USN / USMC series - a dead end? (1 Viewer)

[jules118]

Following an interesting albeit brief discussion with Howard I thought I'd pose this question.

How many of you guys have started collecting the USN / USMC series and then found that without a credible opposition it has very limited potential?

I was really excited when the first releases came out but have held off purchasing almost all of the series because atm the only opponents for the more aggressive / 'martial' figures are the unarmed men, women and children from the SOHK range. Is this an intentional 'Freudian' slip from K&C? I doubt it, but why the action poses with no opposition?

I realise that there may be size and/or cost problems with the oft mentioned pirate Junk which may be delaying it's release forever. Understandable. But, what I think what would be more useful (and manageable) than the junk is to release some figures that could be used as an 'opposition' to the USN / USMC series. So, in absence of a junk, undesirable elements... pirates, gangsters who could cause all sorts of problems on the docks.... along with the thieves, drunken sailors, pimps and prostitutes who are always found near any working port.

I know these sorts of figures would be a sure way to get me back into collecting K&C and start taking some of the current releases more seriously, but what do you guys think?

jules

 

[The Military Workshop]

Jules,
Well since you asked here are my thoughts as a dealer.

In the overall scheme of K&C series across all eras I believe the USMC / USN figures would be below average sellers. They are certainly well below average sellers for me. These figures and any opposition have to be looked at from a commercial point of view if K&C decided to continue the series. I have no idea if any opposition was or is planned. If sales of the USMC / USN are not that great that may preclude any additions to the series.

I would guess K&C has to look at it from the point of view of how best to use his production capacity and quickness of sales. If I was making a list of figures to be produced unfortunately opposition to USMC / USN would never rise to the top of the list. US dealers might feel differently. I am not aware it was ever said that there would be opposition.

There was mention of a Pirate Junk quite a while ago but I thought K&C had more recently ruled it out.

Regards
Brett

 

[wayne556517]

Following an interesting albeit brief discussion with Howard I thought I'd pose this question.

How many of you guys have started collecting the USN / USMC series and then found that without a credible opposition it has very limited potential?

I was really excited when the first releases came out but have held off purchasing almost all of the series because atm the only opponents for the more aggressive / 'martial' figures are the unarmed men, women and children from the SOHK range. Is this an intentional 'Freudian' slip from K&C? I doubt it, but why the action poses with no opposition?

I realise that there may be size and/or cost problems with the oft mentioned pirate Junk which may be delaying it's release forever. Understandable. But, what I think what would be more useful (and manageable) than the junk is to release some figures that could be used as an 'opposition' to the USN / USMC series. So, in absence of a junk, undesirable elements... pirates, gangsters who could cause all sorts of problems on the docks.... along with the thieves, drunken sailors, pimps and prostitutes who are always found near any working port.

I know these sorts of figures would be a sure way to get me back into collecting K&C and start taking some of the current releases more seriously, but what do you guys think?

jules

Jules i live near a working port and ive seen none of these,well the occasional drunk not sure if there all sailors............................^&grin

 

[tdubel]

I would bet on seeing some Chinese Bandits and a small craft some time in the future!

My opinion of course, but have a good feeling on this.

TD

 

[The Military Workshop]

Tom,
In that case sounds like a safe bet ! I suspect insider trading.
Regards
Brett

 

[marksable]

Jules,


I am not aware it was ever said that there would be opposition.

There was mention of a Pirate Junk quite a while ago but I thought K&C had more recently ruled it out.

Regards
Brett

Andy was quite definitive about their being a Pirate Junk and Chinese pirates at last year's West Coaster, both in the public presentation and prior to that speaking in his room to a smaller audience (me).

I believe since then he said on the board he was re-evaluating the junk because of size issues (someone I'm sure can look up his exact quote). That quite frankly wasn't bad news, as I'm not sure I'd have room for something much bigger than the naval launch.

I hope that didn't mean he wasn't thinking of producing pirates/opposition of some sort at all. One of my first posts on this board was pretty similar to Jules'. I was thinking more along the lines of Chinese Nationalists/Communists, but I'm not sure what K&C can do politically as a manufacturer in China. Bandits are quite frankly more intriguing.

Right now my USN/SOHK display looks less like a scene from a Steve McQueen movie and more like a prelude to a civilian massacre.

Seriously, my USN display feels very much incomplete. I relied on Andy's statements about upcoming opposition, purchasing figures I might not have otherwise, so I'd be disappointed if they don't materialize.

That's not to say I'm unhappy with the USN/SOHK, they are some great figures and it's an example of the diversity that has always attracted me to K&C.

Anyway...I hope tdubel's "opinions" are right.

 

[jules118]

Jules i live near a working port and ive seen none of these,well the occasional drunk not sure if there all sailors............................^&grin

LOL Wayne... maybe you're obviously not heading out at the right time or to the right places. I've met quite a few shady characters (including all of those I mentioned with the exception of pirates, maybe) around some of the pubs in Freo. But maybe it's just the kind of people I seem to attract.

Brett, yeah I understand the economics, but as Marksable pointed out we have been reassured, repeatedly, that there was going to be some sort of opposition for the USN/USMC figures. Can accept that there may not be a pirate junk and after waiting so long, I have kinda moved on anyway. But I could still fit some undesirables into my SOHK series and it would rekindle my interest in K&C. I think that not releasing any would be quite a huge breach of faith for those collectors who have been told some opposition is coming and so have, as a result, invested in the USN and USMC range, particularly the more warlike poses.

Hopefully Tom is right ... and sooner, rather than later.
jules

EDIT: Just going through some of the other threads and I have come across this, so I see that I am not alone in my views
http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/forum/showthread.php?28314-K-amp-C-U.S.M.C.-U.S.-Navy-amp-FOB
It's sad and I'm not happy about making any of these comments because I really like K&C, the products that I have are excellent and the service that the folks at K&C HK and K&K UK have provided has always been first rate. But how many collectors will think twice about investing soon after the introduction of a totally new series if they can't rely on the promise that there will be other stuff to compliment it down the track?

 

[marksable]

Brett, yeah I understand the economics, but as Marksable pointed out we have been reassured, repeatedly, that there was going to be some sort of opposition for the USN/USMC figures.. I think that not releasing any would be quite a huge breach of faith for those collectors who have been told some opposition is coming and so have, as a result, invested in the USN and USMC range, particularly the more warlike poses....

...It's sad and I'm not happy about making any of these comments because I really like K&C, the products that I have are excellent and the service that the folks at K&C HK and K&K UK have provided has always been first rate. But how many collectors will think twice about investing soon after the introduction of a totally new series if they can't rely on the promise that there will be other stuff to compliment it down the track?

Just to be clear, I can understand if it's not economically feasible for the line to continue despite the promise that it would. But if that is that case - and we're not there yet - it would be nice to have some kind of acknowledgment, if not apology, from K&C.

At the risk of derailing this thread, something really changed for me with the whole ME-262 situation. It wasn't that K&C produced a tail-sitter. It was that they denied it, and then never acknowledge or apologize for the mistake publicly.

I bring the ME-262 up because it feels disappointed in K&C's PR lately.

Like Jules, I don't like making these comments. I don't think you'll find a negative comment about K&C from me prior to the ME-262 incident, and even then I tried to be respectful and polite in my disappointment and frustration.

I don't know why exactly that Andy has stopped commenting on this forum. I can certainly guess from certain threads that got out of hand. Coming here was never something he had to do, but it was appreciated and added something to the hobby (the same can be said for Richard and Ken at WB, Rick etc. at Figarti and others).

It's certainly Andy's prerogative not to post. But I don't think his absence/silence has helped K&C's public relations/perception here.

I hope K&C continues with USN, but like I said, I'll understand if they don't. What I'd like more is for K&C to be a bit more forthcoming and, when warranted, contrite. Given the tremendous amount of goodwill that Andy and K&C have built up over the years, I don't think it would take much more than a simple "sorry" if there's been a mistake.

To paraphrase Andy, there's no pleasing everyone. But I don't think the solution is to give up on everyone either.

Maybe I'm misreading Andy's silence/absence, but the board - and to some extent, the hobby - just feels like different this year.

 

[PolarBear]

I corresponded with Andy towards the end of last year about the series and the need for additional figures, especially some type of opponent. In my opinion this lack of opposition for all the armed Americans has likely hurt sales for the product. We talked about possible opponents and we discussed the film The White Countess set in Shanghai in the 1930s. The film covers the invasion of the Japanese and I suggested that Japanese soldiers in their early war uniforms might make an interesting opponent. Andy said I was close to what he was thinking but not exactly. So that does not sound like pirates to me. In the Sand Pebbles the opponents are anti-Western Chinese of the Yankee Go Home sort. The crew of the San Pablo attempt a rescue of missionaries under siege by nationalist soldiers. So now I am wondering if it is that simple: anti-American Chinese nationalist soldiers. Recall how a number of years back Figarti had an entire line of Chinese soldiers from the late 30s-1940s era. It would also be helpful to have USN deck crew working at the dock and sailors and Marines out on the town interacting with some the local bar girls as portrayed in the film. How about a fight scene in a Shanghai bar with one of the combatants wielding a broken beer bottle as a weapon or even tossing a chair?

 

[marksable]

So now I am wondering if it is that simple: anti-American Chinese nationalist soldiers. Recall how a number of years back Figarti had an entire line of Chinese soldiers from the late 30s-1940s era. It would also be helpful to have USN deck crew working at the dock and sailors and Marines out on the town interacting with some the local bar girls as portrayed in the film. How about a fight scene in a Shanghai bar with one of the combatants wielding a broken beer bottle as a weapon or even tossing a chair?[/B]

Good to hear that Andy told yet another source there is opposition on the way.

I wonder whether making Nationalist Chinese figures in Communist China would be possible (were the Figarti figures Nationalist or Communist?).

Oh, and I'm all for a big bar brawl as in Sand Pebbles. We already have drunken Brownshirts, it shouldn't be that much of a stretch.

 

[jules118]

Good to hear that Andy told yet another source there is opposition on the way. ...Oh, and I'm all for a big bar brawl as in Sand Pebbles. We already have drunken Brownshirts, it shouldn't be that much of a stretch.

I agree, a bar brawl or something similar would be great.... give those meathead Shore Patrol guys something to do

 

[PolarBear]

Good to hear that Andy told yet another source there is opposition on the way.

I wonder whether making Nationalist Chinese figures in Communist China would be possible (were the Figarti figures Nationalist or Communist?).

Oh, and I'm all for a big bar brawl as in Sand Pebbles. We already have drunken Brownshirts, it shouldn't be that much of a stretch.

Figarti were Nationalist Army and Communist forces

Here are some from the Communist Series:

http://www.figarti.com/Catalog/WWII_China_Theatre/Chinese 8th Route Army

 

[jazzeum]

I think Andy has stopped communicating with the Forum and does it through Gordon because he feels "he's d@mned if you, d@mned if you don't." I hope I'm not betraying any confidences by saying so.

Regarding this line, and you can probably say the same thing about lines like the West, it's an occasional line and there are only so many resources to go around, particularly with the need to produce product that appeals to most collectors. I don't think lines like this get neglected, there's just so much one can do.