Waterloo and Plancenoit Diorama (2 Viewers)

[Mike97]

Wow, it’s so much fun following this thread-and your ‘thatch’ pictures are inspirational

 

[jason foote]

This is going to be epic, please continue to keep us updated with pics of the developing concept

 

[Mastercom10]

Here is the next update to the Plancenoit diorama, just like in the TV show Project Runway, "one day you're in and the next day you're out" spent most of the past week editing the diorama content which resulted in a number of the figures removed for various reasons. The current content will feature WB Imperial Guard Grenadiers. I also continued with the location being on the outskirts of Plancenoit. The location included a farm building which is a conversion of the WB Hougoumont facade into a complete farm building with a thatched roof. I decided to use a thatched roof rather than tile as it was an older outbuilding on the outskirts of town (artistic license). I have attached images of the building of the thatched roof using balsa wood, deconstructed paint brushes and embroidery thread. I took the brushes apart and salvaged the glued together bristles as thatch bundles. I used ultra-thin double-sided tape to attach the bristles to the balsa wood. I layered the bristle bunches to the roof line than added a binder made of thread on the top row in a geometric pattern showing signs of becoming loose due to the damage to the other side of the roof. To anchor the bristles, used clear Elmers Glue on the rows to insure they would stay in place. The bristles were then covered in a dark wash, then black/brown weathering pastel powder for aging with a dusting of green turf as moss on the lower part of the roof. Once complete, the roof was then coated in a glossy clear sealant to give it a wet look. I am still working on the partially destroyed side of the barn.

I also have 2 questions based the research so far on the action around Plancenoit and Waterloo in general.

1. In the research that I have done, the battalion of Old Guard Grenadiers sent to Plancenoit came from the 2nd Regiment which is very consistent. Where I get different opinions is on which battalion. I have seen reference to the 1st as well as the 2nd battalion, based on the research so far, I have concluded that it was the 2nd battalion. Is this correct?
2. I have seen a number of references to the wearing of overcoats by French combatants from secondary sources. I have not found any primary sources to support the wearing of overcoats in combat for the French army. I am not surprised as it does not seem to be a practical primary uniform option based on both accessibility and practicality for the month of June in Belgium for an invading fast moving Napoleonic French army with veteran soldiers (especially the Imperial Old Guard). I am looking for contemporary to the battle original source documents such as actual battle reports, battle uniform usage (payroll), soldier burial references and so on. Does anyone know where the overcoat reference come from?

Appreciate all the help. Let me know what you thin or if you have any questions. Thx Chris

Chris,

First of all, congratulations on your homemade scenics, they promise to be very successful.
As for me, I don't think I have the dexterity to make such scenics, so I'm asking a professional to do it for me according to my plans and instructions.
Regarding your two questions:
-1) Indeed, in the documentation on this subject, there seems to be some confusion between the first and second battalion.
Based on the most "reliable" and recent books consulted, I also deduce that it is the 2nd Battalion of the 2nd Grenadier Regiment of the Old Guard.
- 2) In almost every book I've consulted, it says that the grenadiers of the Old Guard at Waterloo wore: : bearskin bonnet without ornaments and greatcoat (see attached photos).
About the greatcoat, I am convinced I read in a book that it was an order given by Napoleon himself at Waterloo.
It would seem that many collectors prefer the attractive look of full dress to the more austere look of campaign dress.
That's probably why most brands hardly ever make figurines in greatcoats that hide the details of the uniform.
It's a choice between eye catching figurines and historical reality, and that's where each person's level of accuracy tolerance in this hobby comes into play.
IMHO, to date, the most successful Old Guard grenadier figures are those from King & Country, even though most of them are not wearing greacoats.
What bothers me about the William Britain figurines, aside from the bearskin bonnet with ornaments and the absence of bayonets, is the white trousers on the majority.
Indeed, I read in one of my books: "The grenadiers and chasseurs of the Old Guard did not have summer trousers (white canvas) and campaigned mainly in winter trousers made of blue cloth".
However, in my Plancenoit diorama, I still included 36187 "French Imperial Guard standing defending" that I find particularly successful.
Regarding the Prussians, which figurines will you be using ?.
To date, if I'm not mistaken, only First Legion (unfortunately many are now sold out and are therefore very difficult to find and and at a very high price), KronPrinz
and Thomas Gunn (very few) have released prussian soldiers. Hopefully King and Country and William Britain will release them in the future !.

 

[Dragoon]

- Napoleon had his Old Guard stow plumes and other parade fineries in their packs for an expected grand entree into Brussels.

 

[7th OVI]

Good morning and thought I would show the latest update to the diorama. I have started to do the figure blocking and applying the roof customization to the farm building. First, the farm building scenario is coming along nicely. I really like how the modified Hougoumont building is turning out with the loopholes and thatched roof. The side of the roof that will be most visible is the one with some battle damage that is still in process. I also decided to leave the sides open with wood fencing to provide an interior view. The figure blocking is always a challenge because of how the bases interfere with making multiple rank positions possible with a large number of figures. It still turned out quite well and made the image I was looking for in the diorama. I attached a few images to show the progress. A little context on the images, the French figures represent almost a full company of infantry in 3 ranks. Next major milestone is finishing off the roof and working on the wheat field and other vegetation. Here is some information on the background as well as some QA:

1. Great consensus on the 2nd battalion of the 2nd Old Guard Grenadiers being dispatched to Plancenoit. Bad news with the 2nd battalion is that probably meant no eagle or standard and a minimal officer staff for the Old Guard Grenadiers was present. So, the massed drummers, regimental command and Eagle with flag are out.

2. Overcoats and winter blue campaign uniforms. I have also noticed the reference to the Old Guard wearing overcoats and winter campaign trousers in a number of books. However, most of these books do not provide a reference for the information or if they do it is from a British source. Some of the British sources noted seem unreliable as one source described the coat as "single breasted with brass buttons" (?) or decades after the battle. They also mention over coats on both line and Guard infantry. I have yet to find any French primary source that mentions overcoats or winter campaign dress used in the summer months. I have found a French primary source describing the Napoleons Guard on arrival from Elba wearing white trousers. I also found primary source descriptions of material stripped from the French dead by looters of infantry and cavalry jackets, accouterments, knapsacks and weapons but no mention of color or overcoats. I also saw a video from the Waterloo Association done 5 months ago about the Imperial Guard at Waterloo with author Andrew W. Field. He wrote a 4-book series on the battle of Waterloo (I have read some of the content and decided to buy the set). During the Q&A at the end of the video he was asked directly about the overcoats and said that the only mention of overcoats is from British sources, and he has not found a single French source yet regarding the wearing of overcoats at Waterloo. Very perplexing. I am not convinced about the overcoats and continue to leave this as an open question that requires more research. I am going to mix in some figures with blue trousers as I think that may have been an option that could have been possible.

3. I also came across that reference about packing dress elements for a possible victory parade into Brussels. I am looking for primary sources on this as well.

4. As far as the choice of figures, I have the utmost respect for both the collectors and manufacturers of toy soldiers. I think that like art, toy soldier figures "speak differently" to all of us. I always enjoy the "why's" around how collectors pick the figures they collect, display and put into dioramas. I also agree that there are tradeoffs with historical accuracy and the available figures. I picked the WB Imperial Guard for a number of reasons including historical accuracy for this series.

5. I am using First Legion 11th Line Prussians for the dead bodies in the diorama. I keep watching secondary sources for other manufacturers like the 11th infantry, but they are expensive. I do like the First Legion Landwehr figures, but they are not in scope for the 3 dioramas that I have mapped out. I did commission a 3d printing of the infamous church for the final 2 dioramas. I am also hoping that WB will release some Prussian line infantry at some point as well as more Imperial Guard and Napoleonic figures.


That's all from the workbench this week. As always appreciate all the feedback and information. Thx Chris

 

[Warrior]

This thread raises the interesting question of the lack of Prussians available, not to mention Nassau troops, Dutch Belgians, Hanovarians, all of which were heavily involved in the hundred days campaign at Quatre Bras, Ligny, Waterloo and Wavre.

The battle of Waterloo was not just French vs British, this tremendously ambitious project illustrates how much there is a need for Prussians, finding them in secondary market is difficult and expensive.

Not meaning to derail this great thread; carry on.

Here are some images of a few of my 20mm Old Guard and Prussians...................

 

[Mastercom10]

- Napoleon had his Old Guard stow plumes and other parade fineries in their packs for an expected grand entree into Brussels.

Yes, that's exactly it.

 

[Mastercom10]

Good morning and thought I would show the latest update to the diorama. I have started to do the figure blocking and applying the roof customization to the farm building. First, the farm building scenario is coming along nicely. I really like how the modified Hougoumont building is turning out with the loopholes and thatched roof. The side of the roof that will be most visible is the one with some battle damage that is still in process. I also decided to leave the sides open with wood fencing to provide an interior view. The figure blocking is always a challenge because of how the bases interfere with making multiple rank positions possible with a large number of figures. It still turned out quite well and made the image I was looking for in the diorama. I attached a few images to show the progress. A little context on the images, the French figures represent almost a full company of infantry in 3 ranks. Next major milestone is finishing off the roof and working on the wheat field and other vegetation. Here is some information on the background as well as some QA:

1. Great consensus on the 2nd battalion of the 2nd Old Guard Grenadiers being dispatched to Plancenoit. Bad news with the 2nd battalion is that probably meant no eagle or standard and a minimal officer staff for the Old Guard Grenadiers was present. So, the massed drummers, regimental command and Eagle with flag are out.

2. Overcoats and winter blue campaign uniforms. I have also noticed the reference to the Old Guard wearing overcoats and winter campaign trousers in a number of books. However, most of these books do not provide a reference for the information or if they do it is from a British source. Some of the British sources noted seem unreliable as one source described the coat as "single breasted with brass buttons" (?) or decades after the battle. They also mention over coats on both line and Guard infantry. I have yet to find any French primary source that mentions overcoats or winter campaign dress used in the summer months. I have found a French primary source describing the Napoleons Guard on arrival from Elba wearing white trousers. I also found primary source descriptions of material stripped from the French dead by looters of infantry and cavalry jackets, accouterments, knapsacks and weapons but no mention of color or overcoats. I also saw a video from the Waterloo Association done 5 months ago about the Imperial Guard at Waterloo with author Andrew W. Field. He wrote a 4-book series on the battle of Waterloo (I have read some of the content and decided to buy the set). During the Q&A at the end of the video he was asked directly about the overcoats and said that the only mention of overcoats is from British sources, and he has not found a single French source yet regarding the wearing of overcoats at Waterloo. Very perplexing. I am not convinced about the overcoats and continue to leave this as an open question that requires more research. I am going to mix in some figures with blue trousers as I think that may have been an option that could have been possible.

3. I also came across that reference about packing dress elements for a possible victory parade into Brussels. I am looking for primary sources on this as well.

4. As far as the choice of figures, I have the utmost respect for both the collectors and manufacturers of toy soldiers. I think that like art, toy soldier figures "speak differently" to all of us. I always enjoy the "why's" around how collectors pick the figures they collect, display and put into dioramas. I also agree that there are tradeoffs with historical accuracy and the available figures. I picked the WB Imperial Guard for a number of reasons including historical accuracy for this series.

5. I am using First Legion 11th Line Prussians for the dead bodies in the diorama. I keep watching secondary sources for other manufacturers like the 11th infantry, but they are expensive. I do like the First Legion Landwehr figures, but they are not in scope for the 3 dioramas that I have mapped out. I did commission a 3d printing of the infamous church for the final 2 dioramas. I am also hoping that WB will release some Prussian line infantry at some point as well as more Imperial Guard and Napoleonic figures.


That's all from the workbench this week. As always appreciate all the feedback and information. Thx Chris

I notice that you are very concerned with historical reality, and that's a very good thing.
Regarding the wearing of greatcoats and blue trousers, the debate remains open, but, as they say, "show must go on", and that shouldn't stop us from doing our dioramas.
Your three ranks of grenadiers are very impressive, WB figures are pretty nice.
If I understand correctly, you are going to make three dioramas of Plancenoit, it's a big project that promises to be great.
But precisely, I don't quite understand why no Landwehr figurines will appear at all in these three dioramas.
Indeed, in my opinion, they are indispensable in the battle of Plancenoit: there were three successive Prussian attacks on the village from 6:00 PM to 8:30 PM, and during each of them
there was a strong contingent of Landwehr soldiers ( Silesian, Neumärk and Poménarian).
In fact, the thatched roofs are quite realistic according to the following testimony: "They slaughter each other in the rooms, in the attics; and during these merciless struggles, thatched roofs, engulfed by fire, collapse on the combatants".
Otherwise, I've attached some photos of my little Plancenoit diorama :
- Prussian troops : mainly First Legion and some Thomas Gunn silesian Landwehr; Wounded men from KronPrinz will soon arrive, as well as reinforcements for the last rank.
- French troops : mainly King and Country and some Team Miniatures, not forgetting of course my favorite WB "in defense" (a really very lifelike pose !).
Some grenadiers reinforcements will soon arrive to bolster the French ranks a bit.
Regarding the scenery, I deserve less credit than you because I commissionned this diorama to a professional.
Looking forward to reading the next thread.

 

[7th OVI]

Well, another week and another update from the workbench. This week saw the continuation of the blocking and placement of figures on the French side. Finished fitting the damaged side of the nearly finished thatched roof which will be the most visible side in the diorama. Construction began of the wheat field with the positioning of the Prussian figures. And finally, began a few figure customizations which included adding a pair of guidons or fanions for the each of the 2 Grenadier companies. Now for some QA.

1. I really enjoy the research aspect of diorama making and try to make each diorama reflective of a moment in time. In doing this, I try to make things as accurate as possible for that moment. Appreciate the recognition in this effort. I also agree the overcoat or capotes question will probably need more research as well as the use of winter blue trousers. I have added some blue trousers in the diorama as WB has some figures available in them that fit the story/scenario and the "show must go on".
2. I will be making 3 dioramas of Waterloo, 2 will be about Plancenoit and the 3rd will using the Polish lancers from the Imperial Guard in a yet to be determined story scenario. The Placenoit dioramas will be focused on the Old Guard Grenadiers.
3. Totally agree on the involvement of the Landwehr troops in Plancenoit. Some of the Landwehr units in the 16th Brigade would be in the first attack, fall back then rally to attack it again in the second attack. Same could be said for the 14th Brigade that was in the second major attack with the remnants of the 16th Brigade. The first story/scene I am doing is depicting the 2/2nd Grenadiers after they had pushed through Plancenoit and met the beginning of the 3rd and final major attack. For this, I am using the 11th Prussians to represent the 25th Infantry of the 5th Brigade. I have a few plans for using Landwehr units in future Plancenoit dioramas once some additional French line figures are available as well as Young Guard and Imperial Guard Chasseurs to face them.
4. Saw that same quote on the thatched roofs which inspired the making of the damaged roof with the smoke effects on the thatch. Appreciate any feedback on the roof with the added smoke damage.
5. Always liked making terrain pieces and enjoy the challenge with each one. From making trees, to buildings to flowers and crops. That being said, there are a number of great terrain and diorama pieces available today from various manufacturers. I take advantage of them as much as possible to save time and provide a great scene.

Mastercom 10 and Warrior, love your dioramas. I keep looking at them over and over to see how you blended the various figures into a stunning scene. Mastercom 10, that building is amazing, especially the view from the inside out into the street. Just curious, did Toy Soldiers of Scandinavia make the building?

Will not post an update on the Plancenoit diorama next week, I will be busy with the yearend holidays, kids and grandkids and a holiday ACW diorama. Will be back at it in January. A book update, Andrew Field's books are great, reading them a second time for reference. I also really liked the Hofschroer book on the Prussians as well reading that one a second time as well. Picked up Paul Dawson's books on uniforms of the Imperial Guard. I just started on Dawson's books. More on them next time. Thx Chris

 

[mestell]

You continue to amaze Chris. I'm really enjoying your project's progress.
Mike

 

[Mastercom10]

Well, another week and another update from the workbench. This week saw the continuation of the blocking and placement of figures on the French side. Finished fitting the damaged side of the nearly finished thatched roof which will be the most visible side in the diorama. Construction began of the wheat field with the positioning of the Prussian figures. And finally, began a few figure customizations which included adding a pair of guidons or fanions for the each of the 2 Grenadier companies. Now for some QA.

1. I really enjoy the research aspect of diorama making and try to make each diorama reflective of a moment in time. In doing this, I try to make things as accurate as possible for that moment. Appreciate the recognition in this effort. I also agree the overcoat or capotes question will probably need more research as well as the use of winter blue trousers. I have added some blue trousers in the diorama as WB has some figures available in them that fit the story/scenario and the "show must go on".
2. I will be making 3 dioramas of Waterloo, 2 will be about Plancenoit and the 3rd will using the Polish lancers from the Imperial Guard in a yet to be determined story scenario. The Placenoit dioramas will be focused on the Old Guard Grenadiers.
3. Totally agree on the involvement of the Landwehr troops in Plancenoit. Some of the Landwehr units in the 16th Brigade would be in the first attack, fall back then rally to attack it again in the second attack. Same could be said for the 14th Brigade that was in the second major attack with the remnants of the 16th Brigade. The first story/scene I am doing is depicting the 2/2nd Grenadiers after they had pushed through Plancenoit and met the beginning of the 3rd and final major attack. For this, I am using the 11th Prussians to represent the 25th Infantry of the 5th Brigade. I have a few plans for using Landwehr units in future Plancenoit dioramas once some additional French line figures are available as well as Young Guard and Imperial Guard Chasseurs to face them.
4. Saw that same quote on the thatched roofs which inspired the making of the damaged roof with the smoke effects on the thatch. Appreciate any feedback on the roof with the added smoke damage.
5. Always liked making terrain pieces and enjoy the challenge with each one. From making trees, to buildings to flowers and crops. That being said, there are a number of great terrain and diorama pieces available today from various manufacturers. I take advantage of them as much as possible to save time and provide a great scene.

Mastercom 10 and Warrior, love your dioramas. I keep looking at them over and over to see how you blended the various figures into a stunning scene. Mastercom 10, that building is amazing, especially the view from the inside out into the street. Just curious, did Toy Soldiers of Scandinavia make the building?

Will not post an update on the Plancenoit diorama next week, I will be busy with the yearend holidays, kids and grandkids and a holiday ACW diorama. Will be back at it in January. A book update, Andrew Field's books are great, reading them a second time for reference. I also really liked the Hofschroer book on the Prussians as well reading that one a second time as well. Picked up Paul Dawson's books on uniforms of the Imperial Guard. I just started on Dawson's books. More on them next time. Thx Chris

Chris,

I enjoy seeing the evolution of your diorama and I particularly liked your damaged tatched roof with smoke effect.

- Regarding the uniforms of the grenadiers at Waterloo, here is a testimony that can be considered as a "french primary source" :

Uniform worn June 18, 1815: It is known from numerous accounts that for major battles of the Empire, such as Jena, Friedland, and Borodino (the Battle of the Moskova), the Imperial Guard received orders to wear full dress uniform.

However, at Waterloo, if we are to believe Mauduit (Sergeant of the 1st Regiment), who is adamant, this was not the case:

"Day had barely broken when an order from the Emperor, transmitted to each corps or section of the Old Guard... instructed us to prepare our full dress uniforms for our entry into Brussels, where the Emperor intended to spend the night. What a cruel illusion! Nevertheless, we made ourselves ready to carry out this order... Finally, around 9 o'clock, the drums called us to arms. Everyone immediately finished washing, still more than damp, because our combat uniform would be the same as the day before, that is to say, a greatcoat and bearskin cap without ornamentation, and not in full summer dress, as the imagination of artists has suggested, who have sought to reproduce on canvas some episodes of this last and terrible drama of the Empire: artistic license, we must admit!..."
Captain H. de Mauduit. The Last Days of the Grande Armée (Vol. 2, p. 236 ) - see attached photo.

- For the third and final major attack to take Plancenoit, 17 prussian battalions were assembled : 9 from the 14th (11th Infantry and Pomeranian Landwehr) and 16th Brigade (15th Infantry and Silesian Landwehr)
and 8 fron the 5th Brigade (2nd and 25th Infantry and Wesphalian Landwehr).
The intervention of the 2nd Silesian Hussars should also be noted.

- regarding the First Legion figurines of the 11th Infantry, were you able to get a large quantity of them, as they are unfortunately now sold out ?.
For my diorama, I would have preferred the First Legion Chasseurs to the King & Country grenadiers, but they are all retired and so very difficult to find (and therefore very expensive !).
And I would add that the best option for me would have been voltigeurs and tirailleurs from the Young Guard who unfortunately do not currently exist.

- Yes, it is well Toy Soldiers of Scandinavia that built the house.

In the meantime, I wish you a happy Christmas and New Year's holiday.