What is the name of the best sniper of the Second Front and what was his kills score (1 Viewer)

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^&confuse^&confuse^&confuse

If one is to follow that same train of thought then the US would be wimps and cowards since Korea forward- not sure that logic fits. The Russian soldier is as formidable as any on the planet- if anything it's their leadership that is highly suspect- but the actual soldier is as lethal as any that ever existed.

The Western allies did not incorporate "Snipers" in their Order of Battle (OOB) in any meaningful numbers because snipers really do not fit what the Western Front was in 1945- a rapid drive to Berlin. Ground was to be gained as quickly and as efficiently as possible. Snipers do not fit that mold. Snipers are better used in a defensive position and essentially act as a force multiplier allowing them to exact precision kill capacity against invading targets high value assets like senior leadership, disrupt communications or other mission essentially tasks. At a squad or company level, they are also used by modern forces to provide covering fire during a host of different missions.

The Fins knew they were going to be overrun by the Soviet juggernaut, it was just a matter of time. Amongst dozens of other defensive measures they took (like flooding fields, cutting lines, blowing bridges, etc), they did an expert job in the deployment of their snipers. In many ways, the Soviets learned a very costly lesson that they were able to leverage a few years later in Stalingrad and other areas where the Germans had them under siege. The Fins took advantage of their hunting culture and their innate knowledge of their home country and exacted an incredibly lethal kill tally against a Soviet Army that was utterly unprepared to fight that fight. Any army that takes to another country **lly understands that playing on their field gives them the home field advantage which the Finns clearly had.

When Barbarossa stalled, the German forces settled in and adopted a siege rather than advance and attack strategy. As such, this gave the Soviets time to properly deploy their sniper kill teams similar to how the Finns did in 39. The soviet snipers were all very similar to the Finn snipers- mostly from rural hunting communities with excellent marksmanship. This time, the Soviets were playing on their ground, the Germans were the aggressors and unfamiliar with snipers being deployed in such high numbers. As such, the Soviet sniper teams were able to rack up large body counts- just like the Finns did to them a few years earlier.

The US military (and our Western allies like Canada, Australia and England) uses snipers in a variety of roles from Seal Team 6 picking off Somali pirates, providing overwatch during infiltration patrols in Iraq, and taking out high value AQ leadership assets in Afghanistan. Still, snipers were not used as a viable military option until we began the rebuild process in Iraq. When we were rolling through Iraq in 2003, we adopted an offensive position designed to take ground. Snipers were not actively involved with offensive operations simply because they do not fill that roll. Once we took Iraq (and became immeshed in Vietnam), we took a "Defensive" position and the sniper could finally do his thing. Soviet snipers are still being used in the Ukraine (and yes, there are female snipers in those units as well).

So to answer the original question, snipers were never deployed in any meaningful numbers in any stage of WW2 by the Western allies simply because we were taking ground and constantly on the offensive. Snipers are best deployed as A- part of a support to patrols during pacification or B- as a precision asset with a mission with a very singular purpose.

Hope that helps
CC

Chris, please don't try to engage him on any level. He's a troll. If you'll notice, all of his prior threads in the History section have been closed, and for good reason. I expect this one to be closed too.
 
The Russian "propaganda unit" has started the last 8 most recent "historical" discussions.

Has Moscow issued a recent directive to its operatives abroad ?

I look forward with great interest to read how they defeated the Afrika Korps and if it was not for them the Brits would have lost the Battle of Britain.
 
The Russian "propaganda unit" has started the last 8 most recent "historical" discussions.

Has Moscow issued a recent directive to its operatives abroad ?

I look forward with great interest to read how they defeated the Afrika Korps and if it was not for them the Brits would have lost the Battle of Britain.
Mind you some parts of the Russian Military I like and some parts I wouldn't mess with, of course it depends on weather they take their guns home....:wink2:


qgF0ouI.jpg


QHU98px.jpg
 
The Russian "propaganda unit" has started the last 8 most recent "historical" discussions.

Has Moscow issued a recent directive to its operatives abroad ?

I look forward with great interest to read how they defeated the Afrika Korps and if it was not for them the Brits would have lost the Battle of Britain.


Well, if everything I posted is a propaganda I guess it should be easy for you to disprove it. Am I right?

Please note: So far no one did put any info what would contradicted the posts.

Do you dare to do it?

Or you are a tire kicker.
 
Wow, an ad hominem attack, and delivered in an almost indecipherable fashion, too! You're really enhancing your credibility.

Prost!
Brad


if a man wants to be treated with respect he shall be respectful not a jerk.
 
Well, if everything I posted is a propaganda I guess it should be easy for you to disprove it. Am I right?

Please note: So far no one did put any info what would contradicted the posts.

Do you dare to do it?

Or you are a tire kicker.

You have started 9 threads on this forum. 8 are in the last two weeks and 7 of those have now been closed. The other was 5 years ago when you were looking for a Stalingrad figure.

Even though I have been on the forum since 2005 it is only in the last two weeks that I became aware of you as a member here. Something must have changed that made you think we suddenly need to know all about Russia in WW2. Strange that you don't appear to have participated much elsewhere in other discussions on this forum.

I don't intend to disprove or prove anything. It is clear to all you have an agenda of constantly bringing up Russia. Perhaps if your 8 threads had been spread over a year it might not have been so noticeable and might have got some genuine debate.

So far you have got the appropriate response to your posts.

Surely there are forums **ll of like minded people where you can praise the motherland all day long.
 
^&confuse^&confuse^&confuse

If one is to follow that same train of thought then the US would be wimps and cowards since Korea forward- not sure that logic fits. The Russian soldier is as formidable as any on the planet- if anything it's their leadership that is highly suspect- but the actual soldier is as lethal as any that ever existed.

The Western allies did not incorporate "Snipers" in their Order of Battle (OOB) in any meaningful numbers because snipers really do not fit what the Western Front was in 1945- a rapid drive to Berlin. Ground was to be gained as quickly and as efficiently as possible. Snipers do not fit that mold. Snipers are better used in a defensive position and essentially act as a force multiplier allowing them to exact precision kill capacity against invading targets high value assets like senior leadership, disrupt communications or other mission essentially tasks. At a squad or company level, they are also used by modern forces to provide covering fire during a host of different missions.

The Fins knew they were going to be overrun by the Soviet juggernaut, it was just a matter of time. Amongst dozens of other defensive measures they took (like flooding fields, cutting lines, blowing bridges, etc), they did an expert job in the deployment of their snipers. In many ways, the Soviets learned a very costly lesson that they were able to leverage a few years later in Stalingrad and other areas where the Germans had them under siege. The Fins took advantage of their hunting culture and their innate knowledge of their home country and exacted an incredibly lethal kill tally against a Soviet Army that was utterly unprepared to fight that fight. Any army that takes to another country **lly understands that playing on their field gives them the home field advantage which the Finns clearly had.

When Barbarossa stalled, the German forces settled in and adopted a siege rather than advance and attack strategy. As such, this gave the Soviets time to properly deploy their sniper kill teams similar to how the Finns did in 39. The soviet snipers were all very similar to the Finn snipers- mostly from rural hunting communities with excellent marksmanship. This time, the Soviets were playing on their ground, the Germans were the aggressors and unfamiliar with snipers being deployed in such high numbers. As such, the Soviet sniper teams were able to rack up large body counts- just like the Finns did to them a few years earlier.

The US military (and our Western allies like Canada, Australia and England) uses snipers in a variety of roles from Seal Team 6 picking off Somali pirates, providing overwatch during infiltration patrols in Iraq, and taking out high value AQ leadership assets in Afghanistan. Still, snipers were not used as a viable military option until we began the rebuild process in Iraq. When we were rolling through Iraq in 2003, we adopted an offensive position designed to take ground. Snipers were not actively involved with offensive operations simply because they do not fill that roll. Once we took Iraq (and became immeshed in Vietnam), we took a "Defensive" position and the sniper could finally do his thing. Soviet snipers are still being used in the Ukraine (and yes, there are female snipers in those units as well).

So to answer the original question, snipers were never deployed in any meaningful numbers in any stage of WW2 by the Western allies simply because we were taking ground and constantly on the offensive. Snipers are best deployed as A- part of a support to patrols during pacification or B- as a precision asset with a mission with a very singular purpose.

Hope that helps
CC


Hi Chris.

Thanks for your informative post.


Here is your quote: “ snipers really do not fit what the Western Front was in 1945- a rapid drive to Berlin”


Unfortunately it is not true.

The Russian snipers were involved with offensive operations on Eastern Front.


They actually never stopped to do them job.

Ivan Sidorenko accomplished 500 kills from 1941 to 1944
Fyodor Okhlopov achived 429 kills until he had been wounded in 1944
Mikhail Ivanovich Budenkov 437 kills was awarded HSU on March 24, 1945 for his valiant efforts as a Soviet sniper.
Stepan Vasilievich Petrenko 422 kills won the highest distinction in the Soviet Union for heroic feats in services to USSR, on March 24, 1945.

A total of 428,335 individuals received Red Army sniper training, including Soviet and non-Soviet partisans, with 9,534 receiving the sniping 'higher qualification'. During World War ІІ, two six-month training courses for women alone trained nearly 55,000 snipers, of which more than two thousand later served in the army.
On average there was at least one sniper in an infantry platoon and one in every reconnaissance platoon, including in tank and even artillery units.
Some used the PTRD anti-tank rifle with an adapted scope as an early example of an anti-materiel rifle.

The German snipers were involved with offensive operations in Normandy.

German snipers remained hidden in the dense vegetation and were able to encircle American units, firing at them from all sides. The American and British forces were surprised by how near the German snipers could approach in safety and attack them, as well as by their ability to hit targets at up to 1,000m. A notable mistake made by inexperienced American soldiers was to lie down and wait when targeted by German snipers, allowing the snipers to pick them off one after another.[8][page needed] German snipers often infiltrated Allied lines and sometimes when the front-lines moved, they continued to fight from their sniping positions, refusing to surrender until their rations and munitions were exhausted.

Why French and British snipers weren’t involved with offensive operations in Normandy if German and Russian snipers were in active service?

Any one know what did happened to French and British snipers?

Why there is nothing about them achievements?

During Germany's 1940 campaigns, lone, well-hidden French and British snipers were able to halt the German advance for a considerable amount of time. For example, during the pursuit to Dunkirk, British snipers were able to significantly delay the German infantry's advance. This prompted the British once again to increase training of specialized sniper units. Apart from marksmanship, British snipers were trained to blend in with the environment, often by using special camouflage clothing for concealment. However, because the British Army offered sniper training exclusively to officers and non-commissioned officers, the resulting small number of trained snipers in combat units considerably reduced their overall effectiveness.[9]

For me it was a surprise to learn “during the pursuit to Dunkirk, British snipers were able to significantly delay the German infantry’s advance.”

Looks like a myth. Am I wrong?

Kind Regards.
Serge.
 
You have started 9 threads on this forum. 8 are in the last two weeks and 7 of those have now been closed. The other was 5 years ago when you were looking for a Stalingrad figure.

Even though I have been on the forum since 2005 it is only in the last two weeks that I became aware of you as a member here. Something must have changed that made you think we suddenly need to know all about Russia in WW2. Strange that you don't appear to have participated much elsewhere in other discussions on this forum.

I don't intend to disprove or prove anything. It is clear to all you have an agenda of constantly bringing up Russia. Perhaps if your 8 threads had been spread over a year it might not have been so noticeable and might have got some genuine debate.

So far you have got the appropriate response to your posts.

Surely there are forums **ll of like minded people where you can praise the motherland all day long.

Thanks for your prompt replay.

Well, it could be a news for you but I always have been reading the forum and actually quite a few people were dealing with me durring this time.

As you can see all the threads are united by a common theme, the Second Front in Normandy.

Honestly in the beginning I wanted to posts just one thread I found by an accident.
I don’t know much about the Second Front so I was expecting for a friendly discution to learn about that event.
Unfortunately for some reasons the reaction of some members of the forum was really appalling.
I sad to myself OK lets give the guys some more info and hopefully we can start to communicate normal so all of us would learn something new about the stuff we love.

That’s all, no hidden hooks.

Kind Regards.
Serge.
 
As you can see all the threads are united by a common theme, the Second Front in Normandy.

I don’t know much about the Second Front so I was expecting for a friendly discussion.
Serge.

My apologies, now I know the purpose of this thread.

So how many kills did Russian snipers get in Normandy ?
 
Perhaps y’all missed my previous post in another thread. Here it is again. I challenge anyone to disprove any of these facts!

“Additional new information has just been made available by Russian authorities who, in all instances, are unbiased and unfailingly honest, forthright and truthful in their discovery and release of heretofore unknown historical facts.

- The major turning points in the American Civil War, including the initial decision to free the slaves, as well as key military victories by the Northern forces, were all engineered and manifested by troops operating at the direction and under the control of Russian commanders. In fact, Russian troops used their massively superior technology, incredibly advanced tactical abilities and hugely fiercer fighting skills to defeat the confederate forces throughout the conflict. It is estimated, with good reliability, that Russian troops suffered 1 killed for every 1,000 rebel soldiers killed. It was an anti-Russian, anti communist that killed Lincoln, who was a great admirer of Russian culture and is said to have wanted to adopt Russian as the nationÂ’s language after the war.

- The Declaration of Independence was conceived of and written by Russian peoples enslaved by Thomas Jefferson. They were kidnapped by American slave traders for their well recognized extraordinary brilliant minds and fanatical appreciation for fairness, justice and equality for all humans. The Americans betrayed the Russians by altering the words that allowed slavery to persist, against all standards of the inherently superior Russian culture.

- Russian army generals advised and led George Washington throughout the revolutionary war. His crossing of the Delaware was the idea of Russian political operatives who were deployed at the highest levels in the Continental Army. They were the leading factions at all major conflicts, and were ultimately responsible for securing CornwallisÂ’s surrender. The American people were deceived about this history by fascist capitalists who conspired to rob and pillage Russian generated wealth, whose unfair results persists to this day. In truth the great majority of AmericaÂ’s wealth and power was created by people of Russian descent, and actual Russians, who have never been accorded their rightful place as the true creators, builders and founders of America. One day this historic injustice will be undone and the US will return to its rightful place as vassal state within the great Russian empire.”
 
Good Morning Brad! Yes sir, you are probably correct- yet, I just have this tendency to engage in these types of discussion! {sm4}{sm4}{sm3}

Good Morning Serge

Correct- it appears as if I did make a typo there- the use of Snipers in the Western Front in 44/45 was not part of the American or western allied order of battle- the Germans used them to some effect. The use and deployment of snipers by the British and French at Dunkirk was a part of delaying action designed to hold back the tide of the Wehrmacht advance. The Germans weren't using snipers during the drive across France in any meaningful numbers since they were trying to keep up with the Panzer advance.

German snipers were marginally effective during our drive to Berlin in 44/45- they harassed and killed but ultimately didn't do anything to stall the allied advance.

Bottom line- snipers become an issue when offensives stagnate (one exception can be large scale urban combat like the Fall of Berlin or Baghdad). When an offensive is in **ll force, snipers cannot be effectively deployed as the front has blown right by them by the time they set up. The Fins, Germans and Soviets all had massive kill counts for a number of reasons- all of those countries were engaged in prolonged defensive actions and the battles they were involved in were just massive in scope and generally dwarfed anything on the Western front- all the "kill counts" were drastically high and will hopefully never be broken- be it snipers, Erich Hartmann's aerial victories or tank kills at Kursk- ultimately if you throw enough lead at a saturated target the numbers just get mind boggling.

I have no problem saying American, English and French snipers did not compare to Finn, Soviet and German snipers in WW2 simply because we were much better lead and were consistently on the offensive- not bogged down in defensive stalemates or delaying actions. The non-use of snipers is a GOOD THING- it shows you are taking the fight to the enemy- it doesn't signify that your troops are better shots or what not. If you look at all the major American wars- the use of snipers in WW1 was a direct result of trench warfare, the use of snipers in late 51 inwards in Korea- again, loss of an offensive thrust, Viet Nam and Iraq- occupation efforts.

Good Morning Rutledge!

If I missed the spirit of your post the error is mine and to which I offer my apologies.

Best regards to all
CC
 
- Russian army generals advised and led George Washington throughout the revolutionary war. His crossing of the Delaware was the idea of Russian political operatives who were deployed at the highest levels in the Continental Army. They were the leading factions at all major conflicts, and were ultimately responsible for securing CornwallisÂ’s surrender. The American people were deceived about this history by fascist capitalists who conspired to rob and pillage Russian generated wealth, whose unfair results persists to this day. In truth the great majority of AmericaÂ’s wealth and power was created by people of Russian descent, and actual Russians, who have never been accorded their rightful place as the true creators, builders and founders of America. One day this historic injustice will be undone and the US will return to its rightful place as vassal state within the great Russian empire.”

This is an amazing secret that has been kept for so long. It does explain how American won against England.

However I will only be 100% convinced when John Jenkins releases his Russians figures in the American Revolution series.
 
if a man wants to be treated with respect he shall be respectful not a jerk.

So now you call me names because I chose to block your inane posts? If that's the best a Russian can do, the Russians are a very sorry people indeed.
 
Gee whizz i'm sooooo late to this 'tankfest'. Wow.....I've never seen so many threads blocked in a row. This is even better than Mitch returning under the guise of a cartoon character.:wink2:

As soon as folks start quoting statistics and things like my countries bigger than your country and meaner and nastier etc etc we all know where this is heading.

**n to read though. {sm2}
 
So now you call me names because I chose to block your inane posts? If that's the best a Russian can do, the Russians are a very sorry people indeed.


A man joined to a bunch of stupid teens to make **n of somebody can not keep his dignity.


Quote Originally Posted by theBaron View Post
LMAO!

Y'know, I was blocking tank, because I thought it'd be a waste of time to read any more of his posts. But you guys are having such **n with him, that I've got to unblock him. Then I can get the **ll context. Keep it up, guys!

Prost!
Brad
 
A man joined to a bunch of stupid teens to make **n of somebody can not keep his dignity.


Serge, old boy, a man whose arguments are so lacking that he has to resort to calling his opponents names has no dignity.

Keep it up. You might goad yourself into getting banned from the forum.

Prost!
Brad
 
Serge, old boy, a man whose arguments are so lacking that he has to resort to calling his opponents names has no dignity.

Keep it up. You might goad yourself into getting banned from the forum.

Prost!
Brad

”don't play with fire if you can't handle the burn”
 
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