. I and others continue to ask for and offer side by side comparison photos of every mfgs. models vs another. Many of my current purchases have been because of the kindness of other collectors. The proper scale discussion has become a moot point as it seems only a handful of collectors actually measure scale ( unlike any mfg. that declares his product is this or that. ) Many of us have in the past, done the math and proven every mfg. to be misleading for any number of models. So, in reality ,scale is a dead issue, going nowhere, as the mfgs. continue to dodge, bob and weave on the subject with their silence and offerings. Close enough ,relative size between any model, has made me a much happier collector. I have some 6 different Shermans, 3 different Grants/Lees, 4 different Stuarts from different mfgs. over the years and they all look "pretty good next to each other.." I am not a big WW2 figure collector, but have noted that mfgs. cannot even remain consistent for size in their own ranges..That would truly frost me , if I was a dedicated to one mfg. collector, trying to mix and match my favorite guys stuff...Thanks for the past and future comparison photos, as they have been thereputic for my decision processs..Michael

 

[TomNT]

A difficult job applying the Zimmerit to that old Tunisian Tiger I. No wonder the cost has gone up so much. Plus I never knew that the Early Tiger I's had Zimmerit applied. The Film industry never seems to get the details right when it comes to the military.

I guess you can say they got it further wrong as the Tiger's depicted in Kelly's Heroes were T34 tank chassis with re-built decks and turrets to look like Tigers as opposed to the genuine Tiger K&C brought out!

Tom

 

[katana]

Communication with the manufacturers via discussions like those occuring here are conveying the dissapointment of serious and knowledgeable collectors with their failure to adhere to the proffessed scale of their products. First legion has demonstrated scale consistancy and compatability and has been sucessful as a result of this and the quality of their products. Other manufacturers are feeling the pressure of the market place to comply with these standards. The M4A3E8 series of tanks and figures from K&C seems to indicate a recognition of the need to satisfy a segment of the market seeking greater accuracy, realism and scale compliance. The direction is positive and encouraging. The discussions should continue until scale and size are no longer issues with any Toy Soldier manufacturer.

 

[jazzeum]

I think Katana had it right with his comment about planned obsolescence. Manufacturers don't necessarily want their products to be compatible with those of other companies; they want you to buy their products.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

People are entitled to their opinion as are you. If you don't like the opinions, nothing says you have to read them.

Replies to comments made by others also fall under the same rule..............Is it not ?

Wayne

 

[katana]

Courtesy and decorum make more pleasant and productive discussions. You can always agree to disagree. Posts and Replys should be respectful.

 

[maddadicus]

Communication with the manufacturers via discussions like those occuring here are conveying the dissapointment of serious and knowledgeable collectors with their failure to adhere to the proffessed scale of their products. First legion has demonstrated scale consistancy and compatability and has been sucessful as a result of this and the quality of their products. Other manufacturers are feeling the pressure of the market place to comply with these standards. The M4A3E8 series of tanks and figures from K&C seems to indicate a recognition of the need to satisfy a segment of the market seeking greater accuracy, realism and scale compliance. The direction is positive and encouraging. The discussions should continue until scale and size are no longer issues with any Toy Soldier manufacturer.

I tend to disagree with FL not playing with scale. I have seen the difference in size for figures, between historical periods and even within the separate lines where newer offerings are sized different with older pieces..My point is, no one mfg. is totally getting it 100% right..I do read all mfgs. forums, even if I have K/C glasses..Michael

 

[katana]

Madadicus; what I find disapointing is when companies are confronted with the disparity in scale between one panzer and another in the same line, they contend that their is no problem; but offer to take the item back. You had this experience with TCS and an oversize Panzer IV that dwarfed your Panther and Tiger I. The TCS Panther and Arnhem Tiger I were accurate 1/30 scale models. The Panzer IV was 1/28 scale and as I recall from you excellent comparison photos, it was significantly longer and wider than the Tiger I. How TCS could deny such an obvious decrepancy is astounding!

 

[jazzeum]

I tend to disagree with FL not playing with scale. I have seen the difference in size for figures, between historical periods and even within the separate lines where newer offerings are sized different with older pieces..My point is, no one mfg. is totally getting it 100% right..I do read all mfgs. forums, even if I have K/C glasses..Michael

I collect three ranges of FL: Civil War, Napoleonics and Seven Years War. In the Civil War and SYW range, there are no problems. They are 60 and there is uniformity in scale. Some of the older Naps are smallish but otherwise, to my knowledge, fine scalewise. I believe the issue with the Naps has been discussed before.