Under Two Flags (1 Viewer)

[The Major]

We saw clearly the U2F Elephants for sale "painted" by RP Model World. WE OWN ALL copyright for U2F Figures. Full stop. i wish they would bloody "stop". This brings to TWO the number of rogue UK "retailers" ripping off our products. First Fropme model centre in Somerset stole some Chota sahib sarum, now Bob and jane Perati are ripping of U2F !!!!! BLOODY INDUSTRY happy new year to you lot too Ouefffff

 

[tdubel]

I have to comment here. I own the original Steadfast Elephant Gatling Gun set. RP World Models and Bob Prati have owned/sold the Steadfast moulds for going on about forever since Borbour Enterprises. I also own the "RP Models" version. I can confirm these are Steadfast not Under Two Flags. You may ask why I can confirm this, because I also own the Original Under Two Flags set in the original box which I bought directly from Under Two Flags. They are categorically different elephants and different sets. Same theme, but different figures/elephants

I understand your frustration, the NZ Family really screwed up a ton of stuff, ruined brands and I applaud you in earnest from trying to resurrect the dead, I am a fan and will be buying product from you.

That said, I just wanted to point out that RP has always been first class and have had the Steadfast line for a long time. Also, Bob is retired and no longer on the day to day there, I have been a customer of his for a long time.

Tom

 

[The Major]

We bought the Under Two Flags figure range from Abram and Ana Simon a year or so ago now. Just last week I started to cast in Metal some of their infantry figures. I have started to paint them ready for use by us as "display models. We have camel riders, Egyptian and Sudanese Infantry and Lancers among them.

 

[The Major]

I have to comment here. I own the original Steadfast Elephant Gatling Gun set. RP World Models and Bob Prati have owned/sold the Steadfast moulds for going on about forever since Borbour Enterprises. I also own the "RP Models" version. I can confirm these are Steadfast not Under Two Flags. You may ask why I can confirm this, because I also own the Original Under Two Flags set in the original box which I bought directly from Under Two Flags. They are categorically different elephants and different sets. Same theme, but different figures/elephants

I understand your frustration, the NZ Family really screwed up a ton of stuff, ruined brands and I applaud you in earnest from trying to resurrect the dead, I am a fan and will be buying product from you.

That said, I just wanted to point out that RP has always been first class and have had the Steadfast line for a long time. Also, Bob is retired and no longer on the day to day there, I have been a customer of his for a long time.

Tom

Many thanks tom for the reply and clarification. I just put up the photos we found of the Elephant train and some U2F Colonial soldiers. We got the moulds for those, i just took a peek two days ago in the lock up. Thanks too for your supporting words re trying to err "ressurect the dead" ahem...yes, sorting out the thousands of castings chucked into freezer bags has proved let us say, "somewhat high on content". wink

 

[The Major]

I cast the Colonial Infantry just before Christmas. Im waiting for a shipment of Metal from the North to go ahead with our first large scale (ie for sale to clients) production run (including a lot more models to have to paint as display or samples. I have no "truck" over RP Models quality or selection (save Bob and patrick Willis "lost" two moulds from the ex Sarum Series which JD had sent there for repair just before we bought Sarum Studio Figurines and Chota Sahib from P JD back in 2009. RP are magnus Lundstrums casters and toolers. i DO i have to say have a issue re magnus, as he was selling anumber of our ex Sarum and Chota figures (we downloaded and printed them years back) from his Stockholm "London" site. Abram also had issues re magnus too. Sadly (if what we are all told remains "truth") Abram passed away in 2003. But i have to comment here too and say THEREIS NOT A SINGLE official piece of material evidence that states the guy is dead. I wrote to N Z Internal affairs re this last year; And his facebook site was still in regulr use for MONTHS err after Abram was err meant to have passed away, so you can taste our frustrations a bit.

 

[The Major]

Perhaps I might be about to err "ressurect the dead" in a more literal sense of the phrase? His wife (if it was his wife because when we replied "address does not exist ! @@ ! tried to sell us the rest of Fler baix T S. Including "victorian artillery" made up at least in part of Mountford products "already supposedley sold in "the complete range" (Abrams words not ours) to us in 2023;

I have written also to N Z Police asking question, because cargo was pilfered, possibly actualy AT the Simons home or outside, before being shipped to us here. When the pallets were unloaded by bonded transport here, we found the whle load of Moulds "turned upside down" and all muddled up. And "some" missing items. (Grrr). Recorded delivery corrspondence to the Simons met a wall of silence (little surprise really).
So we DO NOT BELIEVE THIS MAN IS REALLY DECEASED only done a bunk with our Money...without selling us anywhere "near" what was agreed in our dealings.

So what we "saw" was i am sorry to have to state "not what we got" from them. HOWEVER I mean, they "kept back" several Mountford Artillery products which were on the sold list to us, andwhich were previously part of the Mountford range. The etat de lieu of the inventory was to say the very least, "Poor". And all the masters and "stock" were castings bunged togehter in a frightfull mess.

Heavy metal ressurection Shuffle? Ressurrection? Grr i tell you, IF it turns out hes run away, I have some hard question for him !!!!

 

[The Major]

The Under Two flags Elephant gattling Gun set, which is a photo from a n other on this forum. These are however exactly the same models we have here in "Mould" tool form. Though the kaput guys have i mmust state, written bodgy lables in Tipex on many Moulds, we have so far identified several actual U2F sets labeled as err "Rosedale" and vice versa. Same goes for EVRYTHING else sighhhh

 

[The Major]

We got SIX Different Elephants all together. 2 U2F ones, 2 Rosedale ones, and also Including the David James Love Elephant and baby) With original U2F Catalogue and Older U2F photos of the gattling Gun set identical in Model form to the set in the photo above.Hope this helps.
The thought comes to mind we purchased the err "White Elephant" also? lol.
So thats 7 elephantine sized issues including Mr White Elephant.

 

[The Major]

We can recognize Mountford (Ex david james Love) by the quality and design of toolings. However the kaputniks mixed up the surviving) Rosedales with Jock and Ruby Coutts Under two flags range and Mould toolings. This has continued to be a cuase of some annoyance, frustration, and a lot of lost time back tracking to correctly identify certain items. (Do I have the time does anybody?!).
DUCAL has fifty percent original Mould tooolings. And the other fifty percent are in thousands of Masters and Sub aster (metal) castings and separated mixed up parts. Weve already narrowed down and sorted several thousand separe heads arms leg nad bodies, but we both feel like Alexander the great trying to re build "babylon" He needed six hundred thousand men and after three years could not even clear away the debris. (Mission Impossible?).

 

[The Major]

We discovered after the fact of purchase, that the Simon family had an "unexplained fire" in Australia, and that accorrding to David Love , "Some Moulds and masters were lost".
We did not know about this "fire" until we later on after cargo arrived from N Z, corresponded with David James Love,original Mountford creator, we were searching for "missing items" if he might have some left over still after his retirement).

Abram is understood to have "imported" the surviving "Business" to N Z from Australia. We got all the addresess for the locations. WE ARE PERSUADED ABRAM SOLD ALL DUCAL STOCK AND DID NOT IN FACT DO VERY MUCH IF ANY WORK and only sold prior purchased display Models after his father passed away).
ALL ranges (Mountford U2F JG, Rose and Rosedale and Music in miniature etc) DISPLAY MODELS we thought we were going to get ARE PLAIN GONE VANISHED. So that is why we say this.
hence our first large production run is largely to replace "display" Models to re gain we HOPE customer Confidence after bad previous negative reputation from the kaputniks.

The situation gets further complicated by the fact the TARRANTS (the Simons Bristol based former UK retialers) closed own after Mr tarrant senior, passed away in England , Mathew tarrant then sold Mountford, to someone else. (who promptly vanished ). It gets all a wee bit unclear and a tad maybe Murkey.

So David sold Mountford to the Simons but Tarrants always had the bulk of the product for sale from Bristol most of if not indeed all of the time. And then it gets even more intriguing, because we got a blog copie which states the range at least "some" of it was again "sold" to A.N. other person giving a detailed listing of the items, some of which are supposedley "ours" from the sale by the Simons.

Honestly? We both regret ever having underaken to do business with them. it is a unmitigated DISASTER !!!!!! We think the lot of the were incompetent, badly organized, had NO know how or knowledge of the Industry or making toy soldiers, and have possibly practiced a serious legal deception.

I am duty bound in all integrity to warn anyone out there contemplating purchasing the "kept back" Fleur baix TS Artillery items etc, that we wrote to Ana Simon warning of legal liability in event of a serious breach of Multiple copyrights. They simply may not "sell" the same goods to several "differrent" persons. We were sold "Full and Un fetterred copyright".

But we were then robbed from the cargo pallet down at the Docks in N Z, and it seems now earlir at the Simons......and we have a case of "habeous Corpus" (Noo death without any body !!!).

I am reluctant to invest in new toolings (we got masters for the others but no Moulds) and Instructions too. But to invest again when A N Other might surface with those kits we were "sold" but never recieved, is " ca n'en vaut Pas la chandelle".

 

[The Major]

We have also got these other two Ancient War Elephants from another manufacturer we purchased. This is an old Show Publicity foldier, FBTS Price page. Prices out of date now, but we have the Masters and Moulds for the lot which is something.

 

[tdubel]

Love the Elephants, keep me posted on progress.

As to the whole sordid story..............holy smokes, but I kind of knew it was going to happen. The Simon debacle was just that from the beginning. It seems it only got worse.
Tom

 

[The Major]

Yes. I will keep you in the "loop" and inform you when we start casting the client production run, (which starts with the arrival of a lot of metal from the North. We got VERY BAD weather coming right in this week which might hold the delivery up for a day or two, but not we hope for too long. Minus 7 here today Brrr cold !!! We see Online America has wave of intense cold a lot of places too with Temperatures of Minus 18 YIKES !

If you are keen on buying an elephant let us know, I can get some cast up for you.

regards
Max and Maryse