The Cost of Toy Soldiers (1 Viewer)

[Njja]

Speaking strictly on the cost of Figures.......I just worked up a tenative list

of King & Country items for consideration $2176!

I would say things are going UP!

 

[Go for Broke]

When I first started collecting KC in the mid 1990's, even one purchase hurt because I didn't have much money. I probably bought 4-sets a year. The good part was they didn't release much in a year, so when they did release something I was hungry to buy something. Now I make more money, but the higher prices today and large variety of sets released in a single month still keeps me in the "wanting, but not getting much" mode. Even worse, I'm drooling over the First Legion Stalingrad germans, but with an estimated $50+ per figure, ouch, ouch, ouch. However, its way better than when I was a kid looking at the Marx playsets in the Sears christmas catalog and never got any.

 

[trooper]

Having observed on this and other threads the various comments made about the cost of figures and their availability I would like to point out that the British companies by and large have not increased their prices by any great extent over the past few years. Also, as production is done in house and not farmed out to overseas contractors, the entire ranges are always still available. I appreciate the dominance of King and Country and Britains on this forum, which is understandable as Treefrog are the main agents for these companies and they have a large customer base many of whom contribute to the forum, but there are other companies out there who operate in a different way and can provide a service for the more general collectors who are not bound to just one maker.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Having observed on this and other threads the various comments made about the cost of figures and their availability I would like to point out that the British companies by and large have not increased their prices by any great extent over the past few years. Also, as production is done in house and not farmed out to overseas contractors, the entire ranges are always still available. I appreciate the dominance of King and Country and Britains on this forum, which is understandable as Treefrog are the main agents for these companies and they have a large customer base many of whom contribute to the forum, but there are other companies out there who operate in a different way and can provide a service for the more general collectors who are not bound to just one maker.

I have always loved the hand done "cottage industry" toy soldiers and vehicles made in Great Britain, especially Trophy, Heco Tinplate and CJB Miniatures, but sadly, all three of these wonderful makers have gone out of business. After K&C, Heco and Trophy were my favorites, and I wish they were still in production.

 

[lancer]

I find that the current prices for figures is real close to my "breaking" point. With the exception of the JJD Jacobites, I am simply unable to pay much more than $30-32 per foot figure. While I love the new KC Confederate cavalry, $79 per is just too much. This means makers like First Legion are out of my reach. Only Britains seems to be staying in my league pricewise and this is helped by dealer discounts. Picking the occasional vehicle has even become a struggle as uncommitted money becomes a thing of the past. Still, I plan to hang in as long as possible even if it is on a reduced level. When I was a kid, the ultimate figure was a Swoppet at .50, which was a reach for a 12 year old kid. This hobby has sure come a long way in quality, choice, and price. BOYS AND THEIR TOYS! -- lancer

 

[theBaron]

Average cost of a Prins August mold: $20
Cost of old tire weights: $0
Satisfaction of casting your own: Priceless.

 

[tdubel]

I find that the current prices for figures is real close to my "breaking" point. With the exception of the JJD Jacobites, I am simply unable to pay much more than $30-32 per foot figure. While I love the new KC Confederate cavalry, $79 per is just too much. This means makers like First Legion are out of my reach. Only Britains seems to be staying in my league pricewise and this is helped by dealer discounts. Picking the occasional vehicle has even become a struggle as uncommitted money becomes a thing of the past. Still, I plan to hang in as long as possible even if it is on a reduced level. When I was a kid, the ultimate figure was a Swoppet at .50, which was a reach for a 12 year old kid. This hobby has sure come a long way in quality, choice, and price. BOYS AND THEIR TOYS! -- lancer

I agree here. I have backed away from a lot of single figures/calvary sets b/c of expense, look at the new calvary at 79 when General Forrest (just retired and one of the best sculpts I have) was 65 ($15 diff). I would rather "save" for the 159 landing craft, which to me is a better bargain, I would like it better at 119!

That said, take a look at the original DUK set 2 figures, large vehicle 115. Landing craft , 2 figs, large vehicle 159. There is your cost difference. about $45. The true "cost" to the hobby is to figure out if any less units are sold comparatively. IE, could more be sold at 115 vs 159< I don't know the answer. Obviously, if just as many are being sold at 159, then the hobby is thriving!

TD

 

[Russell]

Brad wrote,

Average cost of a Prins August mold: $20
Cost of old tire weights: $0
Satisfaction of casting your own: Priceless.

So Brad, are you the guy walking down the street, bending down, and snapping off the wheel weights from cars?

I mean how can you get enough of those weights to make a good number of castings?

 

[theBaron]

Brad wrote,

So Brad, are you the guy walking down the street, bending down, and snapping off the wheel weights from cars?

I mean how can you get enough of those weights to make a good number of castings?

Hi, Russell!

Although I've been known to stop when I'm out on my bike and pick up the odd weight or two, it's actually easier to ask at a garage if the owner's willing to let me collect them. Most places just throw them out, so I can give them a 5-gallon bucket and they'll fill it up.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Cardigan600]

Average cost of a Prins August mold: $20
Cost of old tire weights: $0
Satisfaction of casting your own: Priceless.

Yo Brad your real, are you sure your not a scoucer, no hang on we take the wheels, only alloy of course, providing the tyres have good treads.
Bernard.

 

[4th Hussar]

Average cost of a Prins August mold: $20
Cost of old tire weights: $0
Satisfaction of casting your own: Priceless.

Brad
You are in trouble . Our benevolent federale nannies are forcing the elimination of lead tire weights. evidently the thrown weights have poisoned rodents that live on freeway medians.

 

[theBaron]

Yo Brad your real, are you sure your not a scoucer, no hang on we take the wheels, only alloy of course, providing the tyres have good treads.
Bernard.

LOL! Good one, Trooper!

"I'm not cheap-I'm frugal!"

 

[Tony Neville]

my dad remmebrs Mars bars at 6 old pence and now they are 60 - 70p plus!!

 

[Russell]

Tony, your comment about the Mars bars made me remember chocolate bars at 10 cents and even 5 cents. Maybe the 5 cents ones were smaller. Now they're well over a dollar. This was in the mid-fifties when I was certain that little could be more important than chocolate bars, bubble gum, Dinky toys, toy soldiers, and hockey.
Philosophical discussions were my good friend Johnny and I arguing about who the best hockey player was.

 

[Currahee Chris]

Here's my two cents.

1.) I got back into collecting TS back in 2000. A KC Grunt was priced at $20 a pop (in squads of 4). Today, on average, the typical foot soldier is $30. That is a 50% price increase over ten years. In comparison, my salary in 2000 is 1/3 of what it is today- not to be arrogant- it was really the result of a couple lucky promotions and lot's of brown nosing

Some of you have mentioned the DDay landing craft from KC. I am looking at my sales receipt for my DD12 that I bought From Stockade MIniatures. I paid $125 plus tax. That is a 22% increase over ten years- that isn't unrealistic imo. If the price of the landing craft were to have followed my salary, then it would be in the $450 range!!

2.) All the toy soldier companies across the board have done a great job of leveraging technology to increase quality and minimize the cost of production. A shining example of that is The Collectors Showcase and, to a lesser extent, First Legion.

3.) All companies, whether in the service or manufacturing industry set price to generate some level of sales revenue. Typically, that includes covering their fixed costs (those costs that don't change whether they make 1 or 1,000 units- like rent), variable costs (labor, materials, used to make 1 unit) and a healty profit. Most of these manufacturers produce in the PRC so the demand for things like material and labor has increased which had led to a price increase. However, I think, and I am speculating here, that these companies, due to their concentration in the PRC, are creating an artificial cost ceiling for materials and labor used in the production of Toy soldiers.

4.) The EBay factor- let's face it- these business men are savvy folks. If I am a manufacturer and I keep seeing my sets selling for scores more on the secondary market than they were priced at retail then perhaps there is something wrong with my market demographics and I could conceivably bump my prices moderately.

Take the following example- say a typical foot soldier cost $25. I decide arbitrarily to bump my new batch of footies to $27/pop. I apply the $2 increase to ten footies and produce 2,000 units of each footie. Therefore, by bumping my price $2/figure, I essentially increase my revenue $4k (2,000x $2) Now, multiply that $4,000 over 10 figures in a range, I now have $40,000. Now multiply that $40,000 over the ten ranges I produce (WW1, WW2, Petticoats, US Navy, zulus, etc) I now have $400k more revenue and minimal cost increase as I haven't really done anything more manufacturing wise than raise the price. Not saying that is what is going on but I am trying to illustrate how a marginal increase on a per unit basis can impact a bottom line in a big way.

5.) The "Accordian" effect of cost sharing- ok- the more units a manufacturer produces, the more items he has to spread his fixed costs (utilities, rent, etc) over. This is accomplished in one of two ways:

a.) the company increases the amount of items produced- still sell a figure at $25/pop but produce 3,000 units instead of 1,000. This can be risky as the manufacturer has to hope he can sell those additional 2,000 units.

b.) increase the amount of lines available to collectors. Keep production at 1,000 units each. The manufacturer is taking a risk hoping that the new line is a hit and they can sell enough units to spread the costs.

The big guys- Britains and KC, appear to understand this and I believe they are, whether they intended to or not, more in line with option b- it's more fun I think that way anyway because you get to play around with a variety of historical periods.

In short, I continue to spend more each year and have no plans on slowing down. The collector and manufacturer are playing a game of cat and mouse- at the end of the day, the collector is paying for "quality" - whatever the collector perceives quality to be- proper uniforms, artistic painting, the figure has two arms instead of three, etc . So long as we are sold on "quality" then we will happily or begrudingly-part with our money.

Cheers
CC CPA

 

[trooper]

Chris, there are one or two flaws in your very erudite statement. First you assume that all companies go to China for production. This is false, only a handfull of companies follow this practice, among them Britains and K&C. I appreciate that they dominate this forum due to the fact that Treefrog is their main agent, but the majority of makers operate from in house. Obviously I can't speak for the American companies, but on this side of the Pond the manufacturers have kept their prices down because they do not have to order a container load of figures at any one time. They commission, or make a new figure, calculate the value in terms of metal weight etc, add on the normal overheads and profit margin and then produce the figure to demand. Also they keep that figure on their listings and I can quote you many companies that are still selling the first figures they ever produced even fifteen years ago.
Your comments about Ebay causing makers to up their prices is also incorrect. Over here the reaction is incredulity that people should pay over the odds for a figure that is still currently available at a lower price. The general reaction is "They must be potty" not "I'm going to up my prices".
Also the "In house" companies are better situated to produce new lines for the reasons stated above. They have more direct control over their products.
At the end of the day it is what you, the customer, decides to buy and it matters not whether it is a product of the "China" companies or the "House" group. As a final thought, word on the grapevine is that some of the China companies are thinking of pulling out of China and are now looking toward Bangladesh for their production.

 

[maddadicus]

Chris, there are one or two flaws in your very erudite statement. First you assume that all companies go to China for production. This is false, only a handfull of companies follow this practice, among them Britains and K&C. I appreciate that they dominate this forum due to the fact that Treefrog is their main agent, but the majority of makers operate from in house. Obviously I can't speak for the American companies, but on this side of the Pond the manufacturers have kept their prices down because they do not have to order a container load of figures at any one time. They commission, or make a new figure, calculate the value in terms of metal weight etc, add on the normal overheads and profit margin and then produce the figure to demand. Also they keep that figure on their listings and I can quote you many companies that are still selling the first figures they ever produced even fifteen years ago.
Your comments about Ebay causing makers to up their prices is also incorrect. Over here the reaction is incredulity that people should pay over the odds for a figure that is still currently available at a lower price. The general reaction is "They must be potty" not "I'm going to up my prices".
Also the "In house" companies are better situated to produce new lines for the reasons stated above. They have more direct control over their products.
At the end of the day it is what you, the customer, decides to buy and it matters not whether it is a product of the "China" companies or the "House" group. As a final thought, word on the grapevine is that some of the China companies are thinking of pulling out of China and are now looking toward Bangladesh for their production.

My collection has near 75% of the those in-house guys in it, whether it be Edmunds, Nathan Fogt and Hocker, here in the states, or Peter Tring and Mulberry Miniatures on your side of the pond. I personally seek out the unique and original style of these independents. And you are right, they are better able to hold their costs down...Michael

 

[Currahee Chris]

Chris, there are one or two flaws in your very erudite statement.

Hey- no fair using big words like that!!

I think if you read my post as a generalization rather than an absolute it has it's merits- I stand behind what I said.

Regarding the "Ebay" comment- you can call it whatever you like- perhaps "Retired" is a better term to use. I obviously cannot comment on what is going on over in EBay UK I can say that since, imo, 2004, the KC Ebay secondary market prices have gone up exponentially and that has driven up prices considerably at the shows (for retired pieces). I wasn't speaking of pieces that are still in circulation- agreed- to pay over retail price on ebay for those pieces is a little off.

The way I see it- suppose you are a manufacturer and you constantly hear and observe situations where your recently retired sets are fetching 2,3,4 times as much as they did at retail- eventually you are going to consider bumping the price up a buck or two (not 10 or 20 bucks mind you) and put some extra coin in your pocket- I certainly wouldn't blame them- they are in business to make money. It's sort of like standing around the water cooler at the office and several of your coworkers are discussing friends who are working at another company doing the same job your doing making $10k more a year. After awhile, all things constant, you are going to consider talking to your boss about a raise or perhaps jumping ship yourself. It's human nature.

Cheers and best wishes,
CC

 

[jomartvr]

Hi Guys,
The comments about the price of toy soldiers and the economy make for interesting reading. My wife and I are both professors and we have a good income, however, my money for toy soldiers also competes with books and journals that I need to purchase for my research.

From my point of view KC makes great toy soldiers, however, I am not going to pay $32.00 per figure. My problem with KC is twofold, the price is too much given what is also available on the market, and some of their toy soldiers wear composite uniforms, e.g., Hessians. By composite I mean that their uniforms do not represent a specific unit. KC's mounted figures I find expensive, however, the few that I have purchased are fantastic.

Personally, I have found great prices for Britains on EBAY, especially if one is patient. I have also been collecting John Jenkins since the beginning and his toy soldiers are an excellent value.

Lastly, I am willing to spend up to $30 per figure if they manufacturer makes units from conflicts that unusaul. For example, I am alway trying to track down Hachette's French foreign legionares. THe early ones that were made by KC are wonderful. Ok enough rambling.
Benjamin

 

[Russell]

Trooper wrote.

I appreciate that they dominate this forum due to the fact that Treefrog is their main agent,

(they being Britain and Treefrog).

I don't think that's true and if it is, I'd like some help to understand why.. I believe they dominate this forum because many active members on this forum are interested in these products. Little Legion, Bill Hocker, Tradition, Imperial, Beau Geste and others have their own headings but simply generate less interest. I say this even though I do not collect K & C and seldom buy matte figures. The only matte figures I have are from Frontline.

On the question of price, I'm already uneasy at $20.