why are the germans so popular?? (1 Viewer)

[Mitch]

Guys...

With the many debates on here and, the release of the new collector named just this I thought I would start the thread that will inevitably come from this magazine.

My take is that german stuff AFV's etc are just more asthetically appealing than allied counterparts. The germans were able to make some astonishing weapons of war in the circumstances (heavy and continuos allied bombing) for me, I grew up building airfix kits then Tamiya and, apart from the spit, Hurri, lancaster and say the Hood all the german stuff including their ships looked really good.

The germans had good AFV's even those I know who don't like german stuff admit that a Panther Tiger Jagdpanther look the business whereas an allied sherman etc just looks rather drab and boring in comparison.

Parade figures always cause controversy but, again, asthetically the germans did it well. Hitler, whatever else is laid at his door, new with others around him the visual effect propaganda had. The mass rallies and night parades were designed to create a feeling of power and invincibility and thats what they did. The uniforms designed and manufactured by many well known german design houses. I can't think of another nations soldiers on parade at that time that looked more asthetically appealing

the germans also did the same thing in the field. They turned grey into an almost fashion statement something which, the allies did not do with the khaki and other colours. The SS used sevaral different camo smockswhich looked good. The germans festoned their uniforms with medals and awards again, something which the allies apart from some russians did not do. I think allied wise only the Paras looked good in their uniforms

Some answer in the alternative and are flabbergasted at how such a regime can be so popular then and, in the years since I think its just partly (there are other reasons) down to the way they looked and what they designed. it was not in the german psyche to make a sherman it had to be a panther or a konigstiger. The important thing is that there are many millions who are attracted to the german war machine from modellors to historians and, everyone else in between means it has to be asthetic appeal for the majority and, not some neo nazi admiration which, is often bandied around as a misunderstanding of those who are inclined to collect and research the germans. Hopefully, as there is more on the subject more will come to light in discussing these points
Mitch

 

[Scott]

Funny that my brief venture in WW II (US) reenacting showed me that the cooler guys did German WW II. Their camp was better and more fun and they had prettier wives and girlfriends. They seemed to have put more work in the impressions as well.

It was the same with the British reenactors in Rev-War.

Yes there is a certain "bad a$$" look to German uniforms and gear. I only have a Hitler figure left in my collection of figures representing German WW II and it's a "message" diorama of Hitler talking to a small girl. (converted from a Monarch Victorian by Cliff Sanderson)

 

[Rob]

Different reasons I guess. First there is the admiration of their military machine, the 88's, Tigers, ME109's etc were without doubt superb weapons of War and lots of people have an interest in that, myself included. Secondly from a collecting/balance/dio point of view they are the enemy who had to be beaten. This is where I come in, I collect German releases because they are the opponents my country and its Allies had to destroy because of the evil loathsome regime they fought for. I know a lot of collectors who like myself as a kid collected Airfix plastic Soldiers and it was no good just having Brits or Americans you had to have German and Japs as they were the bad guys who always had to lose.

Maybe neo Nazi element is too strong a term, but there are those who not only love the German stuff (perhaps a teeny bit much) but always want to see dead allies , destroyed allied armour etc as opposed to a healthy balance from both sides. But happily they are a tiny minority, and in the end we can collect safe in the knowledge that the decent people of the world won in the end and therefore we can admire the German War machine because it wasn't enough to save them . Having said that I don't for a min believe everyone who collects the LAH is a closet Nazi, I know some just love marching figures etc, its not for me , but thats the joy of this hobby and indeed freedom,choice and variety.

Rob

 

[trooper]

Must agree with much of what has been said so far, although I think that with regard equipment a lot of the German issue was over engineered resulting in the requirement of a lot of maintenance work. The Allies seem to have gone in for fast production and durability. Classic case is the MP38 which would malfunction frequently if dirty whereas the Sten was cheap to produce and could be dropped into water, mud or sand picked up and carry on being used. Same thing applies to the Tigers and Panthers, very good tanks when they weren't breaking down. My main complaint is how they dominate the book market. There is not one item of German kit that hasn't been the subject of at least one book and usually many more. There have been more books written about the Tigers than actual Tigers produced. And usually it is the same old stuff rehashed with maybe two photographs that have not been seen before. As for the production of figures Rob is right. They were a part of history and as such must be represented, although with a certain sense of discretion. At one time I was asked to produce a Gestapo officer whipping a concentration camp inmate, a project I rejected in somewhat vigorous terms which Shannon would never let me reproduce here, yes, this was an historic fact but it was one that crossed the line in my particular opinion and one in which I refused to indulge. I think that all the information we need is already out there and we could do with moving onto other subjects as far as books are concerned. Trooper

 

[Currahee Chris]

... At one time I was asked to produce a Gestapo officer whipping a concentration camp inmate, a project I rejected in somewhat vigorous terms

That's sick. Good for you!! With your command of the language, I gotta believe that was possibly your finest use of metaphors to date.

That really is sick.

 

[Combat]

The Germans were master propagandists. The uniforms, flags, and even some military vehicles were designed to have a visual impact. I think that is a major reason that the German toy soldiers are so popular. They have a striking visual impact.

 

[lancer]

Must agree with much of what has been said so far, although I think that with regard equipment a lot of the German issue was over engineered resulting in the requirement of a lot of maintenance work. The Allies seem to have gone in for fast production and durability. Classic case is the MP38 which would malfunction frequently if dirty whereas the Sten was cheap to produce and could be dropped into water, mud or sand picked up and carry on being used. Same thing applies to the Tigers and Panthers, very good tanks when they weren't breaking down. My main complaint is how they dominate the book market. There is not one item of German kit that hasn't been the subject of at least one book and usually many more. There have been more books written about the Tigers than actual Tigers produced. And usually it is the same old stuff rehashed with maybe two photographs that have not been seen before. As for the production of figures Rob is right. They were a part of history and as such must be represented, although with a certain sense of discretion. At one time I was asked to produce a Gestapo officer whipping a concentration camp inmate, a project I rejected in somewhat vigorous terms which Shannon would never let me reproduce here, yes, this was an historic fact but it was one that crossed the line in my particular opinion and one in which I refused to indulge. I think that all the information we need is already out there and we could do with moving onto other subjects as far as books are concerned. Trooper

Good points. It does show, though, that German subjects sell and sell well. Bottom lines, as has been pointed out on the forum many times, drive production. The book market has a huge base of collectors that will buy anything and everything covering German/Nazi subjects. When I was involved in the military book business, German WW2 military was our biggest seller, behind the ACW. German just plain sells in books, as in TS. The books published about all things German military just keep coming and I doubt that anything will change that. -- Al

 

[Cornwallis]

and they've got Claudia Schiffer! :wink2:

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Germans sell to people like myself simply for the fact that we are drawn into their mystique of uniforms, machines, and advanced equipment.Sometimes so advanced it broke down a lot, but good,bad, or indifferent they did raise the bar in regards to having some of the most unique and menacing machines on the field of battle !
No one has to endorse Nazi idealology to appreciate a big monster tank or a mg42 machine gun. One thing the german technology inventors never thought.They never envisioned British Typhoons swooping down on them and blowing turrets off of Tiger Tanks like flipping hot cakes !

 

[Currahee Chris]

The uniforms, flags, and even some military vehicles were designed to have a visual impact. I think that is a major reason that the German toy soldiers are so popular. They have a striking visual impact.

That's what I always chalked it up to. The WW2 German army had just an immense impact on the US Army post WW2 so it is neat to see the origins of so many of our current technologies- aside from equipment, they were instrumental/ forced us to rethink our approach to modern warfare and a lot of our field manuals are essentially German field manuals written in English or heavily influenced.

In general, I do not believe there are sinister motives behind the accumulation of German toy soldiers but I have met wargamers/reenactors that really make me pause and wonder. One of those things you have to evaluate on a case by case basis I guess- which could be said for any time period in my estimation.

 

[Mitch]

the german NCO and officers were also much better adapted to the Allied ones in terms of adaptability and experience on the battlefield.
Mitch

 

[Currahee Chris]

the german NCO and officers were also much better adapted to the Allied ones in terms of adaptability and experience on the battlefield.
Mitch

^&confuse^&confuse^&confuse if you say so. Not completely sure I follow "...were also much better adapted to the allied ones..." are you trying to say they were more innovative than their comparable Allied NCO/ Officer leadership?? If that is what you are saying, I respectfully disagree. I've often been led to believe that it was our core leadership- at the squad/platoon levels that were very adaptive and decisive in their decision making. I believe the German Army was a bit more restrictive in terms of "on the fly" decision making than the US high command............

 

[johnnybach]

]OTE=Cornwallis;400387]and they've got Claudia Schiffer! :wink2:[/QUOTE]

Who is that?? To Gents of a certain age - there was alway ..............Zis! johnnybach

 

[Mitch]

Everything I have ever read has stated how exceptional the german NCO was and, especially in the Waffen SS. You should read some of the papers and books Michael Reynolds has written I have come across him through my own research and although allied NCO's etc were good they were not as good as the german counterparts. I have other stuff that suggests similar. Many Normandy books looking at this area have shown that at low rank and NCO's were far more pivotal in the battles after D-Day than were senior officers who were directed by the fuhrer. Their adaptability especially, the SS and Panzer Lehr divisions were one of the pivotal reasons why it took so long to break out through normandy.

If you look at the eastern front there is a plethora of documentation stating exactly the same and, look at the italian campaign in particular where static defence and counter attacks were deployed all the way up the italian peninsula and at the core of many counter attacks which blunted allied moves were localised counter attacks at junior levels.

I was also not talking about high command. Thats a completely different proposition. just cannot see why your confused.
Mitch

^&confuse^&confuse^&confuse if you say so. Not completely sure I follow "...were also much better adapted to the allied ones..." are you trying to say they were more innovative than their comparable Allied NCO/ Officer leadership?? If that is what you are saying, I respectfully disagree. I've often been led to believe that it was our core leadership- at the squad/platoon levels that were very adaptive and decisive in their decision making. I believe the German Army was a bit more restrictive in terms of "on the fly" decision making than the US high command............

 

[theBaron]

Why are the Germans so popular?

One word: Beer.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Currahee Chris]

Why are the Germans so popular?

One word: Beer.

Prost!
Brad

And Bratwurst...And knockwurst... and volksmarches.....and Rotenburg OdT.......and the beautiful Kriskindlemart every December that we went to when I lived in Nuremburg... and the beautiful bavarian mountains.....and Kick butt Heavy Metal festivals.........and Bavaria...in truth, the least "popular" thing I find about Germany is their WW2 past.

Go Phils!!{sm3}

 

[Currahee Chris]

...and although allied NCO's etc were good they were not as good as the german counterparts.

Back to the ignore list mate.....{sm4}{sm4}

 

[nysoldiers]

True, German vehicles and uninforms are more visually compelling but personally I collect the German army so my allied armies can crush them in every encounter.
Just makes me feel good to visualize (even with toys) the defeat and destruction of the German/Nazi "evil empire"!

 

[Currahee Chris]

True, German vehicles and uninforms are more visually compelling but personally I collect the German army so my allied armies can crush them in every encounter.
Just makes me feel good to visualize (even with toys) the defeat and destruction of the German/Nazi "evil empire"!

that makes two of us.

 

[Louis Badolato]

that makes two of us.

Make it three . . . to paraphrase Chris on another thread, my Allied toy soldiers love a target rich environment.:wink2: