Wwii?? (1 Viewer)

[ketelone]

I have all the Conte WWII playsets. When I read the entry about possible new Conte WWII of course I am curious, and excited. If it's not to be, so be it, but I am disappointed. I enjoy this hobby. I hope Conte or Barszo or any of the playset producers will not abandon this era.

 

[larso]

I think WW2 will always be an era that gets strong attention. I think in the future it'll be considered like many of us currently consider the Napoleonic Wars. Playsets are expensive though and I think will probably need the boost that big Hollywood movies give in terms of raising interest. I'm confident there are many more such movies to come but it's hard to hit all the right notes and have the very broad appeal that something like 'Saving Private Ryan' did.

 

[Jack]

I think WW2 will always be an era that gets strong attention. I think in the future it'll be considered like many of us currently consider the Napoleonic Wars. Playsets are expensive though and I think will probably need the boost that big Hollywood movies give in terms of raising interest. I'm confident there are many more such movies to come but it's hard to hit all the right notes and have the very broad appeal that something like 'Saving Private Ryan' did.

Interesting though that the German material sells so strongly, as does, I assume the Allied D-Day/Liberation of Europe. Do they both feed off each other ie if you buy one you need the opposition, so it sells in roughly comparable numbers? Or is there something about defeating Nazism that makes it appear a just war? Or does the 'succes' of the Germans (as distinct from the morality of their actions) in taking on the world and 'almost doing it' appeal in the same way as the actions of other warrior codes such as the Templars?

 

[larso]

I think it's something different for each person. The 'under-dog' thing is part of it. I think there is something similar to the fascination with the South in the Civil War - though I hasten to add they are polar opposites in many key ways! Mind you, even the under-dog thing is only a factor for the last year or two. The huge variety in weapons and uniforms is probably a factor too. Also the irony that many German soldiers fought bravely and tacticly but in the service of an absolutely odious cause. Romantic certainly isn't the word but it's easy to admire someone doing his job bravely - back to the wall style - despite the circumstances.

 

[Firebat]

It actually bothers me that the German stuff is so popular.....But they did have cool stuff. That is why in our presentation of The Great Crusade we try as best as we can to present our story from the Allies side to encourage manufacturers such as Conte to do more WWII (Especially Allies). I love Conte's US Paras, we also hounded Thomas Gunn to do US Paras. Alex

 

[gk5717]

It actually bothers me that the German stuff is so popular.....But they did have cool stuff. That is why in our presentation of The Great Crusade we try as best as we can to present our story from the Allies side to encourage manufacturers such as Conte to do more WWII (Especially Allies). I love Conte's US Paras, we also hounded Thomas Gunn to do US Paras. Alex

I don,t want to stir the pot, but does it REALLY "bother you that German stuff is so popular" I mean do you toss and turn at night, can,t sleep, trying to ponder that question?
These are figures made to represent history. Hitler was evil, but it doesn,t "bother me" that there are figures of him.
Gary

 

[Jack]

It actually bothers me that the German stuff is so popular.....But they did have cool stuff. That is why in our presentation of The Great Crusade we try as best as we can to present our story from the Allies side to encourage manufacturers such as Conte to do more WWII (Especially Allies). I love Conte's US Paras, we also hounded Thomas Gunn to do US Paras. Alex

I wonder if the fact that so much of the German effort was directed at the Russians softens the more odious part of their war record. An enemy of an enemy is a friend approach to foreign affairs! Not to start a political discussion, but someone was going to have to fight the Russians at some point in the middle of the 20th Century. Are Russian Eastern Front figures popular as anything other than necessary additions to many German displays?

By the way - I love the 'Great Crusade' descriptor of the Allied liberation of Europe - was that Eisenhowers? I think one of the correspondents might have also written a book under the same or similar title - Crusade in Europe?

Its a shame the word Crusade has become a bit contentious again after all these years.

 

[Firebat]

I wonder if the fact that so much of the German effort was directed at the Russians softens the more odious part of their war record. An enemy of an enemy is a friend approach to foreign affairs! Not to start a political discussion, but someone was going to have to fight the Russians at some point in the middle of the 20th Century. Are Russian Eastern Front figures popular as anything other than necessary additions to many German displays?

By the way - I love the 'Great Crusade' descriptor of the Allied liberation of Europe - was that Eisenhowers? I think one of the correspondents might have also written a book under the same or similar title - Crusade in Europe?

Its a shame the word Crusade has become a bit contentious again after all these years.

I believe THE GREAT CRUSADE was Eisenhowers phrase. No I do not loose any sleep over the German equiptment being so popular. But I am am American whose Father and Uncles fought and were injured in WWII, so I do tend to favor the Allies, no matted how glamorous the German stuff was. And my modeling will always reflect that ! Alex

 

[LordAnhausen]

I don,t want to stir the pot, but does it REALLY "bother you that German stuff is so popular" I mean do you toss and turn at night, can,t sleep, trying to ponder that question?
These are figures made to represent history. Hitler was evil, but it doesn,t "bother me" that there are figures of him.
Gary

IMHO your comments appear precisely intended to stir the pot but I'm sure you already knew that

Companies like K&C which glamorize Nazi parades or Hitler are troubling to me. Companies who make figures showing the Nazis being battled , defeated or receiving their just desserts are ok with me. Telling the story via toy soldiers of the blood , sweat and tears which it took to bring the Nazis to their demise is great but toy soldier sets which show the Nazis patting children on the head, saluting Hitler, and so on are deplorable.
Many of us lost family members during WW2 because of Hitler and I believe we have a right to feel differently regarding this villain and his henchmen. Ebay expressly prohibits the sale of ANY Hitler or Nazi figures or other paraphernalia .
Their position reflects good taste as well as the overwhelming majority of sensible and sensitive viewpoints. I wish more toy soldier dealers would decline to sell any Nazi toys unless the Nazis are incidental to the heroism being shown by those who rid the world of these vermin.

 

[Mitch]

Gary makes some good points. I also think e-bay does allow nazi stuff to be sold its on their all the time and, you just have to look to see this stuff is on sale every day.

I here these statements all the time that I want my allied sets doing battle against the tyranical germans and, I don't support the germans but, when you look at the collections of these people they are all lined up in neat little rows. Where do you draw the line on Nazi's SS parade troops or, SS battle divisions or, the many Heer divisions which, supported the regime??

I think Alex coming from the plastic kit world will be only too aware of the fact that this genre has been predominantly german fixated since its conception. German sets sell well if they did not we would not see it

German stuff is popular not because everyone is a closet nazi or, has sympathy or, supports their ideals just simply cause the stuff looks good
Mitch


Anhausen;454748]IMHO your comments appear precisely intended to stir the pot but I'm sure you already knew that

Companies like K&C which glamorize Nazi parades or Hitler are troubling to me. Companies who make figures showing the Nazis being battled , defeated or receiving their just desserts are ok with me. Telling the story via toy soldiers of the blood , sweat and tears which it took to bring the Nazis to their demise is great but toy soldier sets which show the Nazis patting children on the head, saluting Hitler, and so on are deplorable.
Many of us lost family members during WW2 because of Hitler and I believe we have a right to feel differently regarding this villain and his henchmen. Ebay expressly prohibits the sale of ANY Hitler or Nazi figures or other paraphernalia .
Their position reflects good taste as well as the overwhelming majority of sensible and sensitive viewpoints. I wish more toy soldier dealers would decline to sell any Nazi toys unless the Nazis are incidental to the heroism being shown by those who rid the world of these vermin.[/QUOTE]

 

[waynepoo]

IMHO your comments appear precisely intended to stir the pot but I'm sure you already knew that

Companies like K&C which glamorize Nazi parades or Hitler are troubling to me. Companies who make figures showing the Nazis being battled , defeated or receiving their just desserts are ok with me. Telling the story via toy soldiers of the blood , sweat and tears which it took to bring the Nazis to their demise is great but toy soldier sets which show the Nazis patting children on the head, saluting Hitler, and so on are deplorable.
Many of us lost family members during WW2 because of Hitler and I believe we have a right to feel differently regarding this villain and his henchmen. Ebay expressly prohibits the sale of ANY Hitler or Nazi figures or other paraphernalia .
Their position reflects good taste as well as the overwhelming majority of sensible and sensitive viewpoints. I wish more toy soldier dealers would decline to sell any Nazi toys unless the Nazis are incidental to the heroism being shown by those who rid the world of these vermin.

I agree that Hitler and his nazis were and are some of historys worst but think about it a bit - Satlin was far worst on the murder scale, and his victims were his own countrymen! and the soviets were one of our allies. Mao was even worse again killing millions of his own. The British and the Yanks also have been very bad at killing inocents at times during the past. Should we then not make any figures of any soldiers from any time thro history. Ones bad guy is anothers hero, it's all about your point of view, and my point of view is that you have the right to be wrong.
Waynepoo.

 

[uksubs]

Some interesting views

 

[Jack]

I agree that Hitler and his nazis were and are some of historys worst but think about it a bit - Satlin was far worst on the murder scale, and his victims were his own countrymen! and the soviets were one of our allies. Mao was even worse again killing millions of his own. The British and the Yanks also have been very bad at killing inocents at times during the past. Should we then not make any figures of any soldiers from any time thro history. Ones bad guy is anothers hero, it's all about your point of view, and my point of view is that you have the right to be wrong.
Waynepoo.

Goes to show though that my post that included a little whimper that I did not intend to 'start a political discussion' was a bit hopeful!

I think we need to emphasise context - not the Nazi context but our own. Years ago when at school the authorities were concerned about our obssession with rude jokes - glad we all got over that! - and one of our more sympathetic teachers said that if we laugh at the smutiness that is bad, but if we laugh because it is clever, that was different.

So - if you collect toy soldiers depicting the Nazis - and you do so as a history buff or as a toy soldier collector, that, in my opinion, is fine. If you drag your jackboots out of the closet in April at your annual Hitler's birthday party gathering and show off your soldiers, that would be bad!

 

[Rob]

Goes to show though that my post that included a little whimper that I did not intend to 'start a political discussion' was a bit hopeful!

I think we need to emphasise context - not the Nazi context but our own. Years ago when at school the authorities were concerned about our obssession with rude jokes - glad we all got over that! - and one of our more sympathetic teachers said that if we laugh at the smutiness that is bad, but if we laugh because it is clever, that was different.

So - if you collect toy soldiers depicting the Nazis - and you do so as a history buff or as a toy soldier collector, that, in my opinion, is fine. If you drag your jackboots out of the closet in April at your annual Hitler's birthday party gathering and show off your soldiers, that would be bad!

Spot on Jack, spot on.{bravo}}

Rob

 

[LordAnhausen]

I agree that Hitler and his nazis were and are some of historys worst but think about it a bit - Satlin was far worst on the murder scale, and his victims were his own countrymen! and the soviets were one of our allies. Mao was even worse again killing millions of his own. The British and the Yanks also have been very bad at killing inocents at times during the past. Should we then not make any figures of any soldiers from any time thro history. Ones bad guy is anothers hero, it's all about your point of view, and my point of view is that you have the right to be wrong.
Waynepoo.

First, I'd like to meet the guy who is sick enough to say that Hitler is his hero. I have to hope that Hitler is one of those vile individuals that no sane person could consider a hero .
I guess figure sets with little blonde Aryan children handing Adolf bouquets of flowers are in good taste? The fact that these apparently sell well is disturbing.
If you have any Jewish friends who have lost family in the Holocaust you might ask them how they feel

 

[Firebat]

I was strictly referring to model vehicles and figures. It just seems like the German stuff is very popular...And their stuff is cool. But when it comes to reality and my modeling. I admit I almost always make the Allies look victorious and the Germas look defeated.

I think this is obvious in our Great Crusade presentation. And it will continue that way...You can count on that. But we do show harsh reality, and we did not forget about the Holocaust, which we will continue to touch on. It took a lot of nerve on our part. I never saw anyone depict that before. And we hope we did it with class.

 

[waynepoo]

First, I'd like to meet the guy who is sick enough to say that Hitler is his hero. I have to hope that Hitler is one of those vile individuals that no sane person could consider a hero .
I guess figure sets with little blonde Aryan children handing Adolf bouquets of flowers are in good taste? The fact that these apparently sell well is disturbing.
If you have any Jewish friends who have lost family in the Holocaust you might ask them how they feel

I should leave this subject alone, but i'll just say this - Hitler was one of history worst bad guys AND NO HERO OF MINE- but he had plenty of company and he did not invent mass murder.Do you object to any one collecting soviet figures?(who by the way killed far more people than Hilter including jews)History speaks for itself.
Waynepoo.

 

[larso]

I have some disquiet about some sets put out that to me glamorise the Nazies. So big Swastika flags and heaps of marching SS will not ever be part of my collecting. The Nazies did know how to run a spectacle though, so I'm not surprised that with all the trappings and colour, that there are plenty of buyers. Conte's focus on battlefield soldiers suits me far better.

 

[Jack]

I have some disquiet about some sets put out that to me glamorise the Nazies. So big Swastika flags and heaps of marching SS will not ever be part of my collecting. The Nazies did know how to run a spectacle though, so I'm not surprised that with all the trappings and colour, that there are plenty of buyers. Conte's focus on battlefield soldiers suits me far better.

Larso

That is an artificial distinction my blonde, blue eyed Nordic friend. Without the spectacle there would be no battlefield soldiers to collect! You cannot compartmentalise in this manner. In part, it was the appeal of Nazi spectacle which paved the way for Hitler's rise to power. You have seen the pictures and films as often as I have - the flags, the searchlights, the speeches, the ritual. You cannot play Pontious Pilate and wash your hands of the historically awkward bits. In or out Larso - which is it to be? Now get back to the cricket!

Jack

 

[larso]

"You cannot play Pontious Pilate and wash your hands of the historically awkward bits."

Well more silver haired than blonde but we're talking about what I'd part with my money for. I can like golf (I don't) and admire Tiger Woods but it doesn't mean I'd be happy to see him as my marriage counsellor.