UK Cost of New Napoleonic Lines (1 Viewer)

[The Military Workshop]

Dear Aussie Monty,
You commented above :
"But as you are in the business of selling figures and I am in the business of buying them, a shorter production run will add value to the sets and is a good thing for collectors, not so much for dealers and if prices come down a bit also, win win for me. It will add value to the sets and may make buying it at the price worth while".
Yes I am a seller but anybody looking at your current multiple Ebay listings (in excess of A$8,000), prices realised, and sales might perhaps be forgiven for thinking you are also in the business (albeit not full time) of selling figures.
Nothing wrong in being a trader but I think it fair to say you are not just a collector as you appear to imply.
Regards
Brett

 

[Aussie Monty]

Dear Aussie Monty,
You commented above :
"But as you are in the business of selling figures and I am in the business of buying them, a shorter production run will add value to the sets and is a good thing for collectors, not so much for dealers and if prices come down a bit also, win win for me. It will add value to the sets and may make buying it at the price worth while".
Yes I am a seller but anybody looking at your current multiple Ebay listings (in excess of A$8,000), prices realised, and sales might perhaps be forgiven for thinking you are also in the business (albeit not full time) of selling figures.
Nothing wrong in being a trader but I think it fair to say you are not just a collector as you appear to imply.
Regards
Brett

Brett,

You are right, I was a bit surpriced myself when I added my listings up, approx $5,500 USD ($8,500 AUD).

I am a seller & a buyer, as are a great number of members & collectors on this forum.

I usually buy 2 to 3 times the number of sets I want, usually limited or retired or special sets and hold them anywhere from 1 to 12 months depending on there status. I then sell the extra sets to be able to continue adding to my private collection without going into my pocket.

Of cause I do sell them for more than I paid for them, depending on the old supply & demand thing again.

This is no great news, as I have stated the above a number of times on this forum under the John Jenkins Section.

I am very sorry if I upset you with my comments, was not personnal or a attack on you or dealers. Retail prices are set by manufactures not dealers.

If you have anything else you want to discuss, send me a private message.

Oh yes, please check out my listing on eBay for anyone interested in Retired AWI K&C and Retired John Jenkins Sets (eBay Name - ajm2110). I just had to get the free add in there.

 

[Tony Neville]

I have just looked at the K&C UK website and the new Lancers and Scotts Grey cavalry are GBP 78.25 !!! This is against GBP 50.84, which by my accounts is a huge increase.

Oil and raw materials have fallen significantly; rising unemployment in China must be depressing wages and deflation is appearing. I am no economist but these prices seem out of sync.

Great dispatches but 2 lancers = 3 old chaussers; less good

Hey gazza

Thanks for looking at the site and sorry no pictures yet.................been a bit busy with the Busiest Toy soldier show in the world in December!! I will get them up ASAP

re the pricing..................we buy from HK in HKD$ and in the last three months there have been the largest drops in the UK$ against the US$ (for which the HKD$) is tagged. I beleive (will check the sums when at work tommrow as just woken from a nap having just driven 6 hrs back from London) there has been a drop by as much as 30%

So £UKP has deopped, factories are nervous and have NOT past on any (if any) of the commodity price reduction. China labour has in fact INCREASED not decreased and there is even talk of China adding a 20% surcharge on production costs.................yes bite the hand that feeds them China!!

I can assure you that there is always a long debate by myself and Mike before we publish a price. And often it comes down to after we have paid HK, HMC&E, TAX's, shipping companies etc etc how much do we reduce our GP%. And now we reduce our GP% by more than we have ever done in the 14 years we have sold K&C

Just read this post a couple fo times Gazza and dont want you thinking i am having a pop as iam not!! just the K&CUK is a very small one and mine and Mikes slice is a very small and ever decreasing one!

Tony

 

[Wraith]

Guys!

If you want a price drop, start boycotting K&C figures now!!!

Not particularly helpful.
If you're going to boycott K&C, where else are you going to go for future purchases? Figarti? Conte? Honour Bound? Collectors Showcase?
To name but a few. Check the prices of the other companies as they are now, versus a year or two ago. All have had to significantly increase the cost of their figures / pieces, so to isolate one company for criticism is a little rich.

 

[Gazza]

Tony

I do not think for one moment you are having a pop; far from it, you are simply responding to my query.

From my side it was not a dig at K&C UK either, more a question on rationale for pricing.

I only started collecting in the summer and plan to continue and you will still have my business; including some Polish lancers, once I can get to see them in person (sorry I missed the show, mince pies and whiskey !!!)

Cheers

Hey gazza

Thanks for looking at the site and sorry no pictures yet.................been a bit busy with the Busiest Toy soldier show in the world in December!! I will get them up ASAP

re the pricing..................we buy from HK in HKD$ and in the last three months there have been the largest drops in the UK$ against the US$ (for which the HKD$) is tagged. I beleive (will check the sums when at work tommrow as just woken from a nap having just driven 6 hrs back from London) there has been a drop by as much as 30%

So £UKP has deopped, factories are nervous and have NOT past on any (if any) of the commodity price reduction. China labour has in fact INCREASED not decreased and there is even talk of China adding a 20% surcharge on production costs.................yes bite the hand that feeds them China!!

I can assure you that there is always a long debate by myself and Mike before we publish a price. And often it comes down to after we have paid HK, HMC&E, TAX's, shipping companies etc etc how much do we reduce our GP%. And now we reduce our GP% by more than we have ever done in the 14 years we have sold K&C

Just read this post a couple fo times Gazza and dont want you thinking i am having a pop as iam not!! just the K&CUK is a very small one and mine and Mikes slice is a very small and ever decreasing one!

Tony

 

[Oliver Cromwell]

K and C very high costs I can live with just . What I cant live with is the quality which is obviously deteriorating, Andy is taking us for fools the recent paint Jobs are awful, The ultra nice neville family are trying to keep a straight face whilst we get fobbed of with inferior design and finish put the price up by all means if you must, but get the products right first.

The new lancers have 3 officers out of 7 items ???? stupid they are very poor however The worst figures in the range are the Highlanders

Not enough Coldstream Gaurds as someone else posted some time ago not enough or sufficiently varied positions to form a square.

The Scots Greys are good and the finish is superior to any of the other mounted units.

Not enough fighting men ! Too many Scottish units ! I had a sneaky look at the first legion stuff far superior and better quality ( and cheaper ) If you dont like paying the prices wait 3 months until first legion get rolling and E bay will be full of unwanted K & C figures dump them now whilst you still can

K & C day in the sun may be over, for Napoleonics anyway. WW2 stuff is good enough, which is why Nielson is focussed on it he knows he has not got the skill to compete with 1st legion.

Look at the paint job on the scots grey officer gone downhill big time

Civil War lets hope 1st legion give K & C the kick inthe rear they needed long overdue IMO

This may not get posted to honest an opinion

Happy Collecting

 

[Tony Neville]

Hi Oliver Crom

Welcome to the Forum Nice to have a straight point of view!

Tony 'the nicest of the nice' Neville

 

[Helldiver]

K and C very high costs I can live with just . What I cant live with is the quality which is obviously deteriorating, Andy is taking us for fools the recent paint Jobs are awful, The ultra nice neville family are trying to keep a straight face whilst we get fobbed of with inferior design and finish put the price up by all means if you must, but get the products right first.

The new lancers have 3 officers out of 7 items ???? stupid they are very poor however The worst figures in the range are the Highlanders

Not enough Coldstream Gaurds as someone else posted some time ago not enough or sufficiently varied positions to form a square.

The Scots Greys are good and the finish is superior to any of the other mounted units.

Not enough fighting men ! Too many Scottish units ! I had a sneaky look at the first legion stuff far superior and better quality ( and cheaper ) If you dont like paying the prices wait 3 months until first legion get rolling and E bay will be full of unwanted K & C figures dump them now whilst you still can

K & C day in the sun may be over, for Napoleonics anyway. WW2 stuff is good enough, which is why Nielson is focussed on it he knows he has not got the skill to compete with 1st legion.

Look at the paint job on the scots grey officer gone downhill big time

Civil War lets hope 1st legion give K & C the kick inthe rear they needed long overdue IMO

This may not get posted to honest an opinion

Happy Collecting

Good post Oliver - I often wonder how K&C UK can charge £78 for the new 2 man FJ mortar set when that works out at £28 for each figure and £22 for the mortar!!!! I know the £ has gone down in value but not that much, inflation is supposed to be decreasing here in the UK but K&C UK seem to be bucking the trend there! My orders here in the UK have now dropped to zero and I buy all from the USA where despite the low value of the £ I am still better off!

 

[Tony Neville]

Hi Hell Diver

Take the price we get from K&C, Add VAT, Import Duty, Shipping, the slide in the HKD$ which is what we buy in (25% in the last 6 - 8 weeks) and then pay my over heads and see if you can make a profit!!??

Tony

 

[Helldiver]

Hey gazza

Thanks for looking at the site and sorry no pictures yet.................been a bit busy with the Busiest Toy soldier show in the world in December!! I will get them up ASAP

re the pricing..................we buy from HK in HKD$ and in the last three months there have been the largest drops in the UK$ against the US$ (for which the HKD$) is tagged. I beleive (will check the sums when at work tommrow as just woken from a nap having just driven 6 hrs back from London) there has been a drop by as much as 30%

So £UKP has deopped, factories are nervous and have NOT past on any (if any) of the commodity price reduction. China labour has in fact INCREASED not decreased and there is even talk of China adding a 20% surcharge on production costs.................yes bite the hand that feeds them China!!

I can assure you that there is always a long debate by myself and Mike before we publish a price. And often it comes down to after we have paid HK, HMC&E, TAX's, shipping companies etc etc how much do we reduce our GP%. And now we reduce our GP% by more than we have ever done in the 14 years we have sold K&C

Just read this post a couple fo times Gazza and dont want you thinking i am having a pop as iam not!! just the K&CUK is a very small one and mine and Mikes slice is a very small and ever decreasing one!

Tony

Just a question here Tony - when the £ was at an all time high against the $ a few months ago I did not notice K&C UK dropping their prices! If its such a big issue with the value of the $ why don't you guys start selling in US $ or give customers the option?
I don't think your prices would stack up though in a straight comparision with US dealers if you guys did that though. Theres no export tax for goods exiting HK far as I know and you claim VAT back from HM customs when you pass it onto the customer here. Don't they have tax in the US as well? Don't see their goods at anywhere near the price of yours though. Most businesses here in the UK will be lucky to survive the next few months - its not about profit anymore - its about surviving.
Nothing personal here but a few observations thats all and I welcome any debate on the issue.

HD

 

[Helldiver]

Hi Hell Diver

Take the price we get from K&C, Add VAT, Import Duty, Shipping, the slide in the HKD$ which is what we buy in (25% in the last 6 - 8 weeks) and then pay my over heads and see if you can make a profit!!??

Tony

OK send me the address of the K&C factory in China, I will pop over and see if they can run me up a little production run of FJ's!

 

[Tony Neville]

HD

Good observations!

However.............. The US dealers buy in US$ direct from HK so they do not have the issue we have, with Currency fluxuation.

Why dont we sell in US$.........thats obvious! the UK currency is the Pound.

VAT is a legal taxation that yes may be claimed back but we still have to charge it as a registered VAT company. Name a company that is working in the UK that is VAT registered that does not charge VAT?? We have to charge it on our sales, but we claim it back on purchases..........this one you will need to pick up with Her Majesty or that Idiot Gordon Brown!

Export from HK depends on the commodity code number issued by HM customs on the many thousands of differnt items leaving HK.

Do prices drop when the $goes up..............no but you dont see the older items go up in price either. So there are plenty of items on our shelves at lower prices.

USA taxation is a total different ball game. There is no import duty into the states, delivery charges are lower, and there is no exchange rate cost on a transfer when they buy. So you are right there our prices would not stack up against a US dealer............as basically they carn't!

Oh unless your a part time evilbayer with no over heads dont pay tax and have stock as and when.

Interesting debate.........
Tony Neville

 

[Rob]

K and C very high costs I can live with just . What I cant live with is the quality which is obviously deteriorating, Andy is taking us for fools the recent paint Jobs are awful, The ultra nice neville family are trying to keep a straight face whilst we get fobbed of with inferior design and finish put the price up by all means if you must, but get the products right first.

The new lancers have 3 officers out of 7 items ???? stupid they are very poor however The worst figures in the range are the Highlanders

Not enough Coldstream Gaurds as someone else posted some time ago not enough or sufficiently varied positions to form a square.

The Scots Greys are good and the finish is superior to any of the other mounted units.

Not enough fighting men ! Too many Scottish units ! I had a sneaky look at the first legion stuff far superior and better quality ( and cheaper ) If you dont like paying the prices wait 3 months until first legion get rolling and E bay will be full of unwanted K & C figures dump them now whilst you still can

K & C day in the sun may be over, for Napoleonics anyway. WW2 stuff is good enough, which is why Nielson is focussed on it he knows he has not got the skill to compete with 1st legion.

Look at the paint job on the scots grey officer gone downhill big time

Civil War lets hope 1st legion give K & C the kick inthe rear they needed long overdue IMO

This may not get posted to honest an opinion

Happy Collecting

Welcome to the forum.Nothing like a straight to the point post to get you started!.

I don't think the Nevilles have much control of the quality of the figures nor much to say about pricing really,shame as i could get Tony to knock a few more quid off for me..I'm no expert on Naps you understand but the guards look good to me,and to be honest you are never going to get all the different positions you want in one or two releases,these things have to be built up.And for guys in this country ordering from abroard,it all seems cheaper but if you've got a problem with the product itself then returning it can be a nightmare.Also everytime i've ordered from abroard i always get stung by good old British customs who tend to kill the enjoyment etc.

Sounds like you are a big fan of first legion and their figures do look really good,must be the first time i've heard one member urging the others to 'dump' their figures though.

Rob

 

[Tony Neville]

OK send me the address of the K&C factory in China, I will pop over and see if they can run me up a little production run of FJ's!

HD

speak to Andy Neilson or Helen Mok and see if they will take you??

Good luck

 

[Helldiver]

HD

speak to Andy Neilson or Helen Mok and see if they will take you??

Good luck

I did - still waiting for a reply on that one!

 

[Helldiver]

HD

Good observations!

However.............. The US dealers buy in US$ direct from HK so they do not have the issue we have, with Currency fluxuation.

Why dont we sell in US$.........thats obvious! the UK currency is the Pound.

VAT is a legal taxation that yes may be claimed back but we still have to charge it as a registered VAT company. Name a company that is working in the UK that is VAT registered that does not charge VAT?? We have to charge it on our sales, but we claim it back on purchases..........this one you will need to pick up with Her Majesty or that Idiot Gordon Brown!

Export from HK depends on the commodity code number issued by HM customs on the many thousands of differnt items leaving HK.

Do prices drop when the $goes up..............no but you dont see the older items go up in price either. So there are plenty of items on our shelves at lower prices.

USA taxation is a total different ball game. There is no import duty into the states, delivery charges are lower, and there is no exchange rate cost on a transfer when they buy. So you are right there our prices would not stack up against a US dealer............as basically they carn't!

Oh unless your a part time evilbayer with no over heads dont pay tax and have stock as and when.

Interesting debate.........
Tony Neville

Well put mate - have you thought of setting up in the USA?!

 

[Tony Neville]

I did - still waiting for a reply on that one!

HD

there is already a UK company that has tried that!!! they are no longer running!

Tony

 

[Tony Neville]

Well put mate - have you thought of setting up in the USA?!

HD sometimes think that would be easier and if my kids had their way it would be in Florida! but then again my good friends Bill Sager and Tim Tyler are down there! And if i had my way it would be on the west coast But again i work with Mike and thats his patch!! lol

Tony

 

[The Military Workshop]

I noted Oliver Cromwell joined the forum with muskets blazing !

Firstly welcome to the Forum but a few volleys in response to your comments :
OC
"What I cant live with is the quality which is obviously deteriorating, Andy is taking us for fools the recent paint Jobs are awful"
TMW
If the quality is so obviously deteriorating then it seems strange most other collectors have not noticed. With all the threads about pricing I don't recall anybody mentioning quality going down. I guess we all must be fools not to have noticed what you have.
OC
"The worst figures in the range are the Highlanders".
TMW
I will be upfront and confess to being a retailer and I also collect Napoleonics (I am from UK originally). Again strange that most other collectors have not noticed this. Given a choice from the Allied side of Black Watch, Coldstream Guards, Kings German Legion or Russians then my experience is the new collector will, in the great majority of cases, go for the BW.
OC
"Not enough Coldstream Gaurds as someone else posted some time ago not enough or sufficiently varied positions to form a square".
TMW
Yes I guess you are right that there are only 12 CG's. If they had done 13 would that have satisfied you ?
OC
"Too many Scottish units !"
TMW
What is the problem with that ? They have great uniforms and were at many of the most famous battles. Have a look at the great military art on the Cranston web site and you will see the Scottish regiments are featured in far greater proportion than the English Regiments relevant to population/army size. Great fighters and better having them overseas killing other enemies rather than fighting the English at home !
OC
"I had a sneaky look at the first legion stuff far superior and better quality ( and cheaper )"and "If you dont like paying the prices wait 3 months until first legion get rolling"
TMW
I have never seen First Legion in the flesh but agree the quality looks very good. However their web site indicates a rifleman is US$39.95 and officers $44.95 so can hardly be considered cheaper than K&C in US$'s whose most recent Napoleonic infantry were US$32 (a 25% difference). You can still buy Black Watch for US$24. In addition the opportunity to see First Legion in shops anywhere is very limited so I would also love to see them "get rolling"
OC
"K & C day in the sun may be over, for Napoleonics anyway. WW2 stuff is good enough, which is why Nielson is focussed on it he knows he has not got the skill to compete with 1st legion"
TMW
For somebody who seems to have something against Scots and K&C it is good that you can know what Andy N of K&C knows. I love Napoleonics but anybody who knows the Toy Soldier or militaria market will know there is far more interest in WWII than Napoleonics.
OC
"This may not get posted to honest an opinion"
TMW
The above is just my honest opinion too.

Since you have obviously don't like K&C and their Napoleonics I suggest you follow your own advice and sell any you have on Ebay (or list them in the Classifieds section in this Forum where I am sure they will go fast). It may make you happier than you seem to be now.

Hopefully you noted there is an area for First Legion fans in this Forum.

Happy Collecting
Regards Brett

 

[maddadicus]

I do not mind an open debate on quality and pricing for any mfg. and speaking as a collector, with only 15% K/C, one becomes suspicious over a newbie, whose first forum words, are not " HI, I AM NEW HERE" ,but is a full rant against a mfg. that may not be my favorite, yet they deserve a much fairer review...My first inclination would be another mfg. toadie, or what we call a hit and run flamer has made his way to the forum..( could it be Andy secret posting, to feel out what members really think ? )..Thanks,Michael