When Will Prices Stabilize (1 Viewer)

[Phantom Warrior]

Only just over a year ago, people were calling the hobby the "Golden Age" of toy collecting because of the increased choice from both old and new companies and increased quality of AFVs and figures. With the very rapid and very large increases in prices since then, no one is calling it the Golden Age any more. But as all good things must end, so must all bad things end. At some point, toy soldier prices will stabilize either by moving production to a cheaper spot (maybe the USA), further reduction in the number of figures in an AFV set, reduction in scale, change in the materials the figures are made in, reduction in quality, etc.

The question is at what price level and when will the price stabilization occur?

Terry

 

[Cornwallis]

Lets hope sooner rather than later, up until fairly recently I was paying $21.00 for single figures which having been retired have been replaced by a new series of figures around the $32.00 mark.

I've seen on another post in the K&C section that some new figures are being released at $42.00 to $58.00. {eek3}

What frustrates me the most is that I cannot not get anywhere near the amount of figures I want to make a battlion, company etc because the figures are retired before you know it and obviously the higher prices means I get less figures for my money.

Completely appreciate the fact that the manufacturers have got higher production costs but for me on a modest salary I will have to drawn the line somewhere and fear that the average single figure will be out of my reach within another 18 months to 2 years at the current rate of increases...

 

[lancer]

I assume prices will stabilize when the manufacturers have pried the last dollar bill from my cold, dead fingers.{eek3}:rolleyes2::tongue: -- Al, (with credit to the NRA)

 

[Cornwallis]

I assume prices will stabilize when the manufacturers have pried the last dollar bill from my cold, dead fingers.{eek3}:rolleyes2::tongue: -- Al, (with credit to the NRA)

^&grin{sm4}^&grin{sm4} Good one, made me crack up at my desk here at work!

 

[desk11desk12]

Only just over a year ago, people were calling the hobby the "Golden Age" of toy collecting because of the increased choice from both old and new companies and increased quality of AFVs and figures. With the very rapid and very large increases in prices since then, no one is calling it the Golden Age any more. But as all good things must end, so must all bad things end. At some point, toy soldier prices will stabilize either by moving production to a cheaper spot (maybe the USA), further reduction in the number of figures in an AFV set, reduction in scale, change in the materials the figures are made in, reduction in quality, etc.

The question is at what price level and when will the price stabilization occur?

Terry

Terry,

I agree with much of what you say but not all. Price equilibrium is still in flux and probably won't settle until currency rates, economies, employment stablize. That isn't going to happen any time soon IMO.

Unless this is a pricing test by KC to *****s price boundries (I don't think so) then opportunities are open to other competitors to capture your dollar and earn your market share. There are choices out there.

If competitors cannot, then contraction of sales will occur in the market and right-sizing leaving a "connoisseur class" and maybe a much lesser quality/ less expensive class (as yet to be defined) IMO. If that happens we all lose because innovation like we've seen over last 5 years dissappears and so do most of us from the market.

Carlos

 

[desk11desk12]

If this continues...anyone have any idea what effects it will have on the secondary market?

Carlos

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I have a feeling that prices are nearing a peak and will stabilise to a great extent by the end of the year. I also think that the Typhoon is probably the high water price mark for K&C aircraft as additional aircraft are much larger and would be even more expensive - so I look to a slowdown or even an end to the K&C aircraft series. Demand all you want but I do not expect to see a Stuka, p-40 Lightning, Mosquito. The only other aircraft direction would be the single seat fighters of the Pacific (Zero, F4F Wildcat, P-40 Warhawk, and F6F Hellcat)

Terry

 

[lancer]

I have a feeling that prices are nearing a peak and will stabilise to a great extent by the end of the year. I also think that the Typhoon is probably the high water price mark for K&C aircraft as additional aircraft are much larger and would be even more expensive - so I look to a slowdown or even an end to the K&C aircraft series. Demand all you want but I do not expect to see a Stuka, p-40 Lightning, Mosquito. The only other aircraft direction would be the single seat fighters of the Pacific (Zero, F4F Wildcat, P-40 Warhawk, and F6F Hellcat)

Terry

Interesting point, Terry. With the very high price of the Typhoon, where does KC go with future releases? Certainly a Stuka, Lightning, or Mosquito are going to bust throught the $400 level. I suppose KC could go with ETO or MTO fighters on a repeating basis, but just how many different paint schemes of the same fighter could they sell? At this point, the shunned PTO, with it's many single-seat/engine fighter planes could be the way to go. Will be interesting to see what happens. I just know that at KC Typhoon price levels (or KC P-47 price levels, for that matter), I have to pursue other options. -- Al

 

[Cyber Field Marshall]

When prices will stabilize is such a big problem of global economics that one can never pin down an exact time. I'm pretty sure prices will continue to rise, maybe more in line with inflation instead of the meteoric rise we've been treated to lately. :redface2:

As for the secondary market thats an interesting issue. It sure makes existing sets look cheap by comparison to the new ones. I'd have to believe that this phenomenon will push prices in the secondary market up a little bit for most items and a lot for key pieces. ( I'm thinking of today's Figarti V1-V2 post ). :smile2:

 

[Combat]

Some of the discussion on this board drifts toward the false conclusion that only the manufacturer has a role in deciding upon pricing. For example, if labor or other costs rise in China then that justifies a price increase. And collectors will pay it because it is a legitimate cost of doing business. In reality, pricing points are set not just by the manufacturer but how much customers are willing to pay for a product (even if the price increases themselves are "justified"). There is a point at which collectors will stop buying or limit their purchases. We have hit that point. Higher prices, a flood of product, and collectors apparently spending less (check reports of recent show attendance) = trouble. A dealer recently told me sales are down 50%. I'm guessing some companies go under and others cut back on releases.

 

[uksubs]

I have a feeling that prices are nearing a peak and will stabilise to a great extent by the end of the year. I also think that the Typhoon is probably the high water price mark for K&C aircraft as additional aircraft are much larger and would be even more expensive - so I look to a slowdown or even an end to the K&C aircraft series. Demand all you want but I do not expect to see a Stuka, p-40 Lightning, Mosquito. The only other aircraft direction would be the single seat fighters of the Pacific (Zero, F4F Wildcat, P-40 Warhawk, and F6F Hellcat)

Terry

When you look at what Figarti charge for there He 219 witch is $399.00 for a twin engine fighter single engine fighter prices should not be to bad :rolleyes2:{sm3}{sm2}

 

[ucla1967]

Although this forum is primarily populated by those who collect individually sculpted figures in 60mm "action" poses with matte finishes, there is another, albeit, smaller group of collectors who buy more traditional 54mm, glossy figures. There is no question that while King & Country, Figarti, Collector's Showcase, First Legion, etc., have been producing toy soldiers and AFVs that have reached an unimaged level of quality and creativity, their prices have continued to increase to the point where price elasticity of demand is becoming a problem for some collectors.

I belong to the forum's sub-set of collectors who, although I have some of the afore mentioned 60mm figures in my collection, mainly collect traditional toy soldiers; to be completely honest, I can probably be more accurately described as an accumulator rather than a collector. And as such, I could never afford to accumulate the number of 60mm matte figures that I can with 54mm glossies given the wide disparity in prices between those two types.

My inability to find Hiriart toy soldiers from Uruguay out here in California, led me, out of frustration, to start importing them for me and my friend, Bob Walker. This has now ballooned to the point where I am not only selling Hiriart at the West Coaster, but also buying them for more than two dozen other collectors. Which brings me to this point about price increases in our hobby: The weak U.S. dollar vis-a-vis the EURO and British Pound has impacted even the tradition toy soldier manufacturers. Hiriart has increased their prices to me four times, in four years, which means that I am now paying 36 per cent more than I was in 2007. Since this is NOT a business for me, I have only increased my prices by 13 percent. I am selling Hiriart figures at what works out to be $13.89 each or $125 for a set of nine figures, but if this was a business, I would have to charge $150 per set to maintain my original sales margins based on the 2007 price of $110 per set.

I fear for our hobby on several levels. First of all, we are becoming fewer in absolute numbers as older collectors pass on or stop collecting. The number of new collectors entering the hobby is not keeping up with that inevitable attrition. Secondly, as the quality and creativity of product offerings continue to go up so do the prices on a per figure or AFV basis. Even those who would like to buy more can't afford to because of the higher prices. This in turn means that manufacturers must charge more to maintain their top line gross sales levels and profit margins. This creates a vicious circle which I really don't see a solution to.

 

[damian]

I think the decline in the USD is responsible for the comments that many American based collectors are expressing on these threads. My own currency has dramatically improved against the weak USD so for me it has become much more reasonable in some ways. About ten years ago the ZAR was about 11 to the Dollar. It is now sitting at just over 6 to the dollar so for me it is definitely a good time to be buying in dollars. Obviously the manufacturers have increased the dollar price in order to compensate for the decline in value of the USD. How long this will continue is unclear. The world economy is in a mess as far as I can see and we are in many ways victims of much larger forces.

 

[lancer]

Although this forum is primarily populated by those who collect individually sculpted figures in 60mm "action" poses with matte finishes, there is another, albeit, smaller group of collectors who buy more traditional 54mm, glossy figures. There is no question that while King & Country, Figarti, Collector's Showcase, First Legion, etc., have been producing toy soldiers and AFVs that have reached an unimaged level of quality and creativity, their prices have continued to increase to the point where price elasticity of demand is becoming a problem for some collectors.

I belong to the forum's sub-set of collectors who, although I have some of the afore mentioned 60mm figures in my collection, mainly collect traditional toy soldiers; to be completely honest, I can probably be more accurately described as an accumulator rather than a collector. And as such, I could never afford to accumulate the number of 60mm matte figures that I can with 54mm glossies given the wide disparity in prices between those two types.

My inability to find Hiriart toy soldiers from Uruguay out here in California, led me, out of frustration, to start importing them for me and my friend, Bob Walker. This has now ballooned to the point where I am not only selling Hiriart at the West Coaster, but also buying them for more than two dozen other collectors. Which brings me to this point about price increases in our hobby: The weak U.S. dollar vis-a-vis the EURO and British Pound has impacted even the tradition toy soldier manufacturers. Hiriart has increased their prices to me four times, in four years, which means that I am now paying 36 per cent more than I was in 2007. Since this is NOT a business for me, I have only increased my prices by 13 percent. I am selling Hiriart figures at what works out to be $13.89 each or $125 for a set of nine figures, but if this was a business, I would have to charge $150 per set to maintain my original sales margins based on the 2007 price of $110 per set.

I fear for our hobby on several levels. First of all, we are becoming fewer in absolute numbers as older collectors pass on or stop collecting. The number of new collectors entering the hobby is not keeping up with that inevitable attrition. Secondly, as the quality and creativity of product offerings continue to go up so do the prices on a per figure or AFV basis. Even those who would like to buy more can't afford to because of the higher prices. This in turn means that manufacturers must charge more to maintain their top line gross sales levels and profit margins. This creates a vicious circle which I really don't see a solution to.

Great post, Mike. These are problems that the current manufacturers had better keep an eye towards solving. -- Al

 

[Louis Badolato]

If this continues...anyone have any idea what effects it will have on the secondary market?

Carlos

The effect its had on me is that I am focusing way more on the secondary market, particularly out-of-production cottage manufacturers. The items come along far less frequently (it has been a couple of months since the last Heco Tinplate Model was sold on ebay, and longer than that since a CJB models or Toy Army Workshop vehicle has been up for sale) and are often far less expensive than their present production counterparts, making participating in the hobby far less expensive each month.:wink2:

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Guys,

Great to see some glossy guys finally chime in to this sort of discussion. I have to say that I collect both glossy and matte but primarily I am a glossy guy so I havent been too deeply hit by the unbelievable rise in prices from some of the companies. 30 bucks a figure is about as high as I am willing to go and it has to be a pretty darn nice figure to get me to shell out this much money. Louis mentioned the secondary market which is great because I have been buying the bulk of my sets and figures via the secondary market for a long time and will only shell out top dollars for what I consider an exceptional set or figure. A couple of you guys know me well enough to probably guess that I havent paid full retail for more than 15 sets in the past 10 years and I am enjoying the collecting and the hunt for sets and figures more than ever. The prices for some figures now hitting 60 bucks for a single infantry figure is great for the guys who own the companies as long as they can get guys to pay that. But it could be a double edged sword as well especially with declining sales a least per the post made by Combat. So perhaps some of the big matte guys will finally have to reduce their prices or go the way of the dodo. Also if you wait long enough guys eventually you will find those figures at a much more realistic price. So my advice is to enjoy what you can afford and look at the secondary market and see whats what in the not too distant future.

Dave

 

[Napoleon1er]

I think prices will stabilize after the big companies (K&C, Britains, FL, JJD, Figarti, Frontline) have struck a balance between price, quality, and variety, which would possibly result in the elimination or downscaling of one or more of them. For example, FL can survive because it makes the highest quality figures with medium-small variety at a fair but higher end price ($50). Figarti and JJD both make very good quality pieces (though not as nice as FL) with unique items (but changing variety) at a medium price ($30). Frontline makes a huge variety of large sets of multiples, at a lesser detail, but at a very good price ($15-20). According to this, both FL and Frontline will prosper, and Figarti and JJD will do well as long as they maintain quality, prices, and the smaller size of their lines, while making unique and desirable figures. K&C makes good quality figures (equal to Britains, JJD, and Figarti), and does a huge variety and quantity, however,they charge premium prices ($50), making customers switch to alternative manufacturers with similar quality and lower prices, pr simply cut down on their purchases. Britains makes good quality figures (equal to K&C, JJD, and Figarti), with a limited number of releases, but great variety and unique pieces, and at a good price ($20-30). I predict K&C will either get cheaper, downsize, or drop quality in order to stay alive, and that Britains will grow due to their good quality and prices, on the condition that they maintain variety and unique lines, and slightly increase output.

That is my humble opinion, biased to Britains of course:redface2:. If any part offends anyone, I am very sorry that it does, and feel free to tell me so. But it's my entire, honest opinion.

Vive Napoleon,
Sandor:salute::

 

[nmrocks]

I collect 60mm but also flats, while this is truly a cottage industry the new sets come out at a rate a just a few a year across the hobby and I've not been active enough to see any change. the problem for me is it is a Eurocentric hobby and I'm seeing the same kind of cost increase do to the bludgeoning of the dollar vs. other currencies.
It's a double wammy I don't think people understand, the costs rising in China is enough to cause prices to rise, but you throw a devalued dollar on top and you see these price spikes.

 

[nysoldiers]

When the difference in price between K&C and FL is less than $10 per figure many more collectors will switch some or most of their spending to the latter. FL quality warrants a $10 plus differential.
The caveat, however, being that K&C has more variety that attracts a wider audience and a long history with loyal collectors. I must also add that K&C's value has appreciated over time and we don't see that with other makers yet.
I don't think the price increases from K&C are totally due to cost increases. They may want to put themselves in a more exclusive marketing category.
I agree that this could be a mistake but they do have many loyal collectors who will always find something to buy from them.
I spend less of my budget on K&C but still find many of their items hard to resist.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

When the difference in price between K&C and FL is less than $10 per figure many more collectors will switch some or most of their spending to the latter. FL quality warrants a $10 plus differential.
The caveat, however, being that K&C has more variety that attracts a wider audience and a long history with loyal collectors. I must also add that K&C's value has appreciated over time and we don't see that with other makers yet.
I don't think the price increases from K&C are totally due to cost increases. They may want to put themselves in a more exclusive marketing category.
I agree that this could be a mistake but they do have many loyal collectors who will always find something to buy from them.
I spend less of my budget on K&C but still find many of their items hard to resist.

I agree that K&C products retain their value very well over time. Too many times I have seen a simple $89.00 or $99.00 item sell for 4,5,6 times the initial purchase price. That is from first hand experience.