The Evolving State of the 'Hobby' (1 Viewer)

[Arnhemjim]

Just some thoughts on the evolved/evolving hobby of collecting ‘toy soldiers’, not intended to be anything other than observations. The hobby has definitely gone through a recent significant series of changes.

• On a comparative range between classic vintage toy soldiers and connoisseur figures, current figures are predominantly a lot closer to the latter.
• The common display of figures has evolved from massed plain formations in glass cabinets to museum quality dioramas involving terrain, buildings, debris, weathering and climatic conditions.
• The limited range of stayed poses, i.e. vintage W. Britains, has evolved into extremely realistically sculpted figures.
• The evolution of scale/size from 1/32 (54mm) to 1/30 (60mm), has provided manufacturers with an expanded pallet which affords a significantly enhanced level of detail and realism.
• The predominant change from gloss finish to matte has further facilitated a greatly improved realism.
• These achievements in the hobby are not without cost. The relative cost per figure/set has greatly increased as the hobby’s population has evolved in age from young children to mature adults. In addition, and as a result of cost (exception being Bill Hocker and Imperial), the number of figures in a set has for the most part greatly decreased. These significant increase in prices may over the extended time frame somewhat reduce the number of younger individuals, as well as retired persons on fixed income, from entering or staying in the hobby.
• The classic packaging, i.e. Britains or Minot traditional bright red boxes, has evolved into a breakage/shock resistant form fitting foam combined with stronger, better engineered boxes. Obviously this has been driven by the more costly and fragile contents.
• There is a greatly increased interchange between customer base and producers, facilitated by the internet, regarding future lines, sets, and individual figures.
• Marketing/advertising has evolved from the classic (relatively prosaic) catalogs and periodic new lines brochures to regularly published slick colored brochures (dispatches).
• The past limited introduction of new sets, perhaps every other year or on significant occasion (British Coronation), stands in sharp contrast with the regular monthly introduction of new lines, sets and figures.

Would welcome any other changes that have been observed, or any other thoughts and comments.
Arnhemjim
Newly Liberated Arizona Territory

 

[Louis Badolato]

I agree with all of your observations concerning the state of the matt 1:30 scale toy soldier hobby. However, there are still plenty of excellent producers of traditional, 54mm glossy toy soldiers as well. Companies such as Beau Geste, Soldiers of the World, Bill Hocker and Imperial still produce classic toy soldiers. There is room in the hobby for both, and I enjoy both the classic glossy and the more realistic modern matt toy soldiers equally.

Your point about the expense is well taken. In the 20 years or so that I have collected toy soldiers, the price per figure has just about trippled, and the sets have shrunk from 5-6 figures to 3-4 figures in the case of most manufacturers. Today's toy soldiers are expensive collectibles for adults, not toys for children to play with.

 

[Arnhemjim]

Louis,
Totally agree with regard to gloss finished sets. Before retirement while my income was still growing, I acquired 49 sets of Bill Hockers, 36 sets of Imperials (Rorkes Drift) and 24 sets of Steadfast (magnificent Royal Horse Artillery sets). For a long time the only matt figures I had collected were individual Greenwood and Ball figures (Scottish Regiments). Since retirement I have focused my limited resources on King and Country (primarily Arnhem'44 and Market Garden series), principally due to an intense interest in the action of the British 1st Airborne Division at Arnhem. Please see the included attachments for an indication of my 'committable' versus 'outpatient' status.
Arnhemjim

 

[Louis Badolato]

Louis,
Totally agree with regard to gloss finished sets. Before retirement while my income was still growing, I acquired 49 sets of Bill Hockers, 36 sets of Imperials (Rorkes Drift) and 24 sets of Steadfast (magnificent Royal Horse Artillery sets). For a long time the only matt figures I had collected were individual Greenwood and Ball figures (Scottish Regiments). Since retirement I have focused my limited resources on King and Country (primarily Arnhem'44 and Market Garden series), principally due to an intense interest in the action of the British 1st Airborne Division at Arnhem. Please see the included attachments for an indication of my 'committable' versus 'outpatient' status.
Arnhemjim

Arnhemjim,

I got into collecting the same way: early on I focused on traditional glossy figures from Britains, Trophy, Imperial, Tradition, Tommy Atkins, Alymer, Bill Hocker, Frontline glossy and early K&C glossy figures. Then, in September, 1995, with the release of the first K&C matt Arnhem set, I fell in love, and collected only K&C from 1996 until 2004 or so. I expanded my tastes to include other excellent matt manufacturers like Honour Bound, Figarti, and John Jenkins between 2004 and the present. Over the last three years or so, Heco Tinplate Models made me fall back in love with the glossy traditional aspect of the hobby, so I have also been collecting Heco, and a few of the nicer present production glossy manufacturers, like Four Feathers.

I completely understand your love of the K&C Arnhem stuff. I have it all, including the 1:32 scale wood Horsa Glider, the wood 30 Corps Sherman, Cromwell, Bren Gun Carrier, Quad Gun & Limber, and a one of a kind resin and metal prototype of a 30 Corps Bedford QL Radio Command Vehicle. I love your collection of the real stuff. Great photos!

Regards,

Louis

 

[trooper]

Arnhemjim, I agree with all your points bar one. You imply that all manufacturers now produce 1/30th scale figures. This scale is only used by three or four makers. The vast majority still produce 54mm, 1/35th or 1/32nd scale. The huge coverage of K&C, Figarti etc on this forum over all other makers tends to skew the true picture somewhat. Great photos, good to see someone else collects militaria as well.

 

[IXEC]

The Future I see.... is a hologram type TS taking over in 10 years...you'll only need 1 figure to compute a program for a multi figure displays...you'll have full figure movement, and realistic smoke, blood and gore, right down to the screams and dying wounded. Something on the lines of the video games of today, but fully dimensional and interacting in the content.

No more static display....but real 3D, with movement....seen from any angile.... it will be as simple as putting on a pair of glasses...or looking into a glass encloser ....Even histories past newsreel will be brought to life in 3D miniature....you'll be able to add, or eliminate elements of it's content to make your own outcomes... ...


The cost....astronomical, but cheap, in say...15 years..

Who knows...

 

[uksubs]

Arnhemjim, I agree with all your points bar one. You imply that all manufacturers now produce 1/30th scale figures. This scale is only used by three or four makers. The vast majority still produce 54mm, 1/35th or 1/32nd scale. The huge coverage of K&C, Figarti etc on this forum over all other makers tends to skew the true picture somewhat. Great photos, good to see someone else collects militaria as well.

I have to agree , in my collection it mainly 1/32 & 1/35

 

[jazzeum]

Ixec's post may not be out of the realm of possibility. After all, who could have imagined 15 years ago that we could read books through a Kindle?

 

[redsoldiercollector]

I have found that I enjoy a little of all the hobby has to offer. Gloss traditional down to matt and connessiur. But, for me, the biggest thrill is the large number of painted plastics that I have ammassed by painting them myself.

 

[Currahee Chris]

I kind of feel like the hobby has really gotten an "elitist" air to it. Prices seem to be rising and the intricacies and sophistication of the figure sets seem to creating some gaps between hobbyists- nothing here that I am saying is earth shattering- this forum is littered with my brand is better than yours or this hobby is getting too expensive threads. Nothing I have seen leads me to believe that this will still be a vibrant hobby in 30 or so years. I certainly agree that this is the Golden Age of collecting but I gotta think there are certain factors out there that are outside the control of the manufacturers that will hurt the hobby.

I have found myself dropping out of more and more collections and, rather than continung to buy the latest releases of the ranges I do collect, I stand back and say "ok, that's good." and pass on further purchases. For example- In the last 5 years, I have dropped out of KC's Iwo Jima range, Britain's Knight of Agincourt range, KC's Bulge range, and all 1:18th scale figures. I like the new offerings of KC's American Revolution sets but at $33/ pop- can't do it- am happy building up the $21 figure armys but $30+ plus is out of my league. Even now, I am looking at cutting my fledgling WW1 and Ancient Greek collection.

 

[Mitch]

Currahee...

Interesting post. I think there is an air of 'elitism' around this hobby but, there is in a number of similar hobbies its down to lots of factors and price as you state is one of them. It is something manufacturers will have to deal with probably sooner than later.
Mitch

 

[Spitfrnd]

I kind of feel like the hobby has really gotten an "elitist" air to it. Prices seem to be rising and the intricacies and sophistication of the figure sets seem to creating some gaps between hobbyists- nothing here that I am saying is earth shattering- this forum is littered with my brand is better than yours or this hobby is getting too expensive threads. Nothing I have seen leads me to believe that this will still be a vibrant hobby in 30 or so years. I certainly agree that this is the Golden Age of collecting but I gotta think there are certain factors out there that are outside the control of the manufacturers that will hurt the hobby.

I have found myself dropping out of more and more collections and, rather than continuing to buy the latest releases of the ranges I do collect, I stand back and say "ok, that's good." and pass on further purchases. For example- In the last 5 years, I have dropped out of KC's Iwo Jima range, Britain's Knight of Agincourt range, KC's Bulge range, and all 1:18th scale figures. I like the new offerings of KC's American Revolution sets but at $33/ pop- can't do it- am happy building up the $21 figure armys but $30+ plus is out of my league. Even now, I am looking at cutting my fledgling WW1 and Ancient Greek collection.

With increasing sophistication of sculpting and painting comes increased expectations. Frankly I would say this is one of those everything is relative cases. Costs have increased and in many cases so has quality. Of course generally more of something you like is better but sometimes less, with better quality, is better still. Does such a preference make one an elitist; if so why? Does one become an elitist because he prefers Heineken to Bud, steak to hamburger, blu-ray to SDVD, stereo to mono, Hi Def to Standard Def, etc, etc? With every consumer purchase there are price versus quality trade offs that we all make based on our means and preferences, why should this hobby be any different.

I would prefer that figure costs were less but I am very pleased that I now have a range of price and quality choices that were not available just a few years earlier. If that means I must focus on fewer items, I am fine with that but I don't think that makes me an elitist, just yet anyway.

 

[VIRIATO]

I agree with all of your observations concerning the state of the matt 1:30 scale toy soldier hobby. However, there are still plenty of excellent producers of traditional, 54mm glossy toy soldiers as well. Companies such as Beau Geste, Soldiers of the World, Bill Hocker and Imperial still produce classic toy soldiers. There is room in the hobby for both, and I enjoy both the classic glossy and the more realistic modern matt toy soldiers equally.

I could have signed that.

Paulo

 

[VIRIATO]

With increasing sophistication of sculpting and painting comes increased expectations. Frankly I would say this is one of those everything is relative cases. Costs have increased and in many cases so has quality. Of course generally more of something you like is better but sometimes less, with better quality, is better still. Does such a preference make one an elitist; if so why? Does one become an elitist because he prefers Heineken to Bud, steak to hamburger, blu-ray to SDVD, stereo to mono, Hi Def to Standard Def, etc, etc? With every consumer purchase there are price versus quality trade offs that we all make based on our means and preferences, why should this hobby be any different.

I would prefer that figure costs were less but I am very pleased that I now have a range of price and quality choices that were not available just a few years earlier. If that means I must focus on fewer items, I am fine with that but I don't think that makes me an elitist, just yet anyway.

Yes, less is better, saves room and marriage...now that surely is an elite purpose


Paulo

 

[Mitch]

I think Currahee Chris was talking about 'elitism' in terms of higher prices making it a relatively smaller hobby that otherwise it could be. I don't think there are groups of Budweiser drinkers lording it over Heineken drinkers or steak eaters laughing at the cheap burger eaters so, jsut don't see the analogy.

I think the concern is that price is excluding many collectors who could enhance the hobby and ensure it stays vibrant. Its still a concern for a lot of people and the usual don't buy if you don't like or such like does not help and IMO confounds the 'elitist' view that many feel is attached to the hobby.

Its obvious those with the where for all will not see this as a problem and find it difficult to appreciate but, its a factor in the hobby and many speak about it
Mitch

 

[Currahee Chris]

I think Currahee Chris was talking about 'elitism' in terms of higher prices making it a relatively smaller hobby that otherwise it could be. I don't think there are groups of Budweiser drinkers lording it over Heineken drinkers or steak eaters laughing at the cheap burger eaters so, jsut don't see the analogy.

I think the concern is that price is excluding many collectors who could enhance the hobby and ensure it stays vibrant. Its still a concern for a lot of people and the usual don't buy if you don't like or such like does not help and IMO confounds the 'elitist' view that many feel is attached to the hobby.

Its obvious those with the where for all will not see this as a problem and find it difficult to appreciate but, its a factor in the hobby and many speak about it
Mitch

BINGO- We have a winner!! Thank you for putting it for more eloquently that I did.

And all apologies if I seem to be calling anyone "elitist"- that wasn't my intention. To further illustrate my point- 10 years ago we didn't have limited quantity runs either-

I do agree with many of your points Bill- quality of course always has a cost. I do appreciate the quality and the efforts that have been made in the years but I see those as a double edged sword to some degree- I would be more than happy to return back to 1999 and spend $17/ figure and sacrifice some of the quality or innovations we've seen in the past few years.

If you look at the hobby as a pyramid with a stunning piece like an HMS Victory as the pinnacle and say, pharmacy plastic bagged green GI's as the foundation, then I think we have been creeping ever higher up the pyramid and loosing collectors as we go. If I were a new entrant to the hobby today, I would see the stickers and realize I couldn't do as many eras as I did even 6 years ago- 6 one way, half a dozen the other I supposse.

And yes, for what it's worth, I have no problem slogging some Iron City, stuffing my face with cheese fries and crankin some Molly Hatchet- find that far more entertaining than sipping wine, eating caviar and enjoying Mozart.

STANDS ALONE!!
CC

 

[Spitfrnd]

I submit the bud analogy is indeed quite apt and frankly I don't think there are hordes of figure collectors of any type, much less those lording it over those who buy less figures than they do. I also don't think the pricing is excluding anyone who wants to participate at a more modest level. Those options remain, they are just different points the the supply curve, with correspondingly different characteristics. It may well be that at some point, any of us is required to purchase less than we might like but such is life and it is a choice that applies to almost any consumer product. I have seen this same discussion occur for everything from sports tickets to (yes) beer and in the end, it all comes down to the same economic realities. If there is a market for a given quality at a given price and that market can be served at that price, it will be. If not, it won't.

I hate to disagree Chris but limited runs have been a feature of just about every type of collector (and most others for that matter) market since there were collections. Sometimes they reflect a desire to increase price by creating scarity and other times they are just a function of the cash flow and capital constraints or the producers. The more challenging the economic environment, the more you are likely to see them.

There will always be extreme examples like the Victory and yes there always has been a pyramid (or different price points for different quality) but if we are moving up it then it most likely reflects cost driven changes or the indentification by suppliers of a price/quality point on the demand curve that was not being served. The first reason is a sad reality in many areas of our economy and not surprising for a product that depends so heavily on labor from an underdeveloped economy. The second reason is a good thing and more power to those that find those opportunities; they offer more options for all collectors, albeit more for some than others, depending on where the price point happens to be.

 

[Currahee Chris]

Bill- I can agree with most of your points but disagree on the limited edition run point- Pre-1990, nothing I collected had dealer imposed limitations on the quantities- something happened in the 1990's which led to this phenomenon and I think ebay has helped fuel it. I can vividly recall going into the local drug stores in the 80's and buying packs of football cards or toy stores and buying matchbox cars or whatever I was collecting at that stage in my life and not being hampered by limited edition items. Now- and maybe it was the God Forsaken Beanie Babies that fueld this limited run concept -but every "collectible" has some kind of limited run gimmick associated with it-

1.) Sports cards- they have special "rare" inserts pumped in one per pack, box, case, etc
2.) matchbox cars- limited edition for special occasions, races, etc;
3.) Barbies- limited edition for schools, outfits, etc

Toy soldiers really have two types of collectors- and they aren't mutually exclusive- more like seperate niches (I am excluding plastics and action figure types here) those who enjoy the pre 1960 era glossies, etc. These collectors are typically your retired individual who is passing their retirement reliving their childhood or simply someone who has the disposable income to acquire these sets. Then the other group is people like me who saw these figures and said- wow- this could really be cool- perhaps it's an interest in history or whatever and we jupmed in.

Anyway- my overall assessment of the hobby-
It's an aging hobby- I think given that demographic the spike in all these new companies each releasing their own lines of figures is more reflective of the baby-boomers (here in the States) being retired and having disposable income to spend on these things. It would be interesting to see if the surge in toy soldier collecting (what seems to have created this Golden Age of collecting) is reflective of more collectors or is it just the same, WW2 OCD collectors who have to have every companies Sherman, Tiger, etc. In other words- are these new companies entering the market really generating new collectors and interest in the hobby or does their product simply appeal to all collectors of a particular genre (WWS, Naps, etc) and they aren't really growing the hobby but rather generating sales simply because they make products that are in line with the flavor of the week. To me, that is the million dollar question- New blood will make the hobby grow and thrive. Over the short term, it doesn't really matter who buys the tigers, shermans, etc- but in about 20 years, and I don't mean to sound harsh, but some of the baby-boomers pass on and there isn't a new generation there to take their purchasing place, the hobby withers.

If I am a toy soldier company out there and I want to ensure survivability over the next several decades- the collectors I want to target are the 40 and under guys- guys like me, Louis, TD, Damian, etc and from my perspective, good, bad or indifferent- the prices are getting too rich for my blood and cuts have to be made.

 

[Alex]

The pinnacle for me is any italian figure kit (Pegaso for example) done and painted by a pro painter. Unique, but it comes with a hefty pricetag.

Cheers,

Alex

BINGO- We have a winner!! Thank you for putting it for more eloquently that I did.

And all apologies if I seem to be calling anyone "elitist"- that wasn't my intention. To further illustrate my point- 10 years ago we didn't have limited quantity runs either-

I do agree with many of your points Bill- quality of course always has a cost. I do appreciate the quality and the efforts that have been made in the years but I see those as a double edged sword to some degree- I would be more than happy to return back to 1999 and spend $17/ figure and sacrifice some of the quality or innovations we've seen in the past few years.

If you look at the hobby as a pyramid with a stunning piece like an HMS Victory as the pinnacle and say, pharmacy plastic bagged green GI's as the foundation, then I think we have been creeping ever higher up the pyramid and loosing collectors as we go. If I were a new entrant to the hobby today, I would see the stickers and realize I couldn't do as many eras as I did even 6 years ago- 6 one way, half a dozen the other I supposse.

And yes, for what it's worth, I have no problem slogging some Iron City, stuffing my face with cheese fries and crankin some Molly Hatchet- find that far more entertaining than sipping wine, eating caviar and enjoying Mozart.

STANDS ALONE!!
CC

 

[Mitch]

Spitfrnd...

Just for clarification I did not state Collectors in this hobby were lording it over collectors who buy less. The reply was about the analogy of beer and steaks you raised.

Currahee...

Interesting points especially, about the demographic especially age which should be attracted to the hobby. Its alright attracting the older guys but, if the younger would be collectors are driven away to other pursuits there will as you say be a void in the hobby. I do agree that there is a core of collectors who buy set after set and would think its hard not only for us but manufacturers to actually see if the demographics are actually changing.

I don't think that adding new ranges solves the issues price is key and, we have seen posts in the last few days which show how little school children know or care about History and higher prices will do even less to attract new collectors to the hobby
Mitch