Toy Soldier Trends (2 Viewers)

[Louis Badolato]

Brad,

I just double checked my LAH figures. The are marked with the registered "R" in a circle next to "K & C," then are dated "1991." Do you think it is possible that Andy would have marked them 1991 , but not released them until 1992?

Here's a quote from the book on the subject:

"The 1991-1992 Post card catalogue indicated that, available in mid-June, 1992, King & Country would release the First 3 Waffen SS sets, the First five LAH sets (with sets 6-8 available by September, 1992), the rest of the "Commemorative Editions", the 9 sets of pilots that go with the warbirds (including a Churchill Figure and a Captain Clark Gable Figure)."

According to Andy's own contemporaneous catalogue, these figures should not have been available until June, 2002, but it wouldn't suprise me if he sold them earlier then the official release date back then. K&C was such a minor player at that point that Andy would sell whatever he had on hand.

By the way I completely agree that from 1984 until around 1992 Trophy figures were superior to K&C. Heck, the first K&C Seaforths from 1984 were virtually indistinguishable from early Trophy offerings. If immitation is the sincerest form of flattery, Andy was flattering the heck out of Len. However, by 1993 I think K&C had caught up, and in some cases surpassed what Trophy was doing. Trophy made great figures, but their faces never did it for me, and I was never that big a fan of their painting style. Compare the mounted glossy Teddy Roosevelt from K&C with the standing Teddy Roosevelt figure that came with the Trophy Dynamite Gun set from about the same vintage (late 1993), and you will see what I mean.

 

[ucla1967]

When I was doing market research for the Treefrog commercial I asked an older collector who had just purchased some 60mm matte from me what he thought of glossies and if they reminded him affectionately of his toy soldiers as a boy.
He said as a kid he could never afford metal soldiers so he had no affinity whatsoever toward glossy figures and had been attracted back into the hobby by the matte figures his son collected. I thought this was quite interesting.

Not only could I not afford glossy figures as a boy, we didn't have any available in the small town in Eastern Oregon where I grew up. I saw my first new toy soldiers at Kings X near the Alamo and bought four glossy sets: three Tradition Napoleonics and an Alymer 24th Regt of foot. De gustibus non est disputandum.

 

[ucla1967]

Here's a quote from the book on the subject:

"The 1991-1992 Post card catalogue indicated that, available in mid-June, 1992, King & Country would release the First 3 Waffen SS sets, the First five LAH sets (with sets 6-8 available by September, 1992), the rest of the "Commemorative Editions", the 9 sets of pilots that go with the warbirds (including a Churchill Figure and a Captain Clark Gable Figure)."

According to Andy's own contemporaneous catalogue, these figures should not have been available until June, 2002, but it wouldn't suprise me if he sold them earlier then the official release date back then. K&C was such a minor player at that point that Andy would sell whatever he had on hand.

By the way I completely agree that from 1984 until around 1992 Trophy figures were superior to K&C. Heck, the first K&C Seaforths from 1984 were virtually indistinguishable from early Trophy offerings. If immitation is the sincerest form of flattery, Andy was flattering the heck out of Len. However, by 1993 I think K&C had caught up, and in some cases surpassed what Trophy was doing. Trophy made great figures, but their faces never did it for me, and I was never that big a fan of their painting style. Compare the mounted glossy Teddy Roosevelt from K&C with the standing Teddy Roosevelt figure that came with the Trophy Dynamite Gun set from about the same vintage (late 1993), and you will see what I mean.

Louis,

I bought my first K & C LAH set (#2) from Bob Fisher at the old Toy Soldier Home in Vista, CA on 12-28-1992 for $65. I also checked for dates on my LAH 8 set, the officer with 5 men at present arms. There is no date on the bottom of those figures.

I suspected you might agree with me regarding Trophy being superior to K & C in the early glossy days. I would also agree, that at some point in time, Andy jumped ahead and has remained there ever sense. I am just not sure if it was 1993 or not. What sets/line are you refering to?

 

[jazzeum]

The only brochure that I have for 1993 lists Napoleonics, Teddy Roosevelt and a couple of Rough Riders, three personality sets (Elvis, Chaplain and the Beatles), Seaforth Higlanders, Hong Kong Police, some early WS and LAH.

Since I think Louis mentioned the Roosevelt, I think that he was referring to that set.

 

[ucla1967]

The only brochure that I have for 1993 lists Napoleonics, Teddy Roosevelt and a couple of Rough Riders, three personality sets (Elvis, Chaplain and the Beatles), Seaforth Higlanders, Hong Kong Police, some early WS and LAH.

Since I think Louis mentioned the Roosevelt, I think that he was referring to that set.

Thanks Brad. I have seen (or owned) all of the sets you mentioned with the exception of the personality sets. I still maintain that Trophy with its Battle Dioramas and hand-to-hand sets was still ahead of K & C at that point in time. I believe that Andy achieved front-leader status after his WWII Arnheim sets.

 

[damian]

I think the breakthrough K and C stuff was actually teh Vietnam stuff. I think they were better than the Arnhem stuff and hold their own with the current stuff.
Regards
Damian

 

[Currahee Chris]

I think the breakthrough K and C stuff was actually teh Vietnam stuff. I think they were better than the Arnhem stuff and hold their own with the current stuff.
Regards
Damian

REALLY????

I gotta admit Damian, I thought the Viet Nam figs were some of the worst ones to come out. The black soldiers just fit too many negative stereotypes

I will say that, with the exception of a "Bannockburn 1314" line or something depicting the Wallace era, I would just love it if KC re-released their Nam line in the molds of the current WW2 troops- at that quality I mean.

 

[damian]

Those Arnhem figures from 1996 had hands that were a little big. I really thought that the GI with a punji stick in his bbot wiating to be airlfted out was a bit of a classic. Just a matter of tatse I suppose.
Regards
Damian

 

[Capitolron]

My thought of the "breakout" period was when Andy released the new matte Napoleonics in 2001 - Wow ! Those were head turners IMO

More detailed than the 1776 Series I was collecting.

 

[Currahee Chris]

My thought of the "breakout" period was when Andy released the new matte Napoleonics in 2001 - Wow ! Those were head turners IMO

More detailed than the 1776 Series I was collecting.

Napoleonics always turn my head too- away from them and on to something else!!

 

[Currahee Chris]

Those Arnhem figures from 1996 had hands that were a little big. I really thought that the GI with a punji stick in his bbot wiating to be airlfted out was a bit of a classic. Just a matter of tatse I suppose.
Regards
Damian

True, yeah, I forgot about him- I did enjoy the 60 gunner and the platoon leader as well- I thought they were pretty cool. I don't know, I guess it's like you said, it's all personal preference. I do remeber the viet nam figs head looking kind of like basketballs.

 

[Harrytheheid]

I will say that, with the exception of a "Bannockburn 1314" line or something depicting the Wallace era, I would just love it if KC re-released their Nam line in the molds of the current WW2 troops- at that quality I mean.

Forget the Nam. Gimme Bannockburn 1314 AND Wallace. Gimme Gimme Gimme. I want them now, yesterday would be better.....

 

[Currahee Chris]

Forget the Nam. Gimme Bannockburn 1314 AND Wallace. Gimme Gimme Gimme. I want them now, yesterday would be better.....

Can't forget the Nam here bro- too many relatives and all caught up in that one. But yeah, like I said, I want that Bannockburn 1314 and I want it NOW!!

 

[maloyalo]

I think the Toy soldier trend as a whole peaked in early-mid 60's, but started rapid decent by the late 60's. It was pretty much wiped out by late 70's. Not all countries had exact same timing, but all as best I could tell followed the trend. I remember well the drought. The length & depth of the resurgence since early 90's was quite unexpected by me. It seems mainly driven by older folks like myself, but you see some in the general toy stores & I wondered if it would re-catch on with younger folks.

So far I can't see that has happened, the fantasy figures, for lack of other term, mainly larger action-figures still holds the ring. It is interesting to see the battle of scales also. Figure licences for popular movies, are sold by scale sometimes. One company gets 12", another 6", etc. It can cause a unexpected problem sometimes. I collect the 3" Lotr figures, but larger creatures like a troll to be made in scale, would have to be about 6". But they don't have licence for 6"...

In the short term, I think some realistic soldier production probable, as long as we are around, but I can't tell if it will continue beyond. Who knows what will be going on in even 10 years ? We may end up with cast iron, carved wood, and terra cotta, in the antiques section. Not bad company really. It was a time and was a place & such will never be again.

 

[ucla1967]

The era of old toy soldiers came to an end in the mid-1960s when Britains ceased their hollowcast production. Plastic toy soldiers were available, but there was a very strong anti-military mood in the U.S. because of the Viet Nam War which hurt all "war toys." Britains did make a few metal figures with plastic parts on raised bases for the tourist market starting in about 1973. However, the new toy soldier ear is widely acknowledged to be due to the efforts of Frank and Jan Scroby of London who lived on Blenheim Road and started making new toy soldiers under that brand name. They were in business from roughly 1973 to 1982. They subsequently started Marborough Military Models whose figures are difficult to tell apart from their Blenheim origins. Andy Neilson says he received a set of Blenheim Royal Marines as a gift which kind of awakened his interest in toy soldiers. He told me the story years ago, so I hope I didn't garble it too much.

 

[Harrytheheid]

Can't forget the Nam here bro- too many relatives and all caught up in that one. But yeah, like I said, I want that Bannockburn 1314 and I want it NOW!!

Chris,
I didn't mean forget The Nam in the sense that you ought to forget or disregard the sacrifice made by your relatives or people known to you, not one little bit (we feel a bit the same about the Falklands War although we lost far fewer than you guys did in Nam). I meant forget it until we see how many other folk might be interested in B&W. One suggested new range at a time?

Probably need to be more careful the way I write these posts. Keep forgeting that no-one hears the tone of voice.

 

[Currahee Chris]

Chris,
I didn't mean forget The Nam in the sense that you ought to forget or disregard the sacrifice made by your relatives or people known to you, not one little bit (we feel a bit the same about the Falklands War although we lost far fewer than you guys did in Nam). I meant forget it until we see how many other folk might be interested in B&W. One suggested new range at a time?

Probably need to be more careful the way I write these posts. Keep forgeting that no-one hears the tone of voice.

Oh no my friend, I didn't take it all like that nor can I imagine anyone else did-I'm not sure why I said that in the first place.

But yeah, I am with you 100% we need that WALLACE line!!

 

[maloyalo]

ucla1967, I have to admit I hadn't considered metal toy soldiers. Its just my tunnel vision. I only think in plastic. I had seen Britains re-introduce metal figures again, but forgot how early that was until your post. It's interesting that two people (couple?) could have so much influence. I'm not sure plastic has anything comparable. The resurgence there seemed to pop up accross the globe simultaneously as people aged and at first was mainly a race to find all the old molds.

 

[damian]

Plarsics kept things ticking over in the 1970's and 1980's. We must give Britains credit for their Deetail range which for most children of the 1970's were the introduction to toy soldiers. Airfix with their fantastic ranges were also very important.
Regards
Damian

 

[vandilay]

I,m 35 and started out with deetail and airfix ,
For me personally I like glossy for pre ww 2 and matte
for ww 2 onwards. I wonder if the rise in matte figures
and K and C in particular has to do with their focus on
ww 2 .Locally their has been a real upsurge in interest
in both world wars in particular ,their are always very large
turn outs to anzac day parades [lots of kids aswell].
I think if brick and mortar stores die out the hobby will
be in real trouble.With out seeing these figures first hand
at a show or store the chances of looking for them on the net
must be greatly reduced.
You just cant beat seeing the figures on masse in person.