Ten most decisive battles in world history (2 Viewers)

[Currahee Chris]

So, what do you believe were the ten most decisive battles- not wars- in history- battles which decided the course/outcome of a war which shaped the history of humanity as we know it. Here's my list-

1.) Battle of Stalingrad- two titanic armies collide- most savage battle in most savage war in history- Germans win, Russia falls....lookout!!
2.) Waterloo- fall of an unprecedented leader
3.) Battle of Midway- probably a surprise for many of you here but I believe that this naval battle was key to the Allied effort in the pacific- I've often seen it as the stalingrad in the Pacific. This battle could have been catastrophic had the Japanese won. The key for the allies here was not to win at such a cost where they could not exploit the advantages gained through victory- the IJN was never able to recover

4.) Gettysburg- pivotal conflict in American history.

5.) Zama- All or nothing battle with two of the greatest warriors of the ancient world- Scipio and Hannibal

6.) Alesia- Casesar's crowning achievement- Gaul is subdued- sets the stage for Romanization of Europe

7.) Acre- sets a new tone for the middle east

8.) Agincourt- perhaps not a major or decisive battle per se but I believe the English longbow's dominance in this battle changed military tactics from close up and ugly to ranged

9.) Yorktowne- See #4 above

10.) the beaver wars!! {bravo}}{bravo}} For you Mark!!

Sound off fellas- let me know your thoughts!!

 

[uksubs]

Well think the Battle of Britain was a big turning point in the west and battle of Kurst as the Germans never got over it

 

[Louis Badolato]

I have to start with a statement of my viewpoint - in my eyes, the most important war for the survival of civilization as we know it in the last 2,000 years was the Allied Victory in WWII. Any other major war you can describe, be it the 7 Years War, the Napoleonic War, WWI, the Crusades, no matter who wins, human civililization continues on. If the Nazis win WWII, civilization as we know it dies. So to me, the decisive Battles of WWII are by far the most important. Chris' choices of the Battle of Stalingrad and the Battle of Midway definitely would be near the top of my list. The Normandy Invasion and the Battle of the Bulge are also critically important and would make the list.

The Battle of Britain and the battle of El Alamein would be two of the 10 most important battles in history, because without winning the first, Britain falls before the Soviets and the United States enter the war, and the Nazis win, and the second was the first time the Nazis tasted true defeat in a theater of the war.

If failing to decisively win the end game of a battle counts, then the Battle of France ending in Dunkirk could also make the list - if the Germans prevent the evacuation of the BEF, England also might fall before the Soviets and the United States enter the war.

Going to ancient times, the Battle of Thermapolae, where the Greeks ensured their culture's survival against the Persian hosts would be critically important, as a great deal of our culture stems from that of the ancient Greeks.

Also the Battle of Actium, giving rise to Octavian (later Augustus) as the first true Emperor of the Roman Empire is a naval battle that could make the list, because the Roman Empire's preservation of and additions to Greek mathematics, archetecture, science philosophy and culture are also critical to modern culture.

As I don't see victory by either side in the Napoleonic Era as having a disastrous effect on modern civilization, I would leave this era completely off my list. That being said, the Battle of Trafalgar to me is more important than Waterloo. By capturing complete dominance of the seas, Admiral Nelson ensured the eventual British triumph, demonstrating that sea power, rather than land power, would dominate modern warfare (until air power eclipsed it).

From a Euro-centric viewpoint, the Battle of Vienna, where the Christians stopped the Muslim Turks advance from overrunning Europe could make the list.

 

[BLReed]

http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/topten/index.html

 

[Rob]

Excellent post Louis, fully agree. No Battle of Britain Victory no allied victory. Great point about
Trafalgar too.

Rob

I have to start with a statement of my viewpoint - in my eyes, the most important war for the survival of civilization as we know it in the last 2,000 years was the Allied Victory in WWII. Any other major war you can describe, be it the 7 Years War, the Napoleonic War, WWI, the Crusades, no matter who wins, human civililization continues on. If the Nazis win WWII, civilization as we know it dies. So to me, the decisive Battles of WWII are by far the most important. Chris' choices of the Battle of Stalingrad and the Battle of Midway definitely would be near the top of my list. The Normandy Invasion and the Battle of the Bulge are also critically important and would make the list.

The Battle of Britain and the battle of El Alamein would be two of the 10 most important battles in history, because without winning the first, Britain falls before the Soviets and the United States enter the war, and the Nazis win, and the second was the first time the Nazis tasted true defeat in a theater of the war.

If failing to decisively win the end game of a battle counts, then the Battle of France ending in Dunkirk could also make the list - if the Germans prevent the evacuation of the BEF, England also might fall before the Soviets and the United States enter the war.

Going to ancient times, the Battle of Thermapolae, where the Greeks ensured their culture's survival against the Persian hosts would be critically important, as a great deal of our culture stems from that of the ancient Greeks.

Also the Battle of Actium, giving rise to Octavian (later Augustus) as the first true Emperor of the Roman Empire is a naval battle that could make the list, because the Roman Empire's preservation of and additions to Greek mathematics, archetecture, science philosophy and culture are also critical to modern culture.

As I don't see victory by either side in the Napoleonic Era as having a disastrous effect on modern civilization, I would leave this era completely off my list. That being said, the Battle of Trafalgar to me is more important than Waterloo. By capturing complete dominance of the seas, Admiral Nelson ensured the eventual British triumph, demonstrating that sea power, rather than land power, would dominate modern warfare (until air power eclipsed it).

From a Euro-centric viewpoint, the Battle of Vienna, where the Christians stopped the Muslim Turks advance from overrunning Europe could make the list.

 

[Mitch]

Battle of Britain was a true defeat for the german war machine.

Malta

The men and women at Bletchley played possibly the most important battle without firing a gun

Battle of the Atlantic
Mitch

 

[Currahee Chris]

initially my list had the Battle of Britain included though not sure why I dropped it- I see the BoB ranking higher than Agincourt and even Yorktowne.

I have read about two other battles in history one in France in the 800's where Charles (I think) stopped a force of Turks who were rampaging through Western Europe and then the first Byzantine jihad as well where the Byzantine's stopped a massive force of Islamic aggressors - I wanna say in 600's- maybe under the reign of Theodosius...^&confuse^&confuse

@Louis- you mention Thermopylae- certainly a worthy battle but I always felt platea was more decisive.

 

[lancer]

Some great lists here. No real way to disagree with any of them. Would like to add a couple. The Battle for Guadalcanal was a huge turning point in proving US resolve and ability to take Japanese occupied territory back. The Japanese threw a huge effort into trying to hold Guadalcanal and they still lost. It cost them a great deal. Also would like to add a battle that was really a series of battles but is all under one name, the Battle of the Marne in 1914. Hard to argue with the importance of the failure of the initial German offensive. -- Al

 

[Louis Badolato]

initially my list had the Battle of Britain included though not sure why I dropped it- I see the BoB ranking higher than Agincourt and even Yorktowne.

I have read about two other battles in history one in France in the 800's where Charles (I think) stopped a force of Turks who were rampaging through Western Europe and then the first Byzantine jihad as well where the Byzantine's stopped a massive force of Islamic aggressors - I wanna say in 600's- maybe under the reign of Theodosius...^&confuse^&confuse

@Louis- you mention Thermopylae- certainly a worthy battle but I always felt platea was more decisive.

I am not an expert on ancient times, but if I remember correctly, wasn't that when 30,000 Greek Hoplites beat more than 100,000 Persians and drove them out of Greece? If so, certainly it was a more decisive battle. Thermopylae, however, like the Battle of Britain, was a battle which, if not fought and won, might have prevented there ever being a Platea. That being said, either could make the list for the same reason: if the Greeks fall, much of modern civilization, knowledge and culture falls with them.

 

[DMNamiot]

Another great question to provoke some thought, thanks Chris.

Here is my list and some reasons ordered from oldest to newest with no thought to which is most important.

Dave

1. Battle of Carrhae 53 BC. Parthians destroy a significant Roman Army under Crassus. Throws the Roman Empire into massive turmoil.

2. Battle of Hattin 1187. Enter Saladin. The destruction of the Army of the Kingdom of Jerusalem does several things first and most significant it leads to the Fall of the City of Jerusalem and the Kingdom and to the 3rd Crusade. Enter Richard of England.

3 Battle of Bannockburn 1314. Massive defeat of England by Scotish Forces under Robert the Bruce re-establishes the Scottish Kingdom.

4. Battle of Kahlenberg 12 Sept 1683. Breaks the seige of Vienna by the Turkish Army ends their progression in Europe and pushes them back to the east.

5. Battles of Saratoga Sept - Oct 1777. Results of this fight are the defeat of the Britsh Army in the North and demonstrates to the French the significance of our resolve and brings them in as our allies. Leads to the eventual vistory at Yorktowne and the successful conclusion of the American Revolution.

6. Pennisular Campaign 1808 -1813 Battle of Vitoria ends the French Dynasty in Spain and sets up the invasion of France and eventual downfall of Napoleon.

7. Battle of Cambrai 20 Nov 1917. Major battle that is the true begining of the Modern Era of Combined Arms Warfare. The use of massed Tanks supported by Infantry and pre-registered Artillery and Air Forces was demonstrated here and was signiicantly successful. It also demonstrated the need for mobile reserves and echeloning forces into the battle.

8. Battle of Guadalcanal Aug 1942. First Major defeat of the Japanese Imperial Army in WWII. Is a major morale boost for the US and Allies. Signals the turn of the tide in the Pacific Theater.

9. Battle of the Golan Heights Yom Kippur War 1973. Israel's Battle of Britian, massive forces defeated by a tiny force of tanks in an all or nothing fight for the survival of the country.

10. The War to Combat Terror. TBD

 

[UK_BOD]

Here is my list.

Battle of Britain (1940) - Saved Western Europe from pure Evil.

Tours (732AD) Charles Martel saves Northen Europe

Midway (1942) - After this battle there was only going to be one winner

Moscow (1941-42) - The first defeat of the Nazi War Machine on Land.

Moscow (1812) - The draw at Borodino, occupation and subsequent retreat of the Grand Army.

Yorktown (1781) - The Brits under Cornwallis drop 3 points away from home and so begins the rise of the USA.

Spanish Armada (1588) - Led direcly to 350 years of the British Empire. Also brought law, the Engish Language and more importantly team sports to a good proportion of the world's surface.

Badr (624AD) - The rise of Muhammad against the Merchants of Mecca. A small battle but.....

Alesia - Caesar wins another one, but destroys Gaul and becomes master of Western Europe.

Plataea - If the Greeks hadn't have won this won there would have been no Alexander and one massive Persian Empire ready to say hi to Europe.

See what you think?

Standing by to be shot down.{eek3}

Andy

 

[Jack]

Glad to see Tours included as it doesn't often get selected despite it helping to shape Western Europe. I am surprised that the Teutoburg Forest isn't a more popular choice as it divided Europe between those who had experienced Roman rule and those who had not, a division which left a permanent divide between Latin and German Europe. It was a significant factor in the wars that followed, not the least of which were those fought in the 20th Century.

I read an article some time ago that argued that the very first weapons were wielded not by men but by women. Seeking to redress the physical power imbalance between the sexes, women made first use of rudimentary weapons, or so the article argued. So perhaps the most influential battle of all has no name and entails little more than an unknown female hitting some guy fresh from the trees over the head with a branch?

I would also like to add the eternal struggle between FL and K&C collectors as a major battle with significant casualties!

 

[Currahee Chris]

Glad to see Tours included as it doesn't often get selected despite it helping to shape Western Europe. I am surprised that the Teutoburg Forest isn't a more popular choice as it divided Europe between those who had experienced Roman rule and those who had not, a division which left a permanent divide between Latin and German Europe. It was a significant factor in the wars that followed, not the least of which were those fought in the 20th Century.

I read an article some time ago that argued that the very first weapons were wielded not by men but by women. Seeking to redress the physical power imbalance between the sexes, women made first use of rudimentary weapons, or so the article argued. So perhaps the most influential battle of all has no name and entails little more than an unknown female hitting some guy fresh from the trees over the head with a branch?

I would also like to add the eternal struggle between FL and K&C collectors as a major battle with significant casualties!

Welcome to the forum, I have no doubt you will be one of my favorite posters. {bravo}}{sm4} Teutoberg- yeah, that was one I was wrestling with as well. You certainly make a good argument.

@UKBOD (and Jack)- the battle of Tours- thank you both for your memory- that was the one I was looking for in my initial post.

@BLREED- Great list- Yorktown as #1 huh, pretty interesting. He does a far better job giving more explanation than I did. I didn't recall seeing Gettysburg on his list- Antietam was up there though- perhaps our ACW contingent can comment.

@Louis- correct about Platea- and I certainly agree with what you are saying- scary how the slippery slope of warfare touches off so many different situations.

 

[Rob]

This is a fascinating thread Chris, very interesting.

In no particular order (except the first being my personal favourite and absolutely pivotal in WW2)

Battle of Britain (ensured freedom for Europe and eventual victory in WW2)
Gettysburg (eventually gave birth to a United states that would then go on to play its vital role in the world)
Stalingrad (halted the German juggernaut in Russia)
Waterloo (brought peace to Europe-at least for a while)
Kursk
Allied advance 1918 (culminated in the end of that hideous War)

Can I give a shout out to Pearl Harbour, perhaps not a Battle as we normally know them but it brought the US into the War securing Victory for the Allies and the removal of the Nazi and Japenese curse.

Rob

 

[waynepoo]

This is a fascinating thread Chris, very interesting.

In no particular order (except the first being my personal favourite and absolutely pivotal in WW2)

Battle of Britain (ensured freedom for Europe and eventual victory in WW2)
Gettysburg (eventually gave birth to a United states that would then go on to play its vital role in the world)
Stalingrad (halted the German juggernaut in Russia)
Waterloo (brought peace to Europe-at least for a while)
Kursk
Allied advance 1918 (culminated in the end of that hideous War)

Can I give a shout out to Pearl Harbour, perhaps not a Battle as we normally know them but it brought the US into the War securing Victory for the Allies and the removal of the Nazi and Japenese curse.

Rob

Have to agree with very Battle listed by all who posted, I'll just say that Woman kinds defeat of Mankind kind trumps all !
Waynepoo.

 

[waynepoo]

Have to agree with very Battle listed by all who posted, I'll just say that Woman kinds defeat of Mankind kind trumps all !
Waynepoo.

To be a bit more serious, I think the very first ten battles ever waged would have to be the most decisive, if you think about it without the first battle happening the way it did all of history would have been different, this battle is long lost to history and I know it is a little Doc Who / Time lordish , but think about it.
Waynepoo.

 

[debrito]

There is one specific battle and siege that does not seem to be important and almost nobody talk about, it is the Fall of Constantinople 1453... Once the Turkish take over the part of the world they prohibited and close for the Europeans the route of the orient. By closing this strategically pathway s they force the European countries, special Spain, Portugal and Holland, majors’ naval powers on that time, to develop sea navigation and go around the Africa continent. Eventually the discovery of the Americas...

Concerning the Battle of Britain I don’t see as a strategic victory, but a moral one, German war machine was really defeated by the Russians....

 

[DCN1898]

Some different ones.

Thermopylae (became a standard for desperate stands through modern times)
Coral Sea. ( Along with Guadalcanal, stopped the Japanese advance)
Berlin Airlift (Not a shooting battle the most important one of the Cold War)
Borodino
Stalingrad
Battle of Britain
Saratoga AWI (showed that the American Army was viable and influence the French to take a more active role in the war.)
Antietam ( Gettysburg is also a consideration, but Antietam was first and the first repulse of the Army of Northern Virginia. It also showed the confederacy that Maryland was a Union state. The hopes for the confederacy of raising the countryside in Maryland were dashed. The Gettysburg campaign was more to destroy the Army of the Potomac, and give the Shenandoah valley a season to grow some crops.)

 

[RedBaron]

Battle of Moscow.

First time the German Blitzkrieg was stopped. Also gave the Russians the confidence and realization that the Germans could be defeated.

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

Battle of the Little Big Horn. A victory that turned into a major defeat for the American native way of life forever...

Battle of San Jacinto. A victory that ended Mexican rule in the province of Texas which paved the way to Texas independence.