What Scale is any figure line really? (1 Viewer)

... I don't see how you came up with part of your conclusions ...

I was looking solely at the length of the Brown Bess as an indicator of scale and did not relate it back to the height of a figure.:) As you stated in your first post: "... In the last K&C thread on this, Ken made a good theoretical point that if you use the size of a item that does not change, as in a vehicle or weapon, then you can Divine the scale from that ... For Napoleonic, he used the example of a Brown Bess, which should be 58.25 inches (1479.55mm) in real life."

I divided Ken's given length of the Brown Bess, 1479.55 mm, by 30, 31 and 32 to get the scale length, then compared that scale length to your measurements of the Brown Bess from various manufacturers to arrive at my conclusions.

For example, if a figure is supposed to be 1/30 scale, then the Brown Bess should be 1479.55/30 or 49.31 mm. Matt states 1st Legion is 1/30 scale, so the scale length of the Brown Bess of these figures should be 49.31 mm. You measured the length as 48.75 mm. 49.31 mm - 48.75 mm = 0.56 mm or 0.56 mm too short. I did these calculations using the other lengths you measured to arrive at my conclusions of the Brown Bess being "too short" or "too long."

Now, the reality is that measurements that are 0.56 mm too short or 0.23 mm too long are so miniscule that most collectors will not preceive the difference.:)

... I would note that I initially said nothing about who was closest to anything. I just noted my measurements and the relative indicated scales.;) I did not do this to criticize anyone; simply to note that some commonly stated notions do not test out.;)

I did not interpret your statements as being critical, and I hope my comments are also not being interpreted as a criticism of any manufacturer.:)

... I also question whether 54mm equates to 1/32. That depends on whether you are using the tip of the head or the eyes and once you decide that, what average person height you are assuming. 54mm to the eyes is 58 to 59 mm to the head which would give you an average person height of 1740-1770mm, which as I noted is 5ft, 9 inches in change. That is a reasonable average height for European military males in the 19th century.

The problem is that some manufacturers use sole of feet to top of head while others are using sole of feet to eyes, with all saying their figures are the same scale. For example, I think Ken of East of India once posted that his figures are 1/32, that 5'8" was the average height used, and that the correct measurement is to the top of the head. As stated above, I just compared the scale length of the Brown Bess to your measurements and did not look at the heights of figures, which I agree is wildly inconsistent.:eek:

... I am not sure what in my post prompted that remark? I said nothing about my reasons, subjective or otherwise and specifically noted that each persons own eye would be the best guide. As Joe would say, just the facts [sir][ma’am], just the facts.:D;)

I apologize if you thought I commenting on your post.:eek: My closing statement was more a comment on the many posts where forum members attack each other for their subjective views. Like you said, each person's own eye is the best guide.:)
 
To me, scale as in size (including bulk) is important, but figure syle is also important, when you're thinking of placing them side by side.
An example: I think the New Britains glossy figures and Imperial Productions glossy figures are quite compatible, sizewise and stylewise, although they are obviously different. I have them mixed up (colonial sets). Britains and Imperial seem to be 54mm scale. But other 54mm brands, like Trophy, Tradition or Little Legion, to me blend well together but not with Britains or Imperial glossy figures.
Also heard somewhere that K&C's weapons were a little «overscaled» on purpose (it's a style thing and I like it a lot), so possibly measuring the weapons is no clear indication of real scale...

Paulo
 
That is interesting but to be fair, there is a range of horse size, just as there is for people.
The minimum current official size for horses is 14.2 hands (1480mm) but certainly ponies reasonably ridable by adults can be 14 hands (1422mm) or less. Riding horses can also be 18.2 hands or more (1879mm), which would give more than a 30% range in height. This is much akin to human males which can range from less than 5ft to more than 6ft, 8 inches (also more than 30%). Maybe we should say it is not the height but how you use it.:eek:;):D

That is also a good point, but as these are the Queen's guards, the horses are bred to be uniform in size, colour etc...
 
That is also a good point, but as these are the Queen's guards, the horses are bred to be uniform in size, colour etc...
Ah that is a good point as well. What breed are they anyway?

I can tell you that even with strict breeding goals there is a pretty good size range. The Holsteiner I have had for many years had a 16.0 mother and a 16.1 father and was 16 hands as a 3 year old; now he is almost 17.2. His full brother two years later ended up at only 16.0 even. Maybe though those selected for the Guard are subject to some height restrictions, are they?
 
Ah that is a good point as well. What breed are they anyway?

I can tell you that even with strict breeding goals there is a pretty good size range. The Holsteiner I have had for many years had a 16.0 mother and a 16.1 father and was 16 hands as a 3 year old; now he is almost 17.2. His full brother two years later ended up at only 16.0 even. Maybe though those selected for the Guard are subject to some height restrictions, are they?

The horses used for the household cavalry are usually purchased when they are about 3-4 years old. The majority are Irish draught horses and are imported from Ireland. The Riding Master & Regimental Vet officer looks for black horses that are minimum 16h and greys that are minimum 15.2h
 
To me, scale as in size (including bulk) is important, but figure syle is also important, when you're thinking of placing them side by side.
An example: I think the New Britains glossy figures and Imperial Productions glossy figures are quite compatible, sizewise and stylewise, although they are obviously different. I have them mixed up (colonial sets). Britains and Imperial seem to be 54mm scale. But other 54mm brands, like Trophy, Tradition or Little Legion, to me blend well together but not with Britains or Imperial glossy figures.
Also heard somewhere that K&C's weapons were a little «overscaled» on purpose (it's a style thing and I like it a lot), so possibly measuring the weapons is no clear indication of real scale...

Paulo

I agree Paulo, as different manufacturers use different methods when calculated height of a figure the stated scale of a figure is largely irrelevant. Consequently the molding style, paint finish and type of base used is much more relevant to collectors than the stated scale of the different figures. Granted the length of a weapon provides a common factor but that is also of no consequence to most collectors as they are far more interested in knowing if the figures from Manufacturer A will fit in ok with those from B.

A good example of the above is the NMA German Mortar Crew set which fits in well with K & C Waffen SS displays because the body style, bases and finish (matte camo patterns) are very similar. This is despite the NMA figures being smaller at 1/32 scale, the difference in figure size just isn't noticeable to most collectors.
 
Scale is fine will assume that 1/30th is where we are at. First Legion figures are very well proportioned. If you were to use the size of other parts of the body as opposed to musket length, certain manufacturers figures would in real life, have hands like shovels and heads like basketballs.

FL figures look great and attention to detail is excellent I particularly like the Photo etched sword on NAP0090 which demonstrates FLs desire to go that extra yard.

keep the standards up Matt and sales will take care of themselves

Looking forward to recieving my next order hopefully today.
 
I don't worry about the numbers, I actually worry about whether it looks good to display figures from different manufacturers side by side.

IMHO FL don't look good when placed next to K&C. Britains look ok when next to both FL or K&C.

I got my only Britains figure (the Empress Dragoon General) and I love having him to command my K&C Empress Dragoons.

As for my FL I've everyone of them up to date and I don't know how to display them.

Pics will come soon.
 
I don't worry about the numbers, I actually worry about whether it looks good to display figures from different manufacturers side by side.

IMHO FL don't look good when placed next to K&C. Britains look ok when next to both FL or K&C.

I got my only Britains figure (the Empress Dragoon General) and I love having him to command my K&C Empress Dragoons.

As for my FL I've everyone of them up to date and I don't know how to display them.

Pics will come soon.
Everyone to date; now this is impressive mate. Sounds like pictures are indeed in order.:cool:

Yes the numbers alone can be disceiving. Hence the need for the ole
Craftsman model 1019 Laboratory Edition, Signature Series, optical sensors. The kind used by Caltech high energy physicists and NASA engineers; recently calibrated by top members of the state and federal Departments of Weights and Measures... to be dead on b*lls accurate! Its an industry term.:D Pity they are limited edition.;):D
 
Originally Posted by oberstoskar


IMHO FL don't look good when placed next to K&C. Britains look ok when next to both FL or K&C.

I think he must joking or mistyped? ''FL DONT LOOK GOOD PLACED NEXT TO K&C'',If anything you must mean the other way round surely:confused:
 
I hope by this you mean that K&C and FL figures don't match in style, not that K&C figures make First Legion figures look bad!!! ;)
Display them next to other First Legion figures of course!!!
Matt, he said he has everyone you have released to date; so what do you think he meant?;):D
 
Originally Posted by oberstoskar


IMHO FL don't look good when placed next to K&C. Britains look ok when next to both FL or K&C.

I think he must joking or mistyped? ''FL DONT LOOK GOOD PLACED NEXT TO K&C'',If anything you must mean the other way round surely:confused:

The guy is Cantonese and I don't think English is his first language - so let's make some general allowances here.
What I think he meant is that FL and K&C are incompatible when placed next to each other due to the general difference in height, bulk and sheer style & star quality, FL figures generally better paintwork and FL figures generally better sculpting.

The rest of the collecting world might as well face up to facts. K&C products are generally Toy Soldiers, (and nuthin' wrong with that), while FL's figures are genuine MINIATURE FIGURINES.

Generally, Cheers to All
Lt General Heid esq
 
Scale is fine will assume that 1/30th is where we are at. First Legion figures are very well proportioned. If you were to use the size of other parts of the body as opposed to musket length, certain manufacturers figures would in real life, have hands like shovels and heads like basketballs.

FL figures look great and attention to detail is excellent I particularly like the Photo etched sword on NAP0090 which demonstrates FLs desire to go that extra yard.

keep the standards up Matt and sales will take care of themselves

Looking forward to recieving my next order hopefully today.

I think this just about sums it up! :)

Jeff
 
The guy is Cantonese and I don't think English is his first language - so let's make some general allowances here.
What I think he meant is that FL and K&C are incompatible when placed next to each other due to the general difference in height, bulk and sheer style & star quality, FL figures generally better paintwork and FL figures generally better sculpting.

The rest of the collecting world might as well face up to facts. K&C products are generally Toy Soldiers, (and nuthin' wrong with that), while FL's figures are genuine MINIATURE FIGURINES.

Generally, Cheers to All
Lt General Heid esq

Allowances made and couldn't agree more with your above statement.I dont like the phrase 'toy soldiers' i certainly wouldn't let my kids play with any of them and they are a bit too expensive to be classed as toys.I suppose we have to except thats how most are described which is understandable as most do have a toy like look about them.After saying that i cant come close to calling FLs that, proper 'model soldiers' far more appropriate.Not all but many K&C do have that 'toy look' about them and yet others dont. Inconsistency imo is the biggest fault with K&C.
 
Oh, I know what he meant, I just wanted to make sure all of YOU knew what he meant! ;)
By YOU, I assume you mean those here that have not yet had the pleasure of starting a collection of your figures.;):D The rest of us knew precisely what he meant of course.:cool:
 

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