US/Israel Launches Op Epic Fury Against Iran (2 Viewers)

Iran has run the clock out yet again on a chance to save themselves. If Trump brings the hammer down, it will be no one's fault but their own. They were given many opportunities to simply compromise. The bar is pretty low. Just don't fund terrorism or build a nuclear weapon to destroy anyone and you can live in peace and prosperity.
 
Running the clock down gives them time to get more arms shipments from Russia, the Caspian Sea route was destroyed by Israel a couple weeks ago, so now going by land and China has the road it built and paid for, as air transport, would be a little risky, but Irans a large country and they may think there is minimal risk to flights, with sufficient warning.
I would imagine missile launchers and Air defence equipment are at the top of their wants list, but how much they are receiving ?
I would expect Satellites and ground intelligence can estimate.
In the meantime more pieces of the naval jigsaw and it's ground action elements are steaming towards the gulf, meaning more pressure on the regime.
President Trump and his advisors have their own schedule as well and while not having unlimited time, will the Irans face internal pressures ?
The rest of the World is obviously getting desperate with their need if gas and oil and itching for it to be resolved, makes me share my head, when people get on their high horses, when I suggest that they may face surcharges to flight prices because of the war and say oh no, they have to keep to agreements, not thinking that war changes a lot of things and a lot of insurance policies just isn't going to pay out, because of it.
 
Horus said:
Running the clock down gives them time to get more arms shipments from Russia, the Caspian Sea route was destroyed by Israel a couple weeks ago, so now going by land and China has the road it built and paid for, as air transport, would be a little risky, but Irans a large country and they may think there is minimal risk to flights, with sufficient warning.
I would imagine missile launchers and Air defence equipment are at the top of their wants list, but how much they are receiving ?
I would expect Satellites and ground intelligence can estimate.
In the meantime more pieces of the naval jigsaw and it's ground action elements are steaming towards the gulf, meaning more pressure on the regime.
President Trump and his advisors have their own schedule as well and while not having unlimited time, will the Irans face internal pressures ?
The rest of the World is obviously getting desperate with their need if gas and oil and itching for it to be resolved, makes me share my head, when people get on their high horses, when I suggest that they may face surcharges to flight prices because of the war and say oh no, they have to keep to agreements, not thinking that war changes a lot of things and a lot of insurance policies just isn't going to pay out, because of it.
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Waging a war in the middle east and how this has totally disrupted international supply chains for the life blood of the worldwide economy, gas and oil, was a huge overreach by Trump, he's tanking the worldwide and US economy with all of this. EVERYTHING in the US is getting more expensive by the day; how many times does a sitting president in this country not get it through his cast iron head that the #1 concern of every Tom, Dick and Harry is the economy and what it costs for gas, groceries and utilities, FEW care about how Iran is a threat to the US, it does not register with the average American, period, full stop.

Biden sank the Democrat party with his energy policy and how gas hit 5.00 a gallon, which caused prices for utilities, groceries and most consumer goods to skyrocket, Trump is doing the same thing to the Republican party, how long will it take to restock our oil reserve, bring the prices down and stabilize the stock market, till the end of the year? That is too late, the clock will strike midnight in November, that's all she wrote.

Not to mention as you pointed out; anyone who thinks Russia and China is not aiding Iran is completely out to lunch, of course they are, 1000% they are, right under our noses.

At Easter dinner today, my friends 13 year old son said to me "I don't understand how the US could start a war and not make priority #1 keeping the strait of Hormuz open".............again; this from a fvcking 13 year old kid, how Trump did not understand this is beyond my comprehension.

And his neverending ultimatums are getting tiresome...............Iran has until Tuesday morning US time to open the strait of Hormuz "or else"........."or else" what? He's going to bomb their electric power plants and water decontamination plants.................yeah, that's a war crime, imagine no water or electricity for the whole country............way to win hearts and minds, it will turn the whole country against the US.

As someone stated, he's painting the floor of a room and has painted himself into a corner, this is not going to end well.
 
Combat said:
Iran has run the clock out yet again on a chance to save themselves. If Trump brings the hammer down, it will be no one's fault but their own. They were given many opportunities to simply compromise. The bar is pretty low. Just don't fund terrorism or build a nuclear weapon to destroy anyone and you can live in peace and prosperity.
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I thought it was a Tuesday deadline? No?
 
Warrior said:
Waging a war in the middle east and how this has totally disrupted international supply chains for the life blood of the worldwide economy, gas and oil, was a huge overreach by Trump, he's tanking the worldwide and US economy with all of this. EVERYTHING in the US is getting more expensive by the day; how many times does a sitting president in this country not get it through his cast iron head that the #1 concern of every Tom, Dick and Harry is the economy and what it costs for gas, groceries and utilities, FEW care about how Iran is a threat to the US, it does not register with the average American, period, full stop.

Biden sank the Democrat party with his energy policy and how gas hit 5.00 a gallon, which caused prices for utilities, groceries and most consumer goods to skyrocket, Trump is doing the same thing to the Republican party, how long will it take to restock our oil reserve, bring the prices down and stabilize the stock market, till the end of the year? That is too late, the clock will strike midnight in November, that's all she wrote.

Not to mention as you pointed out; anyone who thinks Russia and China is not aiding Iran is completely out to lunch, of course they are, 1000% they are, right under our noses.

At Easter dinner today, my friends 13 year old son said to me "I don't understand how the US could start a war and not make priority #1 keeping the strait of Hormuz open".............again; this from a fvcking 13 year old kid, how Trump did not understand this is beyond my comprehension.

And his neverending ultimatums are getting tiresome...............Iran has until Tuesday morning US time to open the strait of Hormuz "or else"........."or else" what? He's going to bomb their electric power plants and water decontamination plants.................yeah, that's a war crime, imagine no water or electricity for the whole country............way to win hearts and minds, it will turn the whole country against the US.

As someone stated, he's painting the floor of a room and has painted himself into a corner, this is not going to end well.
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It looks bad...but it might all work out...I got my fingers crossed...
 
mikemiller1955 said:
It looks bad...but it might all work out...I got my fingers crossed...
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You can't negotiate with fanatics, doesn't work, never has, never will.

Something else that should have been considered before going all in, but gee, what do I know.

Gotta give my far right Penn grad egghead cousin credit; this is the hill he's going to die on, he will never, as in ever, admit this was a bad idea, he's still all in on this war.

Gotta admire a man who stands behind his beliefs no matter what.
 
Warrior said:
You can't negotiate with fanatics, doesn't work, never has, never will.

Something else that should have been considered before going all in, but gee, what do I know.

Gotta give my far right Penn grad egghead cousin credit; this is the hill he's going to die on, he will never, as in ever, admit this was a bad idea, he's still all in on this war.

Gotta admire a man who stands behind his beliefs no matter what.
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I would not necessarily consider this a bad idea, some good objections have been met and anytime we can cause harm to this regime, it is a good idea in my book. The question of course is the finish. That said, the economy will be fine, it goes up, it goes down, you have to ride it, you can't control it. IF it wasn't the war, there would be some other pressure perceived or real. That is how our economy works. Watching it or watching the stock market daily is not at our collective level of investment worthwhile. I stopped trying to spin windmills I can't control.

Tom
 
Not seen a detailed official version, but this gives a lot of probable information on Airmen rescue.

 
tdubel said:
I would not necessarily consider this a bad idea, some good objections have been met and anytime we can cause harm to this regime, it is a good idea in my book. The question of course is the finish. That said, the economy will be fine, it goes up, it goes down, you have to ride it, you can't control it. IF it wasn't the war, there would be some other pressure perceived or real. That is how our economy works. Watching it or watching the stock market daily is not at our collective level of investment worthwhile. I stopped trying to spin windmills I can't control.

Tom
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Exactly; it's the finishing, that's the rub.

And boy did you nail it; watching it daily will drive you to drink, better off getting the status update in the mail every three months.

Pretty sure it was you who said the wins are "Meh, great, whatever" but the losses......................they eat at you.

Have to learn to roll with it, time is still on our side, but for me, not as much time as there used to be, at least for me.
 
The latest from the CNN pundits is that it would be a war crime to bomb Iranian bridges and electric grid. In their dreams, Trump faces a Nuremberg-like trial. They rarely criticize Iran for targeting civilians and murdering thousands of their own "no kings" protestors. Nothing to see there.
 
Combat said:
The latest from the CNN pundits is that it would be a war crime to bomb Iranian bridges and electric grid. In their dreams, Trump faces a Nuremberg-like trial. They rarely criticize Iran for targeting civilians and murdering thousands of their own "no kings" protestors. Nothing to see there.
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Russell Crowe could play Trump, he did a great job as Goering, didn't even have to gain weight to play the part, he'd need to add about 50 to get it right.
 
heard on the news that Iranian officials have called on young people...
including students, artists, and athletes...
to form "human chains" around power plants and critical infrastructures...

if true...this has to be one of the sickest things I have ever heard...

and with that said...it may deter bombing them...
 
mikemiller1955 said:
heard on the news that Iranian officials have called on young people...
including students, artists, and athletes...
to form "human chains" around power plants and critical infrastructures...

if true...this has to be one of the sickest things I have ever heard...

and with that said...it may deter bombing them...
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Just another example of why they need to go. I do wonder why the US doesn't just hack the electric grid system and shut it down rather than destroying it. I'm sure we have that capability. At some point, the US and/or other international countries will likely have to pay to repair the infrastructure damage if they want Iran to become a part of civilization. As a deal maker, I think Trump has a particularly difficult time getting his head around the fact that he is not dealing with people who will take the best offer but instead are willing to go down with the ship in a lose-lose scenario.
 
Combat said:
Just another example of why they need to go. I do wonder why the US doesn't just hack the electric grid system and shut it down rather than destroying it. I'm sure we have that capability. At some point, the US and/or other international countries will likely have to pay to repair the infrastructure damage if they want Iran to become a part of civilization. As a deal maker, I think Trump has a particularly difficult time getting his head around the fact that he is not dealing with people who will take the best offer but instead are willing to go down with the ship in a lose-lose scenario.
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that last sentence rings true to me...
Iran refusing any attempts to de-escalate this conflict through negotiations...
seems paramount to them...
almost like their goal is martyrdom...

and I do like the idea of hacking their electric grid instead of destroying it...
 
One thing that needs to be established is that he does not know how to negotiate. It’s a complete myth. I used to negotiate for a living and the mistakes he makes in negotiations — giving away points before he has to, for example — makes me shake my head. The NY real estate world is different than the political world and Iran is a different adversary than he’s used to bullying. Moreover, the people he uses for negotiations, Kushner and Witkoff are complete amateurs.
 
mikemiller1955 said:
that last sentence rings true to me...
Iran refusing any attempts to de-escalate this conflict through negotiations...
seems paramount to them...
almost like their goal is martyrdom...
Click to expand...

jazzeum said:
One thing that needs to be established is that he does not know how to negotiate. It’s a complete myth. I used to negotiate for a living and the mistakes he makes in negotiations — giving away points before he has to, for example — makes me shake my head. The NY real estate world is different than the political world and Iran is a different adversary than he’s used to bullying. Moreover, the people he uses for negotiations, Kushner and Witkoff are complete amateurs.
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agreed...he always shows his cards way to early...holds nothing back as he beginning demands are extreme...then instead of negotiating forward...he backs off and settles...
 
jazzeum said:
One thing that needs to be established is that he does not know how to negotiate. It’s a complete myth. I used to negotiate for a living and the mistakes he makes in negotiations — giving away points before he has to, for example — makes me shake my head. The NY real estate world is different than the political world and Iran is a different adversary than he’s used to bullying. Moreover, the people he uses for negotiations, Kushner and Witkoff are complete amateurs.
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No one has had any success negotiating with Iran. Not Carter, Obama, Clinton, Bush. They tried all the typical tactics. They all failed. Businessmen like Trump can be ruthless but they believe everyone has a common goal. Get the best deal possible and make a lot of money. Political negotiation is a different animal. Particularly when dealing with fanatics. Iran believes time is on their side. They will endure short term punishment, hold out, and count on the US to cave. They don't want a deal even if that is in their best interest. They don't care if their citizens die. They don't care if the country is blown to pieces. That limits the options to just giving up and hoping for the best like the Europeans or bringing down the hammer and accepting the consequences in terms of long-term pain for everyone with no guarantee of success. For all his tough talk, I think Trump finds an exit ramp, declares victory, and washes his hands of this conflict with the realization that Iran will eventually develop a nuclear weapon to terrorize future generations. He will have done what he could against all the political headwinds. All the naysayers will be left to find a solution to an Iranian regime with a nuclear weapon and willingness to use it.
 
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