Who Cares About 1/30 Scale? (1 Viewer)

[jazzeum]

This question came to me a few minutes ago. Most of us here are 1/30 nuts, what with King and Country, Honour Bound and New Model Army. Let's face it, most people probably visiting this Board, for better or worse, are fans of that scale.

But outside of all the fans of this scale, whether or not they visit this Board, there are probably tons of people who are dedicated 54 fanatics who don't give a hoot about 1/30 and are probably the majority of collectors out there. When you go to shows, yes, you've got your 1/30 dealers but they're a strict minority, it seems to me, of all dealers out there.

Maybe we're over exaggerating our importance here. What do y'all think?

 

[noli-poli]

This question came to me a few minutes ago. Most of us here are 1/30 nuts, what with King and Country, Honour Bound and New Model Army. Let's face it, most people probably visiting this Board, for better or worse, are fans of that scale.

But outside of all the fans of this scale, whether or not they visit this Board, there are probably tons of people who are dedicated 54 fanatics who don't give a hoot about 1/30 and are probably the majority of collectors out there. When you go to shows, yes, you've got your 1/30 dealers but they're a strict minority, it seems to me, of all dealers out there.

Maybe we're over exaggerating our importance here. What do y'all think?

I do. Before K&C, I was a 54mm man...until the new sculpted K&C came along. There is simply no match in terms of quality and detailness of its toy soldiers. Though I wish K&C have vehicles with the detailness of the likes like FOV or Tamiya (which you have to assemble and paint), It is a league of its own.

I would like to compare K&C as the classic master paintings of old...a la Van Gogh, Picasso, Monet, etc.) vs.
mass produced art at Walmart, Michael's, Target, etc.

Just go to E-bay. It would attest to this K&C phenomenon just by the price they go for.

Of course, not to mention is the new master coming up on the horizon...Honor Bound!

MY POV. "Beauty is to the eye of the beholder!"

N-P

 

[wadepat]

This question came to me a few minutes ago. Most of us here are 1/30 nuts, what with King and Country, Honour Bound and New Model Army. Let's face it, most people probably visiting this Board, for better or worse, are fans of that scale.

But outside of all the fans of this scale, whether or not they visit this Board, there are probably tons of people who are dedicated 54 fanatics who don't give a hoot about 1/30 and are probably the majority of collectors out there. When you go to shows, yes, you've got your 1/30 dealers but they're a strict minority, it seems to me, of all dealers out there.

Maybe we're over exaggerating our importance here. What do y'all think?

Hi Brad,

I appreciate you raising this question. I do not know if 1/30 scale fans are exaggerating their importance or not. I think perhaps they are, but only time will provide the real answer.

What I do believe, however, is that since this forum and the Toy Soldier Chat forum are dominated by 1/30 fans, the atmosphere becomes intimidating for the 54mm collector. So often, Britains are bashed, Conte criticized, and other manufacturers are dismissed as having no significance. If you are a 54mm collector, why would you want your favorites and your collection for which you have so much pride subjected to negative reviews? In my opinion, the atmosphere is somewhat less than friendly toward the 54 mm collector. The 54 mm collector is almost placed in the position of having to forever defend his/her preferences. To me, this is a bit of a sad scenerio.

I have also wondered where the Dimestore collectors are. I know they are out there, but they do not participate on this forum. What about those collectors who focus on vintage figures? Where are they? The same question exists in my mind concerning the playset collectors.

As you know, I collect certain K&C lines (Battle of the Bulge, Ancient Egyptians, and, most recently, Napoleonics) and I have a very high appreciation of these figures, but I do not/will not limit my collection to only K&C or 1/30 scale figures. I find too much charm in the 54 mm figures and gloss finish figures as well as in the vintage sets to limit myself. I even collect Dimestores, but I rarely mention this fact on the forum. I collect post WW II Japanese figures, but I cannot recall anyone mentioning an interest in these figures on the forum. Most, though not all, members of this forum seem to have little interest in anything other than the 60 mm lines, so I do not try to initiate discussions of these items, though I doubtless could learn a great deal for other interested collectors.

I hope, as time progresses, the forum becomes increasingly friendly to a wider variety of collectors, for I believe we would all benefit from the increased participation from those collectors who have more diverse interests. Look at the reception Oz gets when he criticizes K&C. Look at the numerous posts in which members say that gloss finish figures do nothing for them. Further, look at the very frequent emphasis on the realism and accuracy depicted in figures. If you were one who highly prized the traditional toy soldier appearance, would you find this forum highly receptive to your tastes? I think not.

Several members have made the point that many 54 mm manufacturers seem to do a good business. How do they do so well if not because those manufacturers have a solid base of loyal customers? Shannon has made the comment that she hears both sides of the discussion concerning preferences toward matte vs. gloss figures, but most of what is seen on this forum are comments from those who have very strong preferences for the matte finished figures.

While I find this forum to be exciting, meaningful, and fun, I do think many collectors elect not to participate because it does not seem to include too many collectors whose interests lean toward other legitimate toy soldier collecting catagories. Is this the fault of K&C or 1/30 scale fans? No, not really. Other collectors are always free to come on line and make their opinions, preferences, questions, etc. known. However, if the atmosphere of the forum is that this is predominately a K&C or 1/30 scale forum, what would collectors with other interests find that is very meaningful to them? Another way of thinking about this issue is to ask the following question: Why would one join the K&C Collectors Club if one did not collect K&C? The forum seems a bit like that to me. Again, I hope that with time, the forum includes an increasing number of participants with broad, diverse collecting interests. I know I would benefit from their presence.

Finally, I hope this long response to your question is not interpreted as a criticism of the forum or of 1/30 scale fans. My response only represents observations I have made after a limited amount of time and participation here. I am certainly not unhappy with the warm reception I have received from other forum members and I have most certainly learned a great deal that has made me a better collector. And,...I am very grateful for the opportunity to participate and share this wonderful hobby with others!

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[Warrior]

Brad,
Interesting thread and you make some good points.

From a dealers perspective, I can tell you that my sales on K & C are about three times the total of all other manufacturers COMBINED. I did a show yesterday and over half of my total sales came from K & C. I can count on one hand how many Britains, Conte, HB, NMA, Figarti, ONTC and Conte sales I made yesterday; a grand total of ONE sale from all of those other manufacturers. I sold about 20 K & C items, this with three other K & C dealers in the room. There was noone else there selling HB and NMA, and only one other dealer with Conte, Figarti, ONTC and Britains.

I have noticed my custsomers fall into three catagories; those that collect just K & C, those that collect K & C, NMA and HB, and those that collect a little of everything. About 50% of my customers fall into #1, 35% into #2 and 15% into #3.

K & C makes far and away the best product on the market and I can say this with zero bias as I do not collect in that scale (as my pictures from my collection on the post a diorama thread will show); the sales numbers show it. I have many people at shows who ask strait away; "What new K & C sets do you have?" Hardly any ask about new sets from anyone else....................

 

[fishead19690]

I like 54mm and wish that K&C napoleonic were in 54mm so that I could mix them with my other napoleonics better. I also like to collect britains ,frontline and other companies along with castings and kits that I,ve painted and plastics that I paint and convert. I like matt finish figures and the more realism better detailed the figure the more I like them, so king and country are top on the list for that. I do find that the forum is a bit on the K&C worshipping side and heavy on the 1/30 scale but there are others that are into other stuff and I think that if you have other intrests you should just start posting them and see what kind of responce you get. The forum is mostly WWII guys here and then us napoleonic guys but I know that a few members also have intrest in other eras also so its not to bad here on this forum. I joined the other forum and I,ve never posted on it because they just don,t seem to have any intrest over there other than WWII. I wish that we could get more members to the forum with different intrests to liven up and expand the forum into new areas like plastics and kits and casting and have sections on the forum to trade ideas and photos of prodjects like converting plastics and kits and how to build dioramas and displays and figure painting tips and tricks and sections for the guys who like the gloss and old stuff and we would all have are own sections on the forum and could also cross over and meet each other on midle ground to exchange ideas and news. But thats in a perfect world as we tent to get into arguements about stupid stuff all the time like 1/30 is the best or this companies figures are better than that companies and matt is better than gloss ect..... The day we can make room for and try and get along with each other better, the more we,ll learn from each other and not scare off what could make this forum better. Whos to say that apples are better than oranges. I don,t know! just my thoughts sorry to ramble.

 

[Leadmen]

I like the 1/30 scale but like many older collectors I have plenty of 54mm stuff and I do like gloss and flat figures. I paint old Britains in gloss but also do military miniatures in flat. I have Dimestore and plastics from years of collecting. Many hours were spent chasing down pieces. I remember the early Chicago Shows when there was only a handfull of rooms with K&C. I thought the early figures were not very good with exgerrated painting and lining of figures in black.Now it is a pleasure to buy new K&C sets. I know Bill Lango started a toy soldier forum and nothing happens there. Few posts and his dimestore and Britain's threads get no posts. Last post was in the fall. I enjoy reading all the threads and like all scale of figures. Maybe I will post some 1/72 scale stuff. Long as everyone enjoys their niche, like Michael says I love it all. Leadmen

 

[maddadicus]

I collect about ( 70% )54mm and ( 30% )60mm. It used to be 90/10, but I have found the K/C Armor of late to be addictive. My problem is that I collect obscure mfg. For my ACW ,it is 54mm Edmunds Toy Soldiers and some Trophy ,all in gloss. My Napoleonics ,it is 54mm Mulberry Miniatures in matte. My WW1 is 54mm whoever in gloss. All of the mfg. that I buy from ,could be considered marginally known. Thus, if I start a topic about my collection, many of the forum might not have any interest. KC is easily the mfg. that gets the most buzz here. Michael

 

[Shannon Reuss]

I am always happy to add new categories to the forum but there has to be enough interest to carry a new category or soon the forum begins to look hollow. A "How-To" category sounds interesting to me and we have many collectors who make their own dioramas or kit-bash. I watch the miscellaneous posts in the "other manufacturers" category and when one particular company begins to show a following of several posts I usually give them their own subcategory and move the relevant post there. I would love to have 54mm speak up and post more frequently. I have been begging for Britains fans to post since the inception of the forum. Originally I planned to have a Dimestore section, one for flats, one for vintage and others for different scales but decided to wait and see if people had interests in those areas.
If you would like to see more categories so that our forum encompasses even more of the toy soldier collecting hobby just ask--but then be sure to support the new category with lively discussion and plenty of posts. The forum has almost limitless space and we can add countless categories. It's really just up to you the members as to what direction we go.
There's a lot more to the hobby than 1/30 scale and I'd love to see it represented here on the forum.
I look forward to hearing your ideas!
Regards,

 

[maddadicus]

I am always happy to add new categories to the forum but there has to be enough interest to carry a new category or soon the forum begins to look hollow. A "How-To" category sounds interesting to me and we have many collectors who make their own dioramas or kit-bash. I watch the miscellaneous posts in the "other manufacturers" category and when one particular company begins to show a following of several posts I usually give them their own subcategory and move the relevant post there. I would love to have 54mm speak up and post more frequently. I have been begging for Britains fans to post since the inception of the forum. Originally I planned to have a Dimestore section, one for flats, one for vintage and others for different scales but decided to wait and see if people had interests in those areas.
If you would like to see more categories so that our forum encompasses even more of the toy soldier collecting hobby just ask--but then be sure to support the new category with lively discussion and plenty of posts. The forum has almost limitless space and we can add countless categories. It's really just up to you the members as to what direction we go.
There's a lot more to the hobby than 1/30 scale and I'd love to see it represented here on the forum.
I look forward to hearing your ideas!
Regards,

I welcome the idea. On a toy train forum, that I frequent, it used to be just 3 rail O-Guage. Because , some operators felt left out, they started a 2-rail category ,as well as a S-Guage section, and although those categories do not have as much traffic as the main one, everyone is having their say.....It might be worth a poll ,so you know, or just make an executive decision and let loose the masses.....Michael

 

[OzDigger]

My first impression of this forum was that it was populated mainly by King and Country fanatics that attacked any critical comments of the range with rabid, and frequently personal replies. These attacks were often backed up by somewhat sarcastic comments from Andy C. Which no doubt had the effect of keeping the more timid collector in the 'guest list' and somewhat reluctant to participate in discussions.

I am pleased to say we have all matured to the degree that we can accept that collectors vary a great deal in their collecting needs and these variances are largely tolerated.

Personally I have never been interested in glossy toy soldiers as they don't look 'real'. I suspect my childhood collection of the remarkably detailed 1/32 plastic Airfix soldiers influenced my thinking. Until the Delaprado magazine range and subsequent availability of K & C in Australia I thought I would never see truely accurate metal figures.

I strongly believe that K & C figures have raised the profile and appearance of toy soldiers to the degree that it's now acceptable for the 'average' adult to collect them. Without doubt the range has attracted people that would have never considered collecting toy soldiers. And being new to this hobby it's understandable that some were overly zealous in their regard for the company and its products.

K & C figures set the standard for all scales and they literally stand head and shoulders above the 54 mm competition. Therefore the importance of their figures in the hobby cannot be overstated. However imo the polystone vehicles, especially the tracked versions, continue to degrade the range as far as diorama building is concerned.

Recently Honour Bound have demonstrated that polystone tanks etc can be detailed well, but it seems with added fragility. Those collectors experienced in model building do not see this as a major barrier as the bits can be repaired. I hope this is true as it will encourage K & C to improve detail on their polystone vehicles.

Of course the litmus test will be the average collector. And we will have to wait and see the market response to the improved products before polystone and it's expanding 1/30 champions will be able to provide a major challenge to the well entrenched 1/32 scale armies.

 

[jazzeum]

I hope the point I was trying to make didn't get lost: there's more to toy soldiers than 60 mm. I came to this board thinking otherwise. However, I have learned a little humility since coming here -- that comes with education I might add. Now, I know some dealers say that K & C sales are growing in leaps and bounds but most dealers are not K & C or 60 mm dealers.

 

[OzDigger]

Ok, I guess I went off track slightly following earlier posts, I won't name names though Pat

From my experience, 60 mm is only represented in Australia by King and Country because Honour Bound etc don't appear to have any local dealers here as yet. Most toy soldier outlets downunder have significant K & C displays but I'm not sure of what proportion they are of the total toy soldier sales. However, I suspect that King and Country actually now sell more than Britains but less than Forces of Valor in the 54 mm to 60 mm range.

1/9 figures were popular for a while but appear to have trailed off (one sales person suggested that BBI stood for Battle Barbie Industries, but I think he was kidding). However the largest downunder slice of the military figure and vehicle collecting cake goes to 1/72 diecast manufacturers such as Dragon as they are well represented in the toy soldier shops and general hobby stores.

 

[wadepat]

Oz,

It is a great relief to me that you will not name names. I am very comforted by that fact.

Sorry if I got off track. I am sure it will happen again.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Guys,

As one of the few dedicated Britians collectors on this forum I can tell you that I do appreciate the difference that the 60mm soldiers of NMA, Honour Bound and King and Country are making for the collectors of WWII sets. I will say that I have exactly 2 60mm sets in my collection. One from Russia and one from NMA. I dont own a single King and Country set mainly due to the scale and to the areas that they are focused on, and I dont go for the 60mm as the be all end all that some of the fans of that scale propose. I also dont have a lot of Post WWI, (some but not many) in my collection because thats not what I am into. I mainly am into the large cerimonial sets like the Durbar because of all of the fantastic colors and types of units like Camel mounted Cavalry or Elephants pulling Artillery or Princes riding elephants etc.

Dont get me wrong I had a ton of matte soldiers when I was a kid and had many a great day playing with them or when I was getting good at the model tanks painting the Britians soldiers so they looked more realistic and fit better with the other one I had built or cast and painted. However one day when I was in NYC I went into FAO Schwartz to buy some soldiers and was awe struck by a display of Britians soldiers someone had put together of the WWI Victory Parade in London! This was a massive display and it made a really big impact on me. This was where the cerimonial display was burned into my head so I guess I decided that I wanted to focus on the truly dramatic glossy 54mm displays. You either love them or not.

I also expect that I am a minority when it comes to the types of soldiers I am collecting at least as an American collector since my collection focuses on two areas, the Durbar and general Raj sets and Napoleonics mainly British right now. So I am always looking at the Britians thread and the other Manufacturer thread in hopes of some one showing an obscure figure set or asking a question on Britians that might be a question I can answer or wait for the folks from Britians to answer. So I say to Maddadicus and others please post some photos or ask a question because not everyone on this site is into King and Country. I also have a quite a few sets that are from really obscure companies so please keep posting.

Hope to hear from some more Britians/54mm fans out there.

Dave

 

[Combat]

I collect 60mm because that is the scale where the best WWII figures and vehicles are being made. I would not however buy anything bigger than 60mm as these take on the appearance of something more akin to figurines or action figures. I also collect the 54mm Russian made figures because those are the best detailed non-WWII figures around. There are pros and cons for each of these sizes - e.g. the detail on the 60mm is easier to see, but less forgiving of lower quality painting.

 

[jrsteel]

I collect mainly Britains and for the past few months I've been exclusively buying antique Britains and Mignot figures. I love the old soldiers and the old boxes. However , because of this forum I'm becoming more interested in K&C WW2 figures . Is the size dramatically different from Britains 54mm matte figures? I've never seen K&C in person. They do look like toy soldiers and not action figures, right?

 

[wadepat]

I collect mainly Britains and for the past few months I've been exclusively buying antique Britains and Mignot figures. I love the old soldiers and the old boxes. However , because of this forum I'm becoming more interested in K&C WW2 figures . Is the size dramatically different from Britains 54mm matte figures? I've never seen K&C in person. They do look like toy soldiers and not action figures, right?

Hi Jrsteel,

I'm glad to know that you are interested in antique Britains and Mignot figures. I, too, love the old stuff, although it is not my only interest.

In my opinion, the K&C WW II figures are wonderful, realistic figures and, no, they do not look like larger action figures (to me, at least.) The K&C figures are enough larger than the Britains that attempting to blend them in a display is not very effective, although some collectors place the 54 mm figures in the background to give the appearance of distance. Again, in my opinion, each scale is best displayed separately.

If you have a digital camera and some time, I would love to see some of your old Britains and Mignot figures. Posting some pictures would be a special treat for me!

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[wadepat]

Hi Guys,

As one of the few dedicated Britians collectors on this forum I can tell you that I do appreciate the difference that the 60mm soldiers of NMA, Honour Bound and King and Country are making for the collectors of WWII sets. I will say that I have exactly 2 60mm sets in my collection. One from Russia and one from NMA. I dont own a single King and Country set mainly due to the scale and to the areas that they are focused on, and I dont go for the 60mm as the be all end all that some of the fans of that scale propose. I also dont have a lot of Post WWI, (some but not many) in my collection because thats not what I am into. I mainly am into the large cerimonial sets like the Durbar because of all of the fantastic colors and types of units like Camel mounted Cavalry or Elephants pulling Artillery or Princes riding elephants etc.

Dont get me wrong I had a ton of matte soldiers when I was a kid and had many a great day playing with them or when I was getting good at the model tanks painting the Britians soldiers so they looked more realistic and fit better with the other one I had built or cast and painted. However one day when I was in NYC I went into FAO Schwartz to buy some soldiers and was awe struck by a display of Britians soldiers someone had put together of the WWI Victory Parade in London! This was a massive display and it made a really big impact on me. This was where the cerimonial display was burned into my head so I guess I decided that I wanted to focus on the truly dramatic glossy 54mm displays. You either love them or not.

I also expect that I am a minority when it comes to the types of soldiers I am collecting at least as an American collector since my collection focuses on two areas, the Durbar and general Raj sets and Napoleonics mainly British right now. So I am always looking at the Britians thread and the other Manufacturer thread in hopes of some one showing an obscure figure set or asking a question on Britians that might be a question I can answer or wait for the folks from Britians to answer. So I say to Maddadicus and others please post some photos or ask a question because not everyone on this site is into King and Country. I also have a quite a few sets that are from really obscure companies so please keep posting.

Hope to hear from some more Britians/54mm fans out there.

Dave

Dave,

This thread has helped facilitate some constructive thinking (well, I hope it is constructive!) on my part and I am very sympathic to your perspective. As I read your post, it strikes me that I have a few questions about Britains and other manufacturers' figures. I will post some of these questions in the near future in the hope that you can help me ascertain the answers. However, I am in the process of preparing to leave home for a visit with my brother-in-law who is very, very ill. Consequently, it might be a couple of weeks before I can formulate and post my questions. Keep checking the various threads and you will soon see a couple of questions from me.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Pat

I hope your brother in law gets better. Please have a safe trip and I will be looking forward to your questions. I am also going to be away for a couple of weeeks starting the 15th. Off to Alaska for some much needed R&R fishing and camping.

All the best

Dave

 

[fishead19690]

Hi Pat

I hope your brother in law gets better. Please have a safe trip and I will be looking forward to your questions. I am also going to be away for a couple of weeeks starting the 15th. Off to Alaska for some much needed R&R fishing and camping.

All the best

Dave

Dave that sounds like a great trip! I,ve always wanted to go fishing in alaska. Hope you catch some big ones. I,m going back to maine again in august with the family to stay on thomas pond for the week and will be doing some fishing in the kyack they have at the house we rent, its not alaska but its still a great time. Lots of small mouth bass in the pond, also landed a 5lb large mouth in the same pond last year he should be up to 6lb this year. If you ever make it back to the mass./R.I. area we,ll have to hook up and chase some strippers, R.I. has some big ones swimming around.