Why not more Modern Fighting Men (and women!)? (2 Viewers)

[Rutledge]

Certainly anyone who is alive and coherent is AWARE of global warming concerns - whether or not they agree with them.

The difference between myself and CS is I believe human beings, acting in their own self interest within a capitalist and democratic construct, stand a much better chance of solving any climate problems -- when and IF they arise. Although CS assures us that he has the ONLY correct view of our situation and our future, I just dont scare that easy. People love to panic about the future. See preparation for Y2K, "the soviet scare", aliens landing and runaway inflation, etc. Each problem eventually worked itself out.

Frankly, if our best/only option is instituting top down measures that force people, through PUNITIVE financial and other "extreme" measures, to make the "right" choices about their lifestyles, as determined by an oversight body that controls, measures, allocates and regulates each person's "carbon footprint", I tell you, I have no interest in that. Sounds like a totalitarian nightmare. Ultimately, I guess I trust the human race more than I trust a bunch of environmental policemen.

 

[Shannon Reuss]

Wow, I get a little behind on reading posts and look what happens--yeah, I'd say this was a political discussion-no politics, remember?
While I am pleased that people have pretty much kept their cool I don't see the point in continuing this interchange.
Why? First of all because this is a toy soldier forum not a political and socioeconomic issue forum.
And second because after 8 pages of political discussion have any of you changed your minds and "seen the light" of the opposing viewpoint? I very much doubt it.
Your viewpoints are biased by your political leanings, whatever they may be, and it is extremely unlikely anyone is going to reject their current beliefs in favor of the "other side's" argument. Political beliefs are deeply ingrained, not easily swayed and are a fast and easy way to cause division between people which is why we ask that you don't talk politics on this toy soldier forum.
Thank you,

 

[Tex]

Global warming seems to be a mainstream concern.

This is obvious, and not what I thought you were referring to when you said mainstream. I would be ignorant to deny global warming. I thought you were referring to the opinion that the US government needs to be completely overhauled or even replaced by a new and border-line totalitarian form of government and that manufacturing and marketing practices need to be radically reformed.
I know that global warming exists and I do not deny it. I am discussing CS's counter to global warming.

 

[nmrocks]

Tex
Global warming seems to be a mainstream concern. There is currently a huge meeting in Bali where all the world's nations are trying to come to some sort of agreement. AL Gore has won a Nobel Prize for his work on this topic.The Australian public have just voted in a new Prime Minister who has made it his priority to sign up to Kyoto. When I was in New Zealand a couple of years ago there was a lot of concern about the hole in the Ozone layer above NZ.
Regards
Damian Clarke

Damian,
I would say the Press are doing everything in there power to make global warming the Mainstream issue which in and of itself should concern you. The first commandment of journalism in the mainstream press is "If it Bleeds it Leads" and global warming is the big bad boogy man in the closet that they can scare people to death endlessly. They blame Global Warming on every drought, flood, and shortage, freezing temps and blistering heat. Theyve made front page headlines every year since Katrina about how the hurricaine season this year would be even worse and we haven't even been hit by another since. Frankly, we have a expanding group of conservative media outlets that repeatedly point out with fact based information the lies and manipulations of the main stream media. They are agenda driven and never let the facts get in the way of o good scare story. Frankly, in countries outside the US unless you really dig for such information it's really hard to find.
In the free market place in the US dissenting views can grow and flourish if people listen and watch. Countries like Canada, if I understand correctly, do not allow the market place to dictate what people hear but rather what the beuracrats deem "Acceptable" in there television and radio programming and I'm not talking about obsenity. A conservative radio program like "Rush Limbaugh" can't get on the air in Canada because the gov't regulation refuses to approve it. Please correct me if I'm mistaken CS
Ray

 

[Tex]

Again, I never said that global warming was not a mainstream concern. I misunderstood what Damian was referring to. See my previous message.

Quote:
Global warming seems to be a mainstream concern.

This is obvious, and not what I thought you were referring to when you said mainstream. I would be ignorant to deny global warming. I thought you were referring to the opinion that the US government needs to be completely overhauled or even replaced by a new and border-line totalitarian form of government and that manufacturing and marketing practices need to be radically reformed.
I know that global warming exists and I do not deny it. I am discussing CS's counter to global warming.

 

[Rutledge]

Wow, I get a little behind on reading posts and look what happens--yeah, I'd say this was a political discussion-no politics, remember?
While I am pleased that people have pretty much kept their cool I don't see the point in continuing this interchange.
Why? First of all because this is a toy soldier forum not a political and socioeconomic issue forum.
And second because after 8 pages of political discussion have any of you changed your minds and "seen the light" of the opposing viewpoint? I very much doubt it.
Your viewpoints are biased by your political leanings, whatever they may be, and it is extremely unlikely anyone is going to reject their current beliefs in favor of the "other side's" argument. Political beliefs are deeply ingrained, not easily swayed and are a fast and easy way to cause division between people which is why we ask that you don't talk politics on this toy soldier forum.
Thank you,

Hmmmm, perhaps the next K&C figure line-up could be that of us cyber warriors typing away furiously at our computers?????

 

[Canadian Samurai]

I thought you were referring to the opinion that the US government needs to be completely overhauled or even replaced by a new and border-line totalitarian form of government

I said this.... where exactly? Since this discussion is at an end, I would love Tex if you could PM me your proposed solution to ensure we reduce global greenhouse gas emissions 40% by 2020, increasing to 80-90% by 2050, as mandatd by the IPCC models if we are to prevent the worst effects. What I propose is the least restrictive, least invasive, most free market method possible of achieving the massive reductions required while still keeping something of what we enjoy as a modern standard of living. One thing is for certain - if we continue to stick our heads in the sand and do nothing until the crises start erupting, you will see the totalitarian response you most fear because when people start to starve the last thing they will care about is their freedom.

 

[nmrocks]

well Guys,
It seems are hosts are getting a little uncomfortable due to "Forum Warming".
At this point I'll say thanks for an interesting discussion, I am glad to have been able to take part in a discussion with such diverse opionions and still recoginze that all points are valid and we'll all agree to disagree and I have no qualms about that.
Thanks again,
Ray

 

[Canadian Samurai]

Agreed, with a topic like this, with such great uncertainties about the future, all opinions and values are valid and welcome in what is sure to be the mother of all debates continuing on for probably the next century. It's a good sign for the future of the human race that a group of us with very different points of view could have this discussion without bludgeoning each other to death. I just like to get my friends thinking about these problems and I think I was succesful. In his movie Al Gore said climate change is a moral issue not a political issue so I don't think we violated any forum rules. Have a great Christmas guys. Have a good one Ray.

 

[maloyalo]

I'd like to make a point that in western societies at least, there are less fighting men & women. I don't know the real stat, but I believe in the US military the 'tip of the spear' is very small. Something like 20 support personnel for every fighting soldier. (I forget the number! but it was sorta old anyway...can someone help me out)

By the way, while I was courting my wife, we were both in the same exercise overseas and I thought she looked great even in complete chem warfare suit. Gas mask and all! Have you seen those (80's era) suits ? Now if that doesn't prove love is blind I do not know what could.

I sometimes post on the Greenpeace International forum. Interesting discussions there similiar to subjects brought up here. I don't know why they have the 'peace' part in the name though. Its anything but peacefull. And tends to younger crowd, but from everywhere literally. There are some posters there that are very knowledgable on political and environmental issues. I'm not stumping for them. I have quit going there in total disgust at least twice. But I eventually go back, so far. I like hearing from people from Latvia, and Indoneisa (even if I can't spell it), etc etc. So many perspectives. So if you like those kinds of discussions, you might give it a try, but put on your thicker skins.