Why I quit collecting toy soldiers (1 Viewer)

No-one I know ever quit something because they couldn't find something better. Frustrated I hear, but giving up? I think not. Quitting is just a decision and your dialogue says " convince me". You have not made that decision.

No-one is collecting Britains at this time because they cannot; not because Britains won't remove packs.

K&C took the packs off the last Napoleonic British regiment. Ask Andy if this was a viable experiment. It did not make them cheaper by the way. If you make your own, you will discover why.

Like the rest of us who do it, you will come to realise that it is the only way to get what you seek. And the originality is worth the journey - and the extra price :)
 
Keith did a painting of the defense of LRT that shows Union troops in backpacks and blanket rolls.

The print you might be referring to is Rocco's "The Defense of Little Round Top by the 20th Maine." I have that print in my collection (A remarque limited edition with mine showing a pencil sketch of a union soldier firing without a knapsack). The print itself has several knapsacks lying on the ground with all of the soldiers--more than a dozen-- fighting without them on. I suspect that Rocco did this for artistic license rather than being used as evidence that soldiers carried them into battle, although perhaps a few did. But it was not the norm, and certainly that particular print does not show them fighting with knapsacks on. In Rocco's "Hold the Ground At All Hazards" done years later, Rocco shows troops coming into position on Little Round Top without any of them carrying knapsacks or blanket rolls. Let me also state that artists portraying Berdan Sharpshooters have depicted them with different shades of green frock coats. Troiani actually located an extant uniform and had it tested to determine the correct color which, obviously, might have been affected by the oxidation over time. Anyway, we now realize that the color was not actually the forest green seen on many toy soldier representations of that unit (although I do have some figures that have incorporated Troiani's findings in their color renditions).

Finally, in recent years research has disclosed that the sharpshooters had placed their green frock coats in storage just after Chancellorsville and before the Battle of Gettysburg. They wore regulation blue sack coats in their place. Once this information came out, I could no longer portray a Gettysburg scene with Berdan's toy soldiers wearing green frocks, regardless of the shade. This also affected my role as a sharpshooter reenactor working as a volunteer for the National Park Service at Gettysburg. The unit with which I was associated had struggled with the choice of wearing blue sack costs during presentations for this event specific occasion or wearing green frocks as a means of educating the public about the sharpshooters generally to show how they were distinctive. We solved that problem by wearing both. I think that most toy soldier hobbyists simply do generic scenes and are quite content to make idealized dioramas instead. There's nothing wrong with that and I have done that as well; but for something more specific, utmost accuracy is important. My caveat mentioned previously about using artists' renditions as a substitute for one's own research into primary source materials still stands.

Who knows? Maybe some day further evidence will come out that every soldier fighting in Strong Vincent's Brigade on Little Round Top had their knapsacks and blanket rolls with them. If so, all of us who said to the contrary, including the artists, will be proven incorrect. But until that time arrives, let's have a go at at least giving us the option to make our displays more convincing, if we want to, by having figures without them.
 
No-one I know ever quit something because they couldn't find something better. Frustrated I hear, but giving up? I think not. Quitting is just a decision and your dialogue says " convince me". You have not made that decision.

No-one is collecting Britains at this time because they cannot; not because Britains won't remove packs.

K&C took the packs off the last Napoleonic British regiment. Ask Andy if this was a viable experiment. It did not make them cheaper by the way. If you make your own, you will discover why.

Like the rest of us who do it, you will come to realise that it is the only way to get what you seek. And the originality is worth the journey - and the extra price :)


Let us again look at what I actually said, and not what you have interpreted from my comments. I have given up collecting soldiers--not displaying them. I just no longer buy figures that do not enhance my displays and the purpose for which I create them, not only from Britains but from any manufacturer that doesn't evolve to produce the options I seek. I will simply just make new dioramas from my existing collection and generic scenes or ones in which I can document what was actually worn by the real soldiers that are compatible with my existing collection. You can collect all of Britains soldiers you want and for whatever reason you enjoy doing so. I simply don't share your perspective based on my personal aspirations, that's all. I find it hard to believe that it is not easier and possibly cheaper to make figures without knapsacks. There is less painting and detail being introduced in the prototype figure both in the actual casting as well as finish work. The fact that some collectors might have eschewed buying Napoleonics without knapsacks from K&C might have stemmed from the fact that they were looking for everything they could get for their investment, particularly if they weren't interested in any other option or the creation of an accurate diorama in the first place. Or maybe in many instances, Napoleonic armies fought with those items on their person ( I cannot state this with certitude because I am not really a student of the Napoleonic era). It is unfortunate to suggest that I have to settle for what's out there and modify it to suit my purposes. Why should I pay top price for something that doesn't suit my purposes, only to cannibalize another expensive figure to incorporate those changes that I need or tear the existing figure apart to remove what I don't need? That is a far more expensive proposition and a waste of money that is easily remediable on the manufacturer's end. The fact that they don't do so is why I no longer collect--my original point.
 
Finally, in recent years research has disclosed that the sharpshooters had placed their green frock coats in storage just after Chancellorsville and before the Battle of Gettysburg. They wore regulation blue sack coats in their place. Once this information came out, I could no longer portray a Gettysburg scene with Berdan's toy soldiers wearing green frocks, regardless of the shade. This also affected my role as a sharpshooter reenactor working as a volunteer for the National Park Service at Gettysburg. The unit with which I was associated had struggled with the choice of wearing blue sack costs during presentations for this event specific occasion or wearing green frocks as a means of educating the public about the sharpshooters generally to show how they were distinctive. We solved that problem by wearing both.

In Keith's depiction of the Berdan Sharpshooters at Slyder's farm, they are wearing the green jackets, packs and blanket rolls.

So you're saying his rendition of that engagement that he is charging people 260.00 for is wrong then?

I'll shoot him a call and ask him about this as Keith is a friend of mine.
 
In Keith's depiction of the Berdan Sharpshooters at Slyder's farm, they are wearing the green jackets, packs and blanket rolls.

So you're saying his rendition of that engagement that he is charging people 260.00 for is wrong then?

I'll shoot him a call and ask him about this as Keith is a friend of mine.

The short answer is yes, he is wrong if you believe Don Troiani who has likewise used research tools in his depiction. I have prepared a long explanation that for some reason was not posted on here and so I will make the attempt again.
 
The short answer is yes, he is wrong if you believe Don Troiani who has likewise used research tools in his depiction. I have prepared a long explanation that for some reason was not posted on here and so I will make the attempt again.

First, I do own a number of Rocco's prints as mentioned in my other posts, although I do not own the one you have referred to depicting the sharpshooters at the Slyder Barn. I am familiar with it, though, because it graces the cover of the Diary of Wyman White that was published by Butternut and Blue, a book contained in my library. It shows the green frocks and knapsacks with cooking tins. Dale Gallon's rendition of the sharpshooters, also 2nd regiment, entitled "Breechloaders and Greencoats," shows green frocks and knapsacks with cooking gear as well. I own that print as well as Troiani's "Berdan's Sharpshooters, Summer--Fall 1863" which shows sharpshooters with blue sack coats and no knapsacks. He cites a number of sources in his descriptive brochure. He makes an important conclusion therein: "In preparation for the summer campaign, on June 6, 1863, the distinctive dark green frock coats were placed into storage and common blue flannel fatigue blouses were issued in their place." He also opines that many discarded the knapsacks on the march and his source also indicated that the leather leggings were likewise stored with the green frocks. Now, I do not want to cause a war among these artists because quite simply the ones done prior to Troiani's last work were based on what evidence might have been available to their researchers at that time they painted. New evidence is always surfacing that was either unavailable or not discoverable. And I don't think that anyone could deprecate Troiani's reputation for authenticity. I have met all three artists I've mentioned here. In fact, I can tell you that they all have a commitment to authenticity in addition to making good art. On one occasion, I talked with Troiani who indicated that he did scratch samplings of the Cemetery Gatehouse to discern the exact color of the brick for one of his prints.
 
Hi Gettysburgbuff,

it appears that you really like to depict large dioramas but are dissatisfied with the current crop of model soldiers available due to their costs, accuracy and difficulty in modifiying them.

May I suggest that you explore zinnfiguren, flat tin figures of 30mm height? They have excellent rendition of the ACW and other periods with endless poses? These may satisfy your creative needs. Here is an example:
http://www.zinnfiguren-bock.de/steu..._netsh100619=6160a41e34f377483946d1798cc9827a

Best rgds

Victor
 
There is a collector's burden in any hobby in which you must ask yourself whether the aggravation and expense of collecting exceeds the enjoyment. My enthusiasm for toy soldiers ebbs and flows. Just when I think I may be out I get pulled back in by some great new release. Historical accuracy is a legitimate concern but it is still a hobby and expectations sometimes might have to be tempered. And in some cases there may be no definitive right or wrong. Sources vary. That's not to excuse lazy or blatant errors but in many instances the text book sources likely don't match the condition of armies in the field during long campaigns. There are a lot of known unknowns.
 
In Keith's depiction of the Berdan Sharpshooters at Slyder's farm, they are wearing the green jackets, packs and blanket rolls.

So you're saying his rendition of that engagement that he is charging people 260.00 for is wrong then?

I'll shoot him a call and ask him about this as Keith is a friend of mine.

Hi Guys,
I just discovered this conversation and find it very interesting and informative.

In general I concur with virtually all of George's comments and those of many others here...The original poster's 'beef' are those of the dedicated 'purist' who knows exactly what he wants...and how he wants it...and presumably what he will pay for it IF AND ONLY IF he decides to eventually buy it!

Trying to please a few 'purists' is an often thankless task...as I know from painful experience. Speaking personally I try my best to please the vast majority of K&C collectors most of the time...I reckon most other toy soldier/military miniature makers try to do the same. Successful companies by necessity have to work for the many..Not the few 'purists' out there!

One final point...Glaringly missing from the original complaint and subsequent follow-ups is a very important little word that explains why most of us got into this great hobby in the first place and why we're going to remain it...FUN!!!!!!!!!!
All the best and...Happy Collecting,
Andy.
 
In Keith's depiction of the Berdan Sharpshooters at Slyder's farm, they are wearing the green jackets, packs and blanket rolls.

So you're saying his rendition of that engagement that he is charging people 260.00 for is wrong then?

I'll shoot him a call and ask him about this as Keith is a friend of mine.

George

Ken Olsen, who I think is something of an expert in ACW uniforms and also a friend of Keith, once told me the green uniforms has largely been replaced by the time of Gettysburg. I looked at some discussions of the subject online and most agree with that statement. Chris
 
George

Ken Olsen, who I think is something of an expert in ACW uniforms and also a friend of Keith, once told me the green uniforms has largely been replaced by the time of Gettysburg. I looked at some discussions of the subject online and most agree with that statement. Chris

So what would look more attractive to a collector,:) in any display enviroment, colorful green uniforms with all the trappings of same or yet another blue outfit that makes them look just like any other Union unit? Color me, GREEN!
 
At the end of the day, do what you like with your money! King & Country has a very popular Apache war series, and the uniforms of their US CAV are hardly accurate but I collect them because it reminds me of the Western movies I grew up watching!
 
So what would look more attractive to a collector,:) in any display enviroment, colorful green uniforms with all the trappings of same or yet another blue outfit that makes them look just like any other Union unit? Color me, GREEN!

Actually, the comments were about historical accuracy. If you like green, go for it. Chris
 

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