whats up with CS scale?? (1 Viewer)

[Mitch]

Guys...

Most know I am have big respect for what CS has brought to the party. I have collected their sets from very early on buying a good few of their first run of Berlin troops. I think, it would be fair to say, that scale has been one of the characteristics of CS from day one and has stayed with them. Early troops were larger and, came back more in line when the DAK range began. They have then continued producing innovative sets with great animation since. Scale again, raised its head on the release of the first Tiger I's and, followed with some issues about the size of their US releases and, from a short while scale was diffinitevely applied as bang on 1/30th.

Then came the wittman Tiger 1 and, it was huge and, sadly, it was the straw that broke the camels back for me, and, I did not order any of them as they were rather large shall we say!

So, since then I have looked on with pleasure when sets are released and, just continued collecting the berlin range as most know its a personal fav (take the boy out of newcastle but, you can't take the nazi out of him!!!!)

However, this morning neil sent me a Jagdpanther to repaint for him and, with dread at the scale this thing would be in comparison to the Tiger I was, (and the reason for the long winded post) very surprised and pleased to see it was a very good scale. It is slightly larger than the old K&C (well, that was 1/32nd) but, would work with it at a huge push and, sits very well indeed with the HB jagdpanthers IMO.

My question is to Brian and, anyone else who wishes to enter the discussion was the Tiger I an anomaly in scale?

I will now have to begin pulling in a few sets I have passed over since the tiger because of the stand alone feature I did not want with the little collection I have.

Never really doubted the detail and as said on here ''bang for buck'' but, the jagdpanther is a very nice release and, I will have to buy one now
Mitch

 

[maddadicus]

Guys...

Most know I am have big respect for what CS has brought to the party. I have collected their sets from very early on buying a good few of their first run of Berlin troops. I think, it would be fair to say, that scale has been one of the characteristics of CS from day one and has stayed with them. Early troops were larger and, came back more in line when the DAK range began. They have then continued producing innovative sets with great animation since. Scale again, raised its head on the release of the first Tiger I's and, followed with some issues about the size of their US releases and, from a short while scale was diffinitevely applied as bang on 1/30th.

Then came the wittman Tiger 1 and, it was huge and, sadly, it was the straw that broke the camels back for me, and, I did not order any of them as they were rather large shall we say!

So, since then I have looked on with pleasure when sets are released and, just continued collecting the berlin range as most know its a personal fav (take the boy out of newcastle but, you can't take the nazi out of him!!!!)

However, this morning neil sent me a Jagdpanther to repaint for him and, with dread at the scale this thing would be in comparison to the Tiger I was, (and the reason for the long winded post) very surprised and pleased to see it was a very good scale. It is slightly larger than the old K&C (well, that was 1/32nd) but, would work with it at a huge push and, sits very well indeed with the HB jagdpanthers IMO.

My question is to Brian and, anyone else who wishes to enter the discussion was the Tiger I an anomaly in scale?

I will now have to begin pulling in a few sets I have passed over since the tiger because of the stand alone feature I did not want with the little collection I have.

Never really doubted the detail and as said on here ''bang for buck'' but, the jagdpanther is a very nice release and, I will have to buy one now
Mitch

I am in complete agreement with Mitch on CS on again, off again love affair with 1/28 scale. I was a regular collector of CS, until their recent vehicles' size dwarfed what 1/30 scale should have been. Many collectors, rather than take CS to task over the glaring inconsistencies of the scale of their recent stuff, have made excuses for CS, held their noses and bought their product anyway. " I will just display them separate from other companies legit 1/30 scale offerings" , " but look at the detail and option bang for the financial buck ." ( same folks who probably buy ice cream 6 for a dollar ,without a freezer. Sure most of the gallons melted ,but it was a great bargain..) Like Mitch and others, all we ever asked was any mfg. be up front about errors and scale issues. Like Mitch, I have really wanted to buy CS stuff again. And so I have my dealer actually measuring new CS product as it comes in, to see if I can live with it being close to 1/30. Michael

 

[Firebat]

UUUUUUUGH...............Size / Scale problems throughout the toy soldier world

 

[lancer]

I understand the concerns in regards to vehicle scale. I, on the other hand, have always been bothered by the figure scale. By this I mean the relative size of the figures to the vehicles. I have no problem with the KC or CS figure size, except in relation to their respective vehicles. The figures were always too large. As I said in some other thread, the Tigers and Panthers were huge vehicles and dwarfed the human beings around them. This aspect was missing in the TS world prior to the CS issue of Wittmann's last Tiger. I know that it doesn't fit with previous Tiger I's issued by whoever, but it does fit the figures that are issued by everyone doing matte WW2. The CS Tiger was the first Tiger I that made all my soldiers appear to be correctly proportioned, to the vehicle. I was very pleased with it. I do not display it with other, earlier, Tiger I's made by KC or CS but it fits fine with the CS King Tigers and other non-Tiger vehicles. The fact that the new CS Tiger is larger than other issue Tiger I's doesn't bother me a bit as I am very happy to finally have a Tiger I that makes my grenadiers able to hide behind it without ducking their heads. Undersize vehicles really bothered me, regardless of stated scale, because the manufacturers had taken a stand on figure size regardless of whether the figure-vehicle proportions looked right or not. The big CS Tiger is a winner for me, even if it is a stand alone Tiger I. JMO. -- Al

 

[The Collectors Showcase]

As we've stated before we just felt that vehicle scale should be righted, and this we started doing on the Panther. So each vehicle starting with the CS00356 is now a true blue 1/30th scale: pretty cool huh?

And there is so much more to come!

Cheers All!

Brian

 

[Mitch]

Brian..

Thanks for responding look forward to seeing the new releases. Anything for the westcoaster by chance??
Mitch

As we've stated before we just felt that vehicle scale should be righted, and this we started doing on the Panther. So each vehicle starting with the CS00356 is now a true blue 1/30th scale: pretty cool huh?

And there is so much more to come!

Cheers All!

Brian

 

[Vezzolf]

I understand the concerns in regards to vehicle scale. I, on the other hand, have always been bothered by the figure scale. By this I mean the relative size of the figures to the vehicles. I have no problem with the KC or CS figure size, except in relation to their respective vehicles. The figures were always too large. As I said in some other thread, the Tigers and Panthers were huge vehicles and dwarfed the human beings around them. This aspect was missing in the TS world prior to the CS issue of Wittmann's last Tiger. I know that it doesn't fit with previous Tiger I's issued by whoever, but it does fit the figures that are issued by everyone doing matte WW2. The CS Tiger was the first Tiger I that made all my soldiers appear to be correctly proportioned, to the vehicle. I was very pleased with it. I do not display it with other, earlier, Tiger I's made by KC or CS but it fits fine with the CS King Tigers and other non-Tiger vehicles. The fact that the new CS Tiger is larger than other issue Tiger I's doesn't bother me a bit as I am very happy to finally have a Tiger I that makes my grenadiers able to hide behind it without ducking their heads. Undersize vehicles really bothered me, regardless of stated scale, because the manufacturers had taken a stand on figure size regardless of whether the figure-vehicle proportions looked right or not. The big CS Tiger is a winner for me, even if it is a stand alone Tiger I. JMO. -- Al

Good point....Most matt figures that match well with CS Tiger is 1:28th anyway

 

[Go for Broke]

Regardless of scale, I want the AFVs to match in size with the soldiers. I have over 100 AFVs, most imho, undersized. The tank crewmen are always alot smaller than the foot soldiers. I applaud Brian in his effort to have "right" sized AFVs for the soldiers. If its make my 100 AFV collection out-of-place, so be it.

 

[Hunter Rose]

I too am in the camp that likes the larger vehicles that make the oversized figures look right. I have the newer King and country Snow Tiger. Its a very nice tank but when you put figures next to it it looks like the size of a Panzer IV. Ultimately everyone will have their own personal preference.

 

[noli-poli]

I stopped buying CS. They have great products but I could not display them side by side with KC, TG and Figarti. The M8 Stuart Howitzer is so huge about the same size as the Honor Bound, KC and Figarti Sherman's. The M4A3E8 Sherman is also too big! It dwarfs my other Shermans. I was hoping that CS could fill the void left by the other manufacturers. I will soon be posting these on E-Bay

N-P

 

[uksubs]

In general i'M not a great lover of the 1/28 scale stuff as it just take up to much space and is to in your face and that why i like collecting Figarti stuff and would buy First Legion as it a smaller scale .

 

[Blowtorch]

The M4A3E8 Sherman is also too big! It dwarfs my other Shermans.
N-P

It dwarfs my Tigers! {sm3}

 

[Mitch]

Guys...

It must be then quite hard as a manufacturer when collectors like and dislike the larger AFV's. I must say that the jagdpanther is back to 1/30 and will work with most manufacturers AFV's and figures. We all know that the figures from manufacturers are bigger in scale but, the option is to reduce the figures in scale and leave the AFV's alone.

Now, who would want to see the mainstream manufacturers resize their releases to fit the AFV's which, generally, of late, are close if not spot on??

That would mean every collector would have in essence, two collections. It would also raise the question of reducing price per figure (but I could see the counter argument being they would have to be more expensive as the chinese need more talent to paint smaller items!!!!)

I don't mind figure size being larger but, really want consistancy across the board about AFV's. Thanks for the responses
Mitch

 

[braddinpa]

Hi Mitch

Responding to your question. This is just my opinion and how I feel. In a perfect world we would have true 1/30 scale both in AFV and figures. But we don't. The figures are closer to 1/28th scale. If we go with the 1/30th scale for AFV's. Then the AFVs won't match up with the figures. I hate oversized crew members who wouldn't even fit into the turret. I have been to the Proving Grounds in Maryland. The Panther is a biggggg beast where a normal sized person doesn't even go up to the deck. I guess to make a long story short. I like CS philosophy. Keep the figures and AFV in the same scale and since the figure norm is 1/28. I am ok with that. Again. This is my personal opinion and it is probably wrong

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Guys...

It must be then quite hard as a manufacturer when collectors like and dislike the larger AFV's. I must say that the jagdpanther is back to 1/30 and will work with most manufacturers AFV's and figures. We all know that the figures from manufacturers are bigger in scale but, the option is to reduce the figures in scale and leave the AFV's alone.

Now, who would want to see the mainstream manufacturers resize their releases to fit the AFV's which, generally, of late, are close if not spot on??

That would mean every collector would have in essence, two collections. It would also raise the question of reducing price per figure (but I could see the counter argument being they would have to be more expensive as the chinese need more talent to paint smaller items!!!!)

I don't mind figure size being larger but, really want consistancy across the board about AFV's. Thanks for the responses
Mitch

I don't expect to see conformity. I think that the modern problem started when K&C began doing AFVs in 1:32 and the figures in approx. 1:28 - probably because people liked the larger figures. HB produced some 1:30 scale AFVs, then so did K&C and now most of the WWII market is AFVs at 1:30 and figures at 1:28. I think it would be ideal if the AFVs were 1:30 and the figures were 1:28 and they looked proper beside the AFVs. But that's impossible because they are different scales. I think all this thrashing around over scale are attempts to solve an insolvable problem.

Terry

 

[Mitch]

braddinpa...

Its your opinion so, your not wrong
Mitch

Terry...

The way to solve it is make the figures in 1/30 scale which I mentioned. How many would go for that though?? Its well known the scales people have used in the hobby and the figures are larger. Quite a move to make the AFV's match the figures when many like mixed compatability but, the Jagdpanther fits well with most of the other AFV's I have that mixed it with whilst having this AFV before starting to repaint it

Mind, I don't see the figure sizes changing any time soon so, in that respect it does seem we are where we are
Mitch

 

[Firebat]

What a mess...I don't know what the answer is at this point.....If Brian is going to proportion vehicles and soldiers correctly and I assume FL is making the same claim. Well that is a start.

If anyone is selling TCS Wittman 222 Tiger LMK.

 

[Mitch]

Firebat..

Even FL who its often perpetuated as bang on scale has had its issues with scale, even from the start and, continues to do. Look at the difference in size posted recently of the crusades per other figures!!!

My whole point for this thread was that the Jagdpanther is a great release and, back to being compatable with other AFV's out there. That must mean its come back into scale where it will be smaller in comparison with the figures but, I can live with that as the AFV scale for me, is more important than the scale of figures. We all are aware that human size varies and, I accept that in terms of figures say being taller than a set point on an AFV. I find no excuse for a pre determined and well known height length width of an AFV to be played with.
Mitch
Mitch

 

[Firebat]

Firebat..

Even FL who its often perpetuated as bang on scale has had its issues with scale, even from the start and, continues to do. Look at the difference in size posted recently of the crusades per other figures!!!

My whole point for this thread was that the Jagdpanther is a great release and, back to being compatable with other AFV's out there. That must mean its come back into scale where it will be smaller in comparison with the figures but, I can live with that as the AFV scale for me, is more important than the scale of figures. We all are aware that human size varies and, I accept that in terms of figures say being taller than a set point on an AFV. I find no excuse for a pre determined and well known height length width of an AFV to be played with.
Mitch
Mitch

Yea the Jagdpanthers are cool.....And I feel the same way as you about the rest.

 

[Blowtorch]

For fun I expanded Bradford's drawing of the PSW233 to 1/30, & both K&C & FL fit it. I wonder what CS will be? ^&grin