Who will be the first to do (1 Viewer)

[wayne556517]

Erich Alfred Hartmann (19 April 1922 – 20 September 1993), nicknamed "Bubi" by his comrades and "The Black Devil" by his Soviet adversaries, was a German fighter pilot during World War II and is the most successful fighter ace in the history of aerial warfare. He flew 1,404 combat missions and participated in aerial combat on 825 separate occasions. He claimed, and was credited with, shooting down 352 Allied aircraft—the destruction of each termed an "aerial victory"—while serving with the Luftwaffe. During the course of his career, Hartmann was forced to crash-land his damaged fighter 14 times due to damage received from parts of enemy aircraft he had just shot down or mechanical failure. Hartmann was never shot down or forced to land due to enemy fire.[1]

Hartmann, a pre-war glider pilot, joined the Luftwaffe in 1940 and completed his fighter pilot training in 1942. He was posted to Jagdgeschwader 52 (JG 52) on the Eastern front and was fortunate to be placed under the supervision of some of the Luftwaffe's most experienced fighter pilots. Under their guidance, Hartmann steadily developed his tactics, which earned him the coveted Ritterkreuz mit Eichenlaub, Schwertern und Brillanten (Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds) on 25 August 1944 for claiming 301 aerial victories. At the time of its presentation to Hartmann, this was Germany's highest military decoration.[Note 1]

Hartmann scored his 352nd and last aerial victory on 8 May 1945. Along with the remainder of JG 52, he surrendered to United States Army forces and were turned over to the Red Army. In an attempt to pressure him into service with the Soviet-friendly East German Volksarmee, he was convicted of false war crimes, a conviction posthumously voided by a Russian court as a malicious prosecution. Hartmann was sentenced to 25 years of hard labour and spent 10 years in various Soviet prison camps and gulags until he was released in 1955.

In 1956, Hartmann joined the newly established West German Luftwaffe in the Bundeswehr, and became the first Geschwaderkommodore of Jagdgeschwader 71 "Richthofen". Hartmann resigned early from the Bundeswehr in 1970, largely due to his opposition to the F-104 Starfighter deployment in the Luftwaffe and the resulting clashes with his superiors over this issue. In his later years, after his military career had ended, he became a civilian flight instructor.[2] He died of natural causes on 20 September 1993.





And 1 of his 109,s would be nice as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Hartmann

 

[uksubs]

Erich Alfred Hartmann (19 April 1922 – 20 September 1993), nicknamed "Bubi" by his comrades and "The Black Devil" by his Soviet adversaries, was a German fighter pilot during World War II and is the most successful fighter ace in the history of aerial warfare. He flew 1,404 combat missions and participated in aerial combat on 825 separate occasions. He claimed, and was credited with, shooting down 352 Allied aircraft—the destruction of each termed an "aerial victory"—while serving with the Luftwaffe. During the course of his career, Hartmann was forced to crash-land his damaged fighter 14 times due to damage received from parts of enemy aircraft he had just shot down or mechanical failure. Hartmann was never shot down or forced to land due to enemy fire.[1]

Hartmann, a pre-war glider pilot, joined the Luftwaffe in 1940 and completed his fighter pilot training in 1942. He was posted to Jagdgeschwader 52 (JG 52) on the Eastern front and was fortunate to be placed under the supervision of some of the Luftwaffe's most experienced fighter pilots. Under their guidance, Hartmann steadily developed his tactics, which earned him the coveted Ritterkreuz mit Eichenlaub, Schwertern und Brillanten (Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds) on 25 August 1944 for claiming 301 aerial victories. At the time of its presentation to Hartmann, this was Germany's highest military decoration.[Note 1]

Hartmann scored his 352nd and last aerial victory on 8 May 1945. Along with the remainder of JG 52, he surrendered to United States Army forces and were turned over to the Red Army. In an attempt to pressure him into service with the Soviet-friendly East German Volksarmee, he was convicted of false war crimes, a conviction posthumously voided by a Russian court as a malicious prosecution. Hartmann was sentenced to 25 years of hard labour and spent 10 years in various Soviet prison camps and gulags until he was released in 1955.

In 1956, Hartmann joined the newly established West German Luftwaffe in the Bundeswehr, and became the first Geschwaderkommodore of Jagdgeschwader 71 "Richthofen". Hartmann resigned early from the Bundeswehr in 1970, largely due to his opposition to the F-104 Starfighter deployment in the Luftwaffe and the resulting clashes with his superiors over this issue. In his later years, after his military career had ended, he became a civilian flight instructor.[2] He died of natural causes on 20 September 1993.

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And 1 of his 109,s would be nice as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Hartmann

I would recommend reading his book wayne

 

[lancer]

Definitely a subject matter that needs to be covered. For whatever reason, Hartmann seems to be under-appreciated, probably because of being on the wrong side. There are other factors, however. The numbers he put up are still met by skepticism all these years later. There are many who downgrade his accomplishments because they were achieved on the Eastern Front where victories were perceived as being easier to come by. That is a bunch of bunk. A pilot doesn't survive over 800 combats and shoot down 352 enemy aircraft if he isn't special, regardless of how soft the opponent allegedly is, and the Russians had their share of excellent pilots. The Eastern Front aces are largely neglected as a group and recognizing Hartmann with a model or two of his various aircraft would be an excellent addition to the hobby. Hard to imagine that the world's all time leading ace is so neglected just because he did most of his flying and fighting against the Russians instead of the western Allies. Reading his biography, "The Blond Knight of Germany", is an excellent suggestion. -- Al

 

[TomB]

Definitely a subject matter that needs to be covered. For whatever reason, Hartmann seems to be under-appreciated, probably because of being on the wrong side. There are other factors, however. The numbers he put up are still met by skepticism all these years later. There are many who downgrade his accomplishments because they were achieved on the Eastern Front where victories were perceived as being easier to come by. That is a bunch of bunk. A pilot doesn't survive over 800 combats and shoot down 352 enemy aircraft if he isn't special, regardless of how soft the opponent allegedly is, and the Russians had their share of excellent pilots. The Eastern Front aces are largely neglected as a group and recognizing Hartmann with a model or two of his various aircraft would be an excellent addition to the hobby. Hard to imagine that the world's all time leading ace is so neglected just because he did most of his flying and fighting against the Russians instead of the western Allies. Reading his biography, "The Blond Knight of Germany", is an excellent suggestion. -- Al

The Eastern Front may be the reason.....all the interest center's on the Tanks ...then the troops......the Russians started producing excellent fighters and had many an Ace,,,both male and female......... have heard of the JU87 pilot and his 3000 missions...Hartmann ...never heard of him....if he had commanded a Tank...that would be a different story.....I doubt if K&C will produce Russian WW2 aircraft...therefore Hartmann will not merit a mention...regards TomB

 

[lancer]

The Eastern Front may be the reason.....all the interest center's on the Tanks ...then the troops......the Russians started producing excellent fighters and had many an Ace,,,both male and female......... have heard of the JU87 pilot and his 3000 missions...Hartmann ...never heard of him....if he had commanded a Tank...that would be a different story.....I doubt if K&C will produce Russian WW2 aircraft...therefore Hartmann will not merit a mention...regards TomB

Tom, you may well be correct about KC never producing Russian aircraft. There are not many who can name Russian fighters like the Laggs, Yaks, Migs, etc. About the only really famous Russian plane is their equivalent of the Stuka, the Sturmovik Il-2. There were thousands of lend-lease US and British aircraft serving with the Russians such as Hurricanes, P-40's, and P-39's. Hartmann's victory claims numbered no fewer than 80 P-39's amongst his 352 total. Perhaps an aircraft issue that would include a Hartmann 109 and a Russian P-39? Failing that, Hartmann did have 2 claims against US P-51's in his limited engagements against the western Allies. At any rate, Hartmann deserves some sort of recognition with a model, Russian front though it may be. -- Al

 

[TomB]

Tom, you may well be correct about KC never producing Russian aircraft. There are not many who can name Russian fighters like the Laggs, Yaks, Migs, etc. About the only really famous Russian plane is their equivalent of the Stuka, the Sturmovik Il-2. There were thousands of lend-lease US and British aircraft serving with the Russians such as Hurricanes, P-40's, and P-39's. Hartmann's victory claims numbered no fewer than 80 P-39's amongst his 352 total. Perhaps an aircraft issue that would include a Hartmann 109 and a Russian P-39? Failing that, Hartmann did have 2 claims against US P-51's in his limited engagements against the western Allies. At any rate, Hartmann deserves some sort of recognition with a model, Russian front though it may be. -- Al

A Russian Hurricane and Hartmanns Me109.....I think these aircraft are already produced by K&C so a quick paint job and bingo an Eastern Front airforce....I know...dont hold your breath......regards TomB

 

[Mitch]

would be interesting and the book is a must for those interested in air combat. I think there have been many discussions about different air aces and ground tank aces that should, could be represented and portrayed. Sadly, I think the hobby manufacturers show the narrowness of interest Galland, even when its not his aircraft!! Molders, and of course the one that got away!! Ground aces its the same Wittmann and, HB did Ernst Barkmann

Would be nice to see some widening of acknowledgement and there are many to choose from especially the one posted here by Wayne
Mitch

 

[TomB]

A Russian Hurricane and Hartmanns Me109.....I think these aircraft are already produced by K&C so a quick paint job and bingo an Eastern Front airforce....I know...dont hold your breath......regards TomB

An interesting article on the P39....I was under the impression it was not a particular good fighter aircraft....The Russians seemed to think differently and flew them very well....cheers TomB

 

[bradleyl30]

It is also interesting to note that he finished his pilot training and arrived at the front in August of 1942. This was well after the early parts of the invasion. I did not know he started this late. Makes it even more impressive.

 

[lancer]

I think the general lack of popularity of Eastern Front subjects is a real shame, especially in terms of the air war. The lack of popularity all but eliminates the possibility of seeing aircraft of the world's highest scoring aces (Germans) and WW2's highest scoring Allied aces (Russians). Names like Barkhorn, Rall, Kittel, Nowotny, Batz, and Rudorffer of Germany will remain in the dark, not to mention the Russians like Kozhedub, Pokryshkin, Rechkalov, and Gulayev. Someone amongst the TS manufacturers could do well by going beyond the Westfront. -- Al

 

[bradleyl30]

It is also interesting to note that he finished his pilot training and arrived at the front in August of 1942. This was well after the early parts of the invasion. I did not know he started this late. Makes it even more impressive.

Just realized that I got the date wrong above. He did not go on his first combat mission until October, which was a disaster. He was "sentenced" to the ground crew as punishment.

He did not get his first "victory" until November of 1942.

 

[King & Country]

Hi Guys,

As Tom B., Lancer and Mitch have brought up K&C in the context of not producing the fighter of their choice for the Eastern Front.

I thought I’d give you our side of it…Actually, I agree that Erich Hartmann is a great choice if we ever do get around to producing an Me109 “Gustav”.

Overall there’s a lot of great pilots and planes out there that K&C (and I’m sure a few others) might like to produce. Personally I’d love to do an F4U Corsair…a Zero…a couple of Russian ones and quite a few more (including Neil’s Meteor) however it’s all a case of time, resources and the allocation thereof.

Like most of you I love all Military Aircraft…of all periods, but when you help run a company you have to make difficult choices and, of course, you will always disappoint some.

However, Eastern Front does indeed offer a wealth of potential fascinating possibilities…

Best wishes and happy flying!

Andy C.​

 

[wayne556517]

Well thats a yes/no/maybe from K&C............................^&grin

 

[TomB]

Well thats a yes/no/maybe from K&C............................^&grin

Maybe of interest...cheers TomB

 

[lancer]

View attachment 139535 Maybe of interest...cheers TomB

Certainly interesting to me. The Russians proved that the P-39 was a viable fighting aircraft when used within the limitations of it's design. From 12000 feet and down, the P-39 was a decent fighter. Above that altitude and it got outclassed by the Germans and Japanese with little effort. -- Al

 

[TomB]

Certainly interesting to me. The Russians proved that the P-39 was a viable fighting aircraft when used within the limitations of it's design. From 12000 feet and down, the P-39 was a decent fighter. Above that altitude and it got outclassed by the Germans and Japanese with little effort. -- Al

Strange how so much interest has now been generated in the P39..We know about the Red Army female snipers but next to nothing about the female pilots who often flew more dangerous missions ( than the male pilots ) in old crates because the men were given the best aircraft....to be fair to K&C they cannot cover every aspect of WW2....especially the war in the air of the Eastern Front....to be honest...most people have never thought about it....and on the subject of women pilots...the American woman who ferried the aircraft during the war were given a dirty deal by the US govt at wars end...cannot remember the details but they deserved much better than what they got....do not known how the Brit female pilots fared but I think in general the men were jealous about women flying the same aircraft as them and the "male pig" shone through....with the Alison/Merlin motor and more development the P39 may have been a famous aircraft...regards TomB

 

[TomB]

Strange how so much interest has now been generated in the P39..We know about the Red Army female snipers but next to nothing about the female pilots who often flew more dangerous missions ( than the male pilots ) in old crates because the men were given the best aircraft....to be fair to K&C they cannot cover every aspect of WW2....especially the war in the air of the Eastern Front....to be honest...most people have never thought about it....and on the subject of women pilots...the American woman who ferried the aircraft during the war were given a dirty deal by the US govt at wars end...cannot remember the details but they deserved much better than what they got....do not known how the Brit female pilots fared but I think in general the men were jealous about women flying the same aircraft as them and the "male pig" shone through....with the Alison/Merlin motor and more development the P39 may have been a famous aircraft...regards TomB

I should have said...With the Allison made...Merlin motor ".......cheers TomB

 

[ivanmoe]

I'll buy just about any nicely rendered replica of a warbird. That said, I feel compelled to voice a fear of mine. I'd hate to see subjects that I'm interested in, like a P-39 or Gustav Messerschmidt, done poorly. I state this in the understanding that there would likely be no quality follow-on of the same subject in it's wake. In other words, I'd rather see certain types not done at all, than done poorly.