Wikipedia? (2 Viewers)

jazzeum

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I've often thought of this site as rather unreliable. As a former would be historian, any site that allows user to edit it is inherently unreliable. As a matter of fact, my son's school has a policy of not allowing it to be used as a source in writing papers. This article from today's New York Times shows how inherently unreliable it is.

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Last year a Wikipedia visitor edited the entry for the SeaWorld theme parks to change all mentions of “orcas” to “killer whales,” insisting that this was a more accurate name for the species.

There was another, unexplained edit: a paragraph about criticism of SeaWorld’s “lack of respect toward its orcas” disappeared. Both changes, it turns out, originated at a computer at Anheuser-Busch, SeaWorld’s owner.

Dozens of similar examples of insider editing came to light last week through WikiScanner, a new Web site that traces the source of millions of changes to Wikipedia, the popular online encyclopedia that anyone can edit.

The site, wikiscanner.virgil.gr, created by a computer science graduate student, cross-references an edited entry on Wikipedia with the owner of the computer network where the change originated, using the Internet protocol address of the editor’s network. The address information was already available on Wikipedia, but the new site makes it much easier to connect those numbers with the names of network owners.

Since Wired News first wrote about WikiScanner last week, Internet users have spotted plenty of interesting changes to Wikipedia by people at nonprofit groups and government entities like the Central Intelligence Agency. Many of the most obviously self-interested edits have come from corporate networks.

Last year, someone at PepsiCo deleted several paragraphs of the Pepsi entry that focused on its detrimental health effects. In 2005, someone using a computer at Diebold deleted paragraphs that criticized the company’s electronic voting machines. That same year, someone inside Wal-Mart Stores changed an entry about employee compensation.

Jimmy Wales, founder of the Wikimedia Foundation, which runs Wikipedia, says the site discourages such “conflict of interest” editing. “We don’t make it an absolute rule,” he said, “but it’s definitely a guideline.”

Internet experts, for the most part, have welcomed WikiScanner. “I’m very glad that this has been exposed,” said Susan P. Crawford, a visiting professor at the University of Michigan Law School. “Wikipedia is a reliable first stop for getting information about a huge variety of things, and it shouldn’t be manipulated as a public relations arm of major companies.”

Most of the corporate revisions did not stay posted for long. Many Wikipedia entries are in a constant state of flux as they are edited and re-edited, and the site’s many regular volunteers and administrators tend to keep an eye out for bias.

In general, changes to a Wikipedia page cannot be traced to an individual, only to the owner of a particular network. In 2004, someone using a computer at ExxonMobil made substantial changes to a description of the 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill in Alaska, playing down its impact on the area’s wildlife and casting a positive light on compensation payments the company had made to victims of the spill.

Gantt Walton, a spokesman for the company, said that although the revisions appeared to have come from an ExxonMobil computer, the company has more than 80,000 employees around the world, making it “more than a difficult task” to figure out who made the changes.

Mr. Walton said ExxonMobil employees “are not authorized to update Wikipedia with company computers without company endorsement.” The company’s preferred approach, he said, would be to use Wikipedia’s “talk” pages, a forum for discussing Wikipedia entries.

Mr. Wales also said the “talk” pages are where Wikipedia encourages editors with a conflict of interest to suggest revisions.

“If someone sees a simple factual error about their company, we really don’t mind if they go in and edit,” he said. But if a revision is likely to be controversial, he added, “the best thing to do is log in, go to the ‘talk’ page, identify yourself openly, and say, ‘I’m the communications person from such and such company.’ The community responds very well, especially if the person isn’t combative.”

Mike Sitrick, a longtime public relations consultant in Los Angeles, agreed. “I’m a big believer that if you’re going to correct it, correct it with a name,” he said. “Otherwise it hurts your credibility.”

An Anheuser-Busch employee eventually took responsibility for the changes to the SeaWorld page — but only after being challenged about them twice by another user. A person identifying himself as Fred Jacobs, communications director for the company’s theme park unit, said on the entry’s “talk” page that discussion of the ethics of keeping sea creatures captive “belongs in an article devoted to that subject.”

Mr. Jacobs referred questions about the editing to another company office, which did not respond to requests for comment.

The SCO Group, a software maker in Salt Lake City, made changes to product information in its own entry this year. The company has been involved in legal disputes over the rights to some open-source software.

Craig Bushman, the company’s vice president for marketing, said he had told a public relations manager to make the changes. “The whole history of SCO had been written by someone who doesn’t know the history of SCO,” he said.

An hour after the changes were made, he said, they disappeared. The company e-mailed Wikipedia administrators, who replied that the changes had been rejected because of a lack of objectivity.

In the case of the Wal-Mart revisions, David Tovar, a company spokesman, said that while he was not aware of anyone within Wal-Mart who had asked to contribute to Wikipedia, the changes could have been made by any of its workers, who are called associates. “We consider our associates our best ambassadors,” he said, “and sometimes they speak out to set the record straight.”

At Dell, the computer maker, employees are told that they need to identify their employer if they write about the company online. “Whether it’s Wikipedia, Twitter or MySpace, our policy is you have to let someone know you’re from Dell,” said Bob Pearson, a Dell spokesman.

Before that policy was put in place a year ago, changes to parts of Dell’s Wikipedia entry discussing its offshore outsourcing of customer service were made by someone from the Dell corporate network.

Most people using company networks to edit Wikipedia entries dabble in subjects that appear to have little to do with their work, although sometimes they cannot resist a silly dig at the competition.

Last year, someone using a computer at the Washington Post Company changed the name of the owner of a free local paper, The Washington Examiner, from Philip Anschutz to Charles Manson. A person using a computer at CBS updated the page on Wolf Blitzer of CNN to add that his real name was Irving Federman. (It is actually Wolf Blitzer.)

And The New York Times Company is among those whose employees have made, among hundreds of innocuous changes, a handful of questionable edits. A change to the page on President Bush, for instance, repeated the word “jerk” 12 times. And in the entry for Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state, the word “pianist” was changed to “penis.”

“It’s impossible to determine who did any of these things,” said Craig R. Whitney, the standards editor of The Times. “But you can only shake your head when you see what was done to the George Bush and Condoleezza Rice entries.”

WikiScanner is the work of Virgil Griffith, 24, a cognitive scientist who is a visiting researcher at the Santa Fe Institute in New Mexico. Mr. Griffith, who spent two weeks this summer writing the software for the site, said he got interested in creating such a tool last year after hearing of members of Congress who were editing their own entries.

Mr. Griffith said he “was expecting a few people to get nailed pretty hard” after his service became public. “The yield, in terms of public relations disasters, is about what I expected.”

Mr. Griffith, who also likes to refer to himself as a “disruptive technologist,” said he was certain any more examples of self-interested editing would come out in the next few weeks, “because the data set is just so huge.”

Mr. Wales, who called the scanner “a very clever idea,” said he was considering some changes to Wikipedia to help visitors better understand what information is recorded about them.

“When someone clicks on ‘edit,’ it would be interesting if we could say, ‘Hi, thank you for editing. We see you’re logged in from The New York Times. Keep in mind that we know that, and it’s public information,’ ” he said. “That might make them stop and think.”
 
Thanks Brad, never knew that the info could be edited at will, by anyone.....Michael
 
Hi Brad,

Yes, thanks for posting that very interesting article. Like Michael, I was not completely clear on how easily information could be edited. Posting a copy of that article is a service to all of us.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat
 
I don’t use Wikipedia and I don’t take references quoting it seriously. I’m also highly sceptical of private sites – for example I found one on the Black Watch, beautifully presented with the first five fact listed totally wrong.

I like old fashioned references that can be checked. I don’t always have footnotes in my pieces or books however I have the material available if queried.
 
Wikipedia is a product of my generation so perhaps I can shed a bit more light on it:

Because of the ability for anyone to edit most articles, Wikipedia is inherently problematic as a source and for now is unacceptable to be cited in a university paper. It is very important that everyone recognize its limitations.

HOWEVER, that very feature is also why it is so popular. The name wiki refers to collaboration by, for and of the people.

In many cases only experts used to be allowed to write about subjects in places where their views would be read by millions. Only those who had power and money could influence public thought and write the history books. But Wikipedia and the internet more generally is starting to shake up the status quo in society that only the super-rich and highly placed can affect public understanding of the world. So corporations, governments and political parties are busy trying to abuse and censor Wikipedia precisely because it is a threat to their existing monopoly on information. For example, perhaps if we had Wikipedia earlier in our history as a species than we would have been able to have more informed debates here about interpretations of military history, because the victors wouldn’t have been the only ones writing the official accounts.

Many academics have written in recent years how astonished they are at the general quality of the entries on Wikipedia – if told about it five years ago they would not have believed it was possible for an encyclopedia that could be edited by anyone to be so well done. A peer-reviewed article in the Journal Nature found that among 42 selected entries, there was on average four errors in a Wikipedia article versus three in encyclopedia Britannica. So essentially many of the entries are Britannica-level quality. The reason for this is simple - by allowing everyone to contribute, Wikipedia taps a huge body of knowledge about the world - us - which is far larger than any editorial team of Britannica could ever hope to be. Some of us have skewed interpretations of the world but the hope is there will always be a counter-balancing force out there to keep Wikipedia honest, and it is constantly being updated accordingly. For every Nazi revisionist there is someone from a Jewish rights organization; for every Exxon Mobil employee there is an environmentalist; for every wiki vandal there is someone there to clean it up, so hopefully it all works out in the wash.

After all, that is what out chosen style of governance, democracy, is all about. Rule by the majority. Since everyone has access to Wikipedia, then the views of the majority should prevail in the end, which is really no different than how knowledge is currently spread. Even today, supposed experts on subjects often disagree completely about them – the idea that the scientific method can remove all uncertainty and cultural relativism is nonsense. So are traditional sources really that much better? Just like an academic journal or political debate, Wikipedia is simply another public forum for people to hack out their differences. Such "Open-source architecture" is the wave of the future of the internet, by allowing everyone to take an active hand in the design and content of websites (and beyond them the real world) to share and contribute their knowledge. Perhaps all this asks too much of the human race - accountability, honesty, respect for other’s contributions and opinions, and not abusing this new medium for the purposes of hidden agendas or ideological crusades. We will see.
 
Wikipedia is a terrific resource and I often use it as I find it has less bias than most published books that need to please the majority for sales success: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia

It's like a forum, if we were all moderators I reckon we could get rid of all bias :D
 
Oz, if everyone would THINK like a moderator when interacting on this forum we wouldn't even NEED moderators. Kinda like world peace in a bottle.
 
Oz, if everyone would THINK like a moderator when interacting on this forum we wouldn't even NEED moderators. Kinda like world peace in a bottle.

Shannon, they tried world peace in a bottle, but everyone suffocated :eek:
 
The thing to do about wikipedia is not to use it for research but just use it for a quick reference ie if your wondering about a thing you have never heard of on the tv. But the thing about the editing is that they have mods that will change it back in time if a change can not be validated. they have all of the articles cached so if some deletes or radically changes an article they can always bring it back to its original.
 
My school does not allow wikipedia. But then again my 9th grade history book got the casualty figures way off

ACW- Actual-620,000/text book-720,000
WW2-Actual-50-60 milion /text book-35-40 milion
American involvement WW2-actual-280,000/text book-480,000
Chinese involvement WW2-actual-20 million/text book-2 million
 
My school does not allow wikipedia. But then again my 9th grade history book got the casualty figures way off

ACW- Actual-620,000/text book-720,000
WW2-Actual-50-60 milion /text book-35-40 milion
American involvement WW2-actual-280,000/text book-480,000
Chinese involvement WW2-actual-20 million/text book-2 million

where do you go to school.
 
i dont meet people who i talk to online im afraid there going to turn out to be a 60 year old pedafile
 
where do you go to school.
Hi guys,
It's better not to answer questions like these on a public forum if you are a minor.
If you are both indeed customers of Troops of Time it is best to go through the owner Tim to be introduced etc.
You're right rws591, it is better to be safe than sorry in giving out personal information on the internet as a young adult. This forum is open for reading by anyone, member or not so it is good to keep that in mind when talking about yourself.
Stay safe and back to the soldiers...
 
i dont meet people who i talk to online im afraid there going to turn out to be a 60 year old pedafile

That's a wise policy but I was talking to Tim the other day and he spoke highly of young Mr. Lee.
 
maybe i will meet him at troops of time but bring some protection(large pistol)
 
Hi guys,
It's better not to answer questions like these on a public forum if you are a minor.
If you are both indeed customers of Troops of Time it is best to go through the owner Tim to be introduced etc.
You're right rws591, it is better to be safe than sorry in giving out personal information on the internet as a young adult. This forum is open for reading by anyone, member or not so it is good to keep that in mind when talking about yourself.
Stay safe and back to the soldiers...

You should have told us that before we met Brad:D......Michael
 
My school does not allow wikipedia. But then again my 9th grade history book got the casualty figures way off

ACW- Actual-620,000/text book-720,000
WW2-Actual-50-60 milion /text book-35-40 milion
American involvement WW2-actual-280,000/text book-480,000
Chinese involvement WW2-actual-20 million/text book-2 million

Remember that old homily
Never use a single source
 
I, personally, would not advise trusting Wikipedia under any circumstances.
I have a friend, who, as a joke, wrote an article about made-up "Bonsai Babies" and posted it on Wikipedia for several weeks before taking it down himself. It was never caught.
The site was also banned from my school due to students negatively-editing the articles about our rival schools.
Most teachers and college professors refuse to accept Wikipedia as a remotely legitimate source for any papers.
It is not very reliable, though it can be handy.
 

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