War and Peace 2016 (2 Viewers)

[arnhem44mad]

Sorry, I disagree but this series is not supposed to be the battles of Napoleon vs Russia but War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy, also includes the Battle of Borodiino, which, as I'm finding out since I'm reading the book and reading about the book, is more than just battles. Moreover, the makers and the BBC have to appeal to a larger audience than people who just have an interest in the battles.

I saw from Amazon that there is a 1972 version with Anthony Hopkins. I may order that. If you have any ideas where to get the Russian version, please let me know.

Perhaps I will start a thread about the book in the book section.

I ordered this last month mate!

The battle scenes are quite good! A bit like Sharpe's battles except a bit larger scale.

Scott

 

[Warrior]

Caught the last two episodes last night; just as I had heard, the Borodino and retreat from Moscow segments were just awful. Borodino lasted less than 10 minutes and the retreat from Moscow was nothing more than a handful of bundled up Frenchmen staggering around in the snow for awhile.

Again, understood that the series was about the entire War and Peace novel, not just battles during the Napoleonic war.

This series makes me appreciate the Russian and American versions of War and Peace that much more.

I'm going to rent both of them now as a matter of fact...............

 

[Fubar]

Caught the last two episodes last night; just as I had heard, the Borodino and retreat from Moscow segments were just awful. Borodino lasted less than 10 minutes and the retreat from Moscow was nothing more than a handful of bundled up Frenchmen staggering around in the snow for awhile.

Again, understood that the series was about the entire War and Peace novel, not just battles during the Napoleonic war.

This series makes me appreciate the Russian and American versions of War and Peace that much more.

I'm going to rent both of them now as a matter of fact...............

I enjoyed it. The battle and retreat were poorly executed. 5 Frenchmen rolling around in the GREAT Redoubt comprised the entire visuals for the French and allies armies.Oh, and Napoleon and several aides standing on a hill.
Absolutely puny effort.No sense of the magnitude of this battle, the retreat. Both prior big screen versions were far better, as far as the WAR in WAR AND PEACE.
I did enjoy the rest though.Very moving.

 

[Gebhard]

Once you get past the fact that this was made as a love story with the War as a backdrop for a new generation it is what it is. I would much have preferred the love story play second fiddle to the Invasion, hell if it were up to me two episodes would have been spent just on Borodino.

Over all I liked it, the beginning of the last episode being the best 10 min of Napoleonic battle shots in a long long time of course its the only Napoleonic Batttle scenes in a long long time. For me thats just the point nobody puts out Napoleonic war movies so beggars can't be choosers I guess. Just wait till I hit the powerball and start my own Historic Movie company, then you'll see some action and Historically accurate as well.

 

[jazzeum]

I watched the last episode last night and, yes, I agree with George, Borodino was not good but I thought the retreat wasn't bad. However, the rest of it was good. I'm now reading the book and have read about the first 100 pages and the series seems faithful to Tolstoy.

If the series gets people to read the book and perhaps other Russian writers, then it will have been a successful series.

 

[jazzeum]

Caught the last two episodes last night; just as I had heard, the Borodino and retreat from Moscow segments were just awful. Borodino lasted less than 10 minutes and the retreat from Moscow was nothing more than a handful of bundled up Frenchmen staggering around in the snow for awhile.

Again, understood that the series was about the entire War and Peace novel, not just battles during the Napoleonic war.

This series makes me appreciate the Russian and American versions of War and Peace that much more.

I'm going to rent both of them now as a matter of fact...............

From the research I've done the Russian 1967 edition by Sergey Bondarchuk seems to be the one to watch.

Andrew Kaufman, who is a Russian scholar and expert on War and Peace, said:

"One of the reasons Bondarchuk’s adaptation is so good is that he knew that the audience for his movie would be Russians who grew up with War and Peace in their blood. With that kind of pressure, combined with the financial support given to the movie by the Soviet government, he could not permit himself to deviate at all from the facts of the novel. Of course, he doesn’t try to fit everything in, but what he does include in the movie is exactly true to the novel.

Secondly, the movie is sensually stunning. The natural imagery and sounds are terrific, and the war scenes are spectacular. The climactic battle of Borodino and subsequent burning of Moscow are a tour de force of cinematic art in their own right. In fact, the Soviet government lent Bondarchuk thousands of Soviet soldiers as extras for those scenes.

Finally, Bondarchuk is a great and sensitive reader of the novel. In the movie he avoids reducing the novel to a political message, as was often done in Soviet times, and instead he visually captures the universal humanity and philosophical depth of Tolstoy’s work more successfully than any other movie adaptation of the novel."​

See The Ideal Guide to War and Peace.

You can buy the movie on Amazon.

 

[Warrior]

Once you get past the fact that this was made as a love story with the War as a backdrop for a new generation it is what it is. I would much have preferred the love story play second fiddle to the Invasion, hell if it were up to me two episodes would have been spent just on Borodino.

Over all I liked it, the beginning of the last episode being the best 10 min of Napoleonic battle shots in a long long time of course its the only Napoleonic Batttle scenes in a long long time. For me thats just the point nobody puts out Napoleonic war movies so beggars can't be choosers I guess. Just wait till I hit the powerball and start my own Historic Movie company, then you'll see some action and Historically accurate as well.

Awesome post.

The problem is although a movie about Borodino and the French invasion of Russia/Leipzig (the battle of nations)/Dresden (a true allied effort of Russians, Prussians and Austrians vs the French)/Waterloo, etc, etc, will never happen as even though there are thousands of Napoleonic War students out there, a movie such as these would never be able to recoup the production costs unless you tied a love story into it for a wider audience.

This is why Waterloo was such a stunning achievement in my eyes; yes, they butchered the battle somewhat, but it is a movie solely about the Battle of Waterloo and uses thousands of extras, no CGI, just massed numbers of troops.

It's really sad that two of histories most famous and most studied wars (American Civil War and Napoleonic War) have maybe a dozen movies/miniseries in total dedicated to them.

Waterloo, Gettysburg, Gods and Generals, The Horse Soldiers, Red Badge of Courage by 2, the blue and the grey, Napoleon, Gone with the wind, field of lost shoes, Shenendoah, North and South, Lincoln, the Sharpe Series.............that's about it............there was also a movie about the Peninsular War where a group of Spanish guerillas led by Frank Sinatra and Sophia Loren hauled a huge cannon across Spain to use in a seige of a city held by the French, not a bad one, but speaking of bad, the rug Sinatra wore in that movie is an insult to humanity, the least they could have done is given him a chin strap to wear, or close the eyes on that animal that was on his head..............:wink2:

 

[Go for Broke]

Awesome post.

there was also a movie about the Peninsular War where a group of Spanish guerillas led by Frank Sinatra and Sophia Loren hauled a huge cannon across Spain to use in a seige of a city held by the French, not a bad one, but speaking of bad, the rug Sinatra wore in that movie is an insult to humanity, the least they could have done is given him a chin strap to wear, or close the eyes on that animal that was on his head..............:wink2:

My memory is failing me. I thought Anthony Quin was in that one. Although I haven't seen that movie since I was kid, over 40-years ago.{sm3}

 

[Warrior]

My memory is failing me. I thought Anthony Quin was in that one. Although I haven't seen that movie since I was kid, over 40-years ago.{sm3}

I think Anthony Quinn was in this one, so you're memory is not failing you, good job.........................

 

[jazzeum]

Once you get past the fact that this was made as a love story with the War as a backdrop for a new generation it is what it is. I would much have preferred the love story play second fiddle to the Invasion, hell if it were up to me two episodes would have been spent just on Borodino.

Over all I liked it, the beginning of the last episode being the best 10 min of Napoleonic battle shots in a long long time of course its the only Napoleonic Batttle scenes in a long long time. For me thats just the point nobody puts out Napoleonic war movies so beggars can't be choosers I guess. Just wait till I hit the powerball and start my own Historic Movie company, then you'll see some action and Historically accurate as well.

I didn't see it as a love story but as lives being lived and played out against the backdrop of the Napoleonic Era, which is what I believe Tolstoy had in mind.

 

[Go for Broke]

I think Anthony Quinn was in this one, so you're memory is not failing you, good job.........................

Not to derail War & Peace, but my memory is rebooting. Was the movie called, Gun for San Sebastian?

 

[Warrior]

Not to derail War & Peace, but my memory is rebooting. Was the movie called, Gun for San Sebastian?

Different movie; the one I was referring to was The pride and the passion.........................not a bad one, not great either...........

 

[Ragnar]

The Russian Version has by far the best battle scenes I have ever seen on film for the Napoleonic Period anyway!
They did a great job with the redoubt, plenty of Cavalry plus some really big Russian Squares.....plenty of smoke blowing across the battle field.
Sadly the days of making grand movies with thousands of extras are over!

 

[Horus]

Awesome post.

The problem is although a movie about Borodino and the French invasion of Russia/Leipzig (the battle of nations)/Dresden (a true allied effort of Russians, Prussians and Austrians vs the French)/Waterloo, etc, etc, will never happen as even though there are thousands of Napoleonic War students out there, a movie such as these would never be able to recoup the production costs unless you tied a love story into it for a wider audience.

This is why Waterloo was such a stunning achievement in my eyes; yes, they butchered the battle somewhat, but it is a movie solely about the Battle of Waterloo and uses thousands of extras, no CGI, just massed numbers of troops.

It's really sad that two of histories most famous and most studied wars (American Civil War and Napoleonic War) have maybe a dozen movies/miniseries in total dedicated to them.

Waterloo, Gettysburg, Gods and Generals, The Horse Soldiers, Red Badge of Courage by 2, the blue and the grey, Napoleon, Gone with the wind, field of lost shoes, Shenendoah, North and South, Lincoln, the Sharpe Series.............that's about it............there was also a movie about the Peninsular War where a group of Spanish guerillas led by Frank Sinatra and Sophia Loren hauled a huge cannon across Spain to use in a seige of a city held by the French, not a bad one, but speaking of bad, the rug Sinatra wore in that movie is an insult to humanity, the least they could have done is given him a chin strap to wear, or close the eyes on that animal that was on his head..............:wink2:

Hi
Just to add a couple of Napoleonic era films, there is the 1977 film "The Duellists", no big battle scenes, but a decent story starred Harvey Keitel and Keith Carradine, directed by Ridley Scott.
A second film I only saw bits of in a documentary years ago was "Kolberg" a film done during the final months of WW2 by the Nazi's for their propaganda. Prussian vs French 1813.
Just found this on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDJmmFP7QDk
Steve

 

[Johnboy]

Different movie; the one I was referring to was The pride and the passion.........................not a bad one, not great either...........

Yes.......this was the film that co-starred Cary Grant as a British Royal Naval officer who was sent as an advisor to the Spanish irregulars.

 

[jazzeum]

I'm wondering how many of you have read War and Peace and if not, why not and if the series changed your mind about trying it.

In my case, I never considered doing it, mostly because it's a heck of a long book!, which is what I think what most people would say. However, because of the series, I picked it up and am enjoying it. In the course of deciding whether to read it, I found that reading it is a requirement for Russian students.

 

[Gebhard]

Awesome post.

The problem is although a movie about Borodino and the French invasion of Russia/Leipzig (the battle of nations)/Dresden (a true allied effort of Russians, Prussians and Austrians vs the French)/Waterloo, etc, etc, will never happen as even though there are thousands of Napoleonic War students out there, a movie such as these would never be able to recoup the production costs unless you tied a love story into it for a wider audience.

This is why Waterloo was such a stunning achievement in my eyes; yes, they butchered the battle somewhat, but it is a movie solely about the Battle of Waterloo and uses thousands of extras, no CGI, just massed numbers of troops.

Sadly I totally agree, Although all we need is one super rich person who loves the Period and anything could happen. I also agree with your thoughts on Waterloo, it brought to life my dreams of what a Napolonic Battle would look like. There is a company called Belle and Blade and the owner is a war movie expert he told me one time there is another version of Waterloo with over an additional hour of Battle footage that was cut out for the theatrical version. He is offering a reward for anyone who has a copy.... I know I'd love to seee it, but so far no luck in finding it.

I'd love to see someone do for the Napoleonic Period what Peter jackson did for the works of Tolkien. I'm a huge Tolkien fan and never thought I'd see that and I did. I had my doubts about how Gollum would look when I heard he would be CGI but it blew me away. The battles were also incredible, with the level CGI is at now and with flims like Planet of the Apes ect it really is possible to do incredible things. Just imagine that tech all being put to making a series of films dedicated to telling the history of the Napoleonic age... Oh well we can dream.

 

[Warrior]

Sadly I totally agree, Although all we need is one super rich person who loves the Period and anything could happen. I also agree with your thoughts on Waterloo, it brought to life my dreams of what a Napolonic Battle would look like. There is a company called Belle and Blade and the owner is a war movie expert he told me one time there is another version of Waterloo with over an additional hour of Battle footage that was cut out for the theatrical version. He is offering a reward for anyone who has a copy.... I know I'd love to seee it, but so far no luck in finding it.

I'd love to see someone do for the Napoleonic Period what Peter jackson did for the works of Tolkien. I'm a huge Tolkien fan and never thought I'd see that and I did. I had my doubts about how Gollum would look when I heard he would be CGI but it blew me away. The battles were also incredible, with the level CGI is at now and with flims like Planet of the Apes ect it really is possible to do incredible things. Just imagine that tech all being put to making a series of films dedicated to telling the history of the Napoleonic age... Oh well we can dream.

Steve's been on the hunt for that copy of Waterloo since Christ was in a crib, I don't think it exists, I think it's one of those urban legends. It would be great if it was out there and he found it and made it available. Not sure what parts of the battle were cut out as they covered it all fairly well. The attacks on Hougoumont and La Haye Saint were well done as was the French cavalry charge and the Guard's attack at the end (although it was the middle guard, not the old guard that attacked at the end). The British cavalry charge was strange; one minute they're roaring towards the French infantry, then the next minute, the infantry disappeared. The French lancers that pursued then were line lancers, not Dutch lancers, so they got that wrong in the movie.

Maybe the longer version addresses Plancenoit, Ligny and Quatre Bras, which would be awesome..................here's hoping a copy of that longer version eventually shows up............

 

[Gebhard]

Steve's been on the hunt for that copy of Waterloo since Christ was in a crib, I don't think it exists, I think it's one of those urban legends. It would be great if it was out there and he found it and made it available. Not sure what parts of the battle were cut out as they covered it all fairly well. The attacks on Hougoumont and La Haye Saint were well done as was the French cavalry charge and the Guard's attack at the end (although it was the middle guard, not the old guard that attacked at the end). The British cavalry charge was strange; one minute they're roaring towards the French infantry, then the next minute, the infantry disappeared. The French lancers that pursued then were line lancers, not Dutch lancers, so they got that wrong in the movie.

Maybe the longer version addresses Plancenoit, Ligny and Quatre Bras, which would be awesome..................here's hoping a copy of that longer version eventually shows up............

CLASSIC {sm4}{sm3}.

Now that you mention it, it has been a long long time. He told me it dealt with expanded Prussian scenes not sure which. Only really got two of them and for me we sure could have used more. The movie does show the time it was made, with reference to the British Cavalry charge its pretty psychedelic man... And how they made the Prussians some kind of goose stepping SS with the dark music when they arrive as well as the "raise the black flag children" and "showing no pity" dialog . It's still a GREAT movie, matter of fact I'm gonna go dig it out.

 

[Scott]

I'm wondering how many of you have read War and Peace and if not, why not and if the series changed your mind about trying it.

In my case, I never considered doing it, mostly because it's a heck of a long book!, which is what I think what most people would say. However, because of the series, I picked it up and am enjoying it. In the course of deciding whether to read it, I found that reading it is a requirement for Russian students.

I read it years ago in the early 80s. My daughter read it recently and would remind me of all the names and relationships while we watched this version.