Toy Soldier Trends (2 Viewers)

[jazzeum]

Mike,

I meant the internet generally (including ebay). Being able to view all the offerings from dealer websites has probably affected the local store. If they don't have something, you have the option of getting it elsewhere.

 

[ucla1967]

Regarding the generational observation (and generalization) that younger collectors seem to have a fixation on King & Country's products to the exclusion of all others. Why would that be? Several generations collected tradition glossy figures and now, all of a sudden, the newer members of the hobby seem to have almost a disdain for anything not K & C or K & C-like. It would be one thing to have a preference for them and have them be the focus of your collection, but this kind of reminds me that although I love filet mignon, I also like pork chops, pot roast, fried chicken, etc.

I don't believe anyone would like to see the miriad of other producers go out of business because all the new guys are overwhelmingly buying K & C. We need the richness and diversity of all those other creative geniuses to keep the hobby moving forward. But this is just one 65 year-olds opinion.

 

[maddadicus]

Regarding the generational observation (and generalization) that younger collectors seem to have a fixation on King & Country's products to the exclusion of all others. Why would that be? Several generations collected tradition glossy figures and now, all of a sudden, the newer members of the hobby seem to have almost a disdain for anything not K & C or K & C-like. It would be one thing to have a preference for them and have them be the focus of your collection, but this kind of reminds me that although I love filet mignon, I also like pork chops, pot roast, fried chicken, etc.

I don't believe anyone would like to see the miriad of other producers go out of business because all the new guys are overwhelmingly buying K & C. We need the richness and diversity of all those other creative geniuses to keep the hobby moving forward. But this is just one 65 year-olds opinion.

I believe that the current generation tend to be self gratifying to the point of being mercenary in all they choose to do, including collecting toy soldiers...One has to question, whether the young's fascination with K/C has more to do with it's possible ebay value rather than whether they actually like K/c enough to even open the boxes and display them.......Michael

 

[Steven Chong]

While I will leave it to Andy and Gerard of Frontline to argue who introduced or produced realistic matt metal figures first, I think it is merely the introduction of realistic matt figures in the early 90's instead of a generational difference that created the present difference in collecting preferences. Prior generations simply did not have access to the present K&C products and all the other reasonably priced matt figures painted in China. We should also remember that even K&C started with traditional glossy figures 26 years ago.

 

[nmrocks]

Steve, you say a mouthful when you say K&C started with glossy's.
As a matter of fact, I think Andy's missing a huge opportunity by not producing glossy's with the great sculpting and color K&C always provides.
Ray

 

[Steven Chong]

... As a matter of fact, I think Andy's missing a huge opportunity by not producing glossy's with the great sculpting and color K&C always provides.
Ray

Streets of Old Hong Kong are still offered in glossy, though I tend to think the glossy figures are simply matt figures sprayed with a glossy lacquer. It would be interesting to see if any forum member would spray his matt figures to get glossy figures.

 

[Harrytheheid]

Streets of Old Hong Kong are still offered in glossy, though I tend to think the glossy figures are simply matt figures sprayed with a glossy lacquer. It would be interesting to see if any forum member would spray his matt figures to get glossy figures.

Steven,
No chance. Nothing against glossy collectors - whatever gets you through the night, but I personally much prefer the modern matt finish.
Just my opinion.

 

[Currahee Chris]

I believe that the current generation tend to be self gratifying to the point of being mercenary in all they choose to do, including collecting toy soldiers...One has to question, whether the young's fascination with K/C has more to do with it's possible ebay value rather than whether they actually like K/c enough to even open the boxes and display them.......Michael

Well, I'm not sure if I am considered part of the younger gen at 34 but in all honesty, I can say, yes, I do "EBay watch" but that has NEVER driven my decisions on what to buy or not buy. When I got back into the hobby in late 99, the dealer I was buying from had all sorts of lines- Britains, KC, Frontline, etc. Even then, I bought KC and still do and then, the Ebay fervor wasn't like it is today.

I do integrate many different companies into my dioramas so I am not exclusionary- in fact, the way it looks now, KC won't even be involved in one of my dios though that is probably due more to the fact that they do not make figures in that line I am interested in.

Bottom line, there is nothing about glossy figures that I like, well, certainly some of the sculpts are nice but to me there is just an authentic feel that is missing with glossy versus matte.

And yes, every one of my figures is forward deployed in a display case- no one is still sitting around in their boxes- to me, that is sacreligious!!

 

[jazzeum]

I'm one of those newer collectors (not younger -- I'm 56 plus) and first became interested in toy soldiers after visiting Normandy in 2004.

I first picked up a couple of Britains British paras but when I saw K and C in a local dealer's shop, I was completely blown away and the rest is history. I doubt I would have gotten involved in this hobby were it not for the matte realistic toy soldier.

Since then, I've become one of those nuts who wants to collect everything K and C and I've come to like the glossy toy soldier and I'm on the lookout for trying to pick up old K and C glossy and have started to dabble in a little non K and C gloss, but mostly to supplement my K and C. However, matte remains my primary interest.

I can't speak for other ebay buyers but I use it to expand my collection, not for speculation. I have occasionally done that with a mis-identified piece or a piece placed in a wrong category that I already have but that's the exception.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Before K&C and Frontline came out with matt figures, I had a pretty good sized (2,000+) collection of glossy figures, including a few glossy K&C figures. It took a little while to get interested in the matt figures, but matt seemed right for WWII and later wars, which involve camouflage uniforms instead of the bright colored uniforms of earlier eras (and which are a little too gritty for cute glossy figures). I still love glossy figures, and wish K&C still made glossy victorian era figures like the Seaforths, Zulus, Afghans and Camel Corps of years past. I have all of my glossy K&C on display, and would certainly buy anything glossy Andy chose to produce in future. Andy is a very smart business man, and if he sees enough interest in a subject, he might just go there. I certainly hope he will.

 

[jazzeum]

I forgot to add that I had absolutely no interest whatsoever in glossies until I helped Louis set up for the 2006 Symposium and he asked me to lay out his bands. That was the kiss of death. He has so many bands: it was just one band after another after another...

That did it for me. I really do love the glossy part of my K and C collection. Small but growing.

 

[jrsteel]

Before K&C and Frontline came out with matt figures, I had a pretty good sized (2,000+) collection of glossy figures, including a few glossy K&C figures. It took a little while to get interested in the matt figures, but matt seemed right for WWII and later wars, which involve camouflage uniforms instead of the bright colored uniforms of earlier eras (and which are a little too gritty for cute glossy figures). I still love glossy figures, and wish K&C still made glossy victorian era figures like the Seaforths, Zulus, Afghans and Camel Corps of years past. I have all of my glossy K&C on display, and would certainly buy anything glossy Andy chose to produce in future. Andy is a very smart business man, and if he sees enough interest in a subject, he might just go there. I certainly hope he will.

I think if K&C came out with a series of gloss figures they would sell well. I know you guys don't follow Britains but their new gloss series have been very successful. Their Indian Mutiny series looks great and I think it's going to be popular.

 

[damian]

I don't get hung up about matt or gloss. I love them both always have. You canot beat gloss for nostalgia and you cannot beat matt for realism.
Regards
Damian Clarke

 

[jazzeum]

JR,

I saw an article in Toy Soldier about two months ago about a forthcoming Indian series. Don't know if it was the Mutiny series but it looked great.

 

[maddadicus]

Before K&C and Frontline came out with matt figures, I had a pretty good sized (2,000+) collection of glossy figures, including a few glossy K&C figures. It took a little while to get interested in the matt figures, but matt seemed right for WWII and later wars, which involve camouflage uniforms instead of the bright colored uniforms of earlier eras (and which are a little too gritty for cute glossy figures). I still love glossy figures, and wish K&C still made glossy victorian era figures like the Seaforths, Zulus, Afghans and Camel Corps of years past. I have all of my glossy K&C on display, and would certainly buy anything glossy Andy chose to produce in future. Andy is a very smart business man, and if he sees enough interest in a subject, he might just go there. I certainly hope he will.

I am somewhat with Louis on this one......Colonial period, ACW ,Napoleonics, all seem right for gloss, but WW2 Armor and figures seem a perfect fit for matte...My only deviation from this rule of choice is that I started Nappy gloss, but since drifted into matte finish, because that is what my friend from Mulberry mostly does now........Michael

 

[ucla1967]

While I will leave it to Andy and Gerard of Frontline to argue who introduced or produced realistic matt metal figures first, I think it is merely the introduction of realistic matt figures in the early 90's instead of a generational difference that created the present difference in collecting preferences. Prior generations simply did not have access to the present K&C products and all the other reasonably priced matt figures painted in China. We should also remember that even K&C started with traditional glossy figures 26 years ago.

Although it is cerainly not scientifically provable, I am convinced that younger collectors seem to have a preference for King & Country, specifically, and realistic, matte figures, in general. I started collecting in the early 90s when the only matte finished figures were very expensive offerings from Russia. I started buying the more affordable matte products from China when they first came out, but at least half of what I buy is glossy. The glossy Imperial and Trophy figures I have are far superior to any of my early glossy K & C or Frontline. However, I am aware that K & C glossies have shot up in price far beyond any rational, intrinsic value they may possess vis-a-vis the aforementioned brands.

 

[jazzeum]

Mike,

You may be right about Trophy or Imperial being superior to early K and C (I will leave it to others like Steven and Louis who are far more qualified than me to debate the point).

The reason they have shot up in price is fairly obvious (at least to me). People who have been attracted to collecting the WW II matte figures have then gravitated to earlier K and C, perhaps because they've collected all the retired WW II or because they've just want to have all the K and C they can or both.

I know that applies to collectors like me and Louis and I'm sure it applies to many others. I've seen bidders who just bid on WW II start to move into other K and C areas.

 

[ucla1967]

Mike,

You may be right about Trophy or Imperial being superior to early K and C (I will leave it to others like Steven and Louis who are far more qualified than me to debate the point).

The reason they have shot up in price is fairly obvious (at least to me). People who have been attracted to collecting the WW II matte figures have then gravitated to earlier K and C, perhaps because they've collected all the retired WW II or because they've just want to have all the K and C they can or both.

I know that applies to collectors like me and Louis and I'm sure it applies to many others. I've seen bidders who just bid on WW II start to move into other K and C areas.

Brad,

I don't disagree with anything you said. It just seems that there is, to borrow Alan Greenspan's term, an irrational exuburance when it comes to King & Country. When Andy was producing fairly undistinguished glossy sets which were not much different from the competition, Trophy was churning out unique hand-to-hand sets and battle dioramas (e.g., Durnsford's Last Stand, the Lost Gun, the Quartermaster Says No, etc.). These were the forerunners of the realistic, animated style which is now epitomized by K & C's 60-mm, matte output.

 

[OzDigger]

The reduced popularity of glossies was inevitable simply because initially they were mainly collected by guys who had glossy toy soldiers as a kid and wanted to relive those days and as they died they weren't being replaced.

Later, Britains subsequently reintroduced glossy "collectable" toy soldiers to capture some of the money these guys were spending on the long out of production toy soldiers they found at swap meets etc. These collectable glossy sets were still considered to be the domain of the older collector or those younger collectors brought under their evil influence

However the vast majority of guys brought up on making plastic model kits and playing with realistic plastic army men had no interest in glossies whatsover. Personally I had absolutely no intention of EVER buying metal soldiers until I saw how well detailed the King & Country matt figures were (their polystone vehicles being another issue )

Therefore I feel K & C has actually increased the popularity of glossies because their matt figures have attracted many of the younger generation back to the ancient hobby of toy soldier collecting. Simply because (for some strange reason imo) some of these newer matt collectors find the glossies attractive and buy some of them as well. Not me though, you'll never catch me in your glossy conspiracy

Of course other more experienced toy soldier collectors have noted that there were a few matt manufactures before K & C but the global distribution of K & C has ensured most newbies like me noted their figures first.

 

[Warrior]

I remember going to the Valley Forge show about 10 years ago and seeing all the glossy Imperial, Tradition, Britains, etc on all the tables. The one table I was attracted to was the K & C one (back then, Andy used to go to the VF Show) with the Matte finished figures.

I remember commenting to the dealer I was with on the way home about how terrific I thought the matte finished figures looked and why don't more companies do matte finished figures and his response ws somethig to the effect of "Those will never catch on, collectors want glossy figures like the ones they had as kids", which is what Oz pointed out.

Boy was he wrong........................