US/Israel Launches Op Epic Fury Against Iran (1 Viewer)

[mikemiller1955]

My opinion on this is I don’t care what we supposedly owed them. Their consistent terroristic behavior would have voided that completely with justification. They never stopped their aggression and they probably will not until they are eradicated or a parking lot. This is not an easy off. I am fine if we let them linger for a bit wondering what we will do next. I think Trump should go dark and be non committal for a bit. Let’s see what happens then. Let them stick their neck out when they think the coast is clear and then we should cut it off. Sometimes the best negotiating position is to pause and be quiet
Tom

Tom...

honestly...it was not that "we supposedly owed them"...we did owe them...

we brokered a munitions deal...took their money...and never delivered...

and I might be mistaken on this...
but I think those assets (40 million) were maybe frozen in our possession for some period of time...causing the exorbitant interest tacked on...

and yes...you are 100% correct about their terroristic behavior...nobody can deny their funding to terrorist organizations...

but Trump has backed out of ultimatums of sending them "back to the stone age" 4 times already...

this is his 5th deadline on that threat...I don't know what kind of message of him "going dark" is going to send to them...

I just hope they can negotiate something both sides are happy with...

 

[mikemiller1955]

Here is my cousins reply to your post;

"You can tell whoever wrote that that we should've deducted $1.7BB in damages for them overrunning our embassy in 1979 and told them to go @#$% themselves.

Obama also delivered it literally in pallets of cash so they could fund terrorism, unmarked bills he gave them like he was negotiating with a kidnapper and it was some sort of ransom we paid them.

He gave some lame excuse about " arcane banking laws", he was totally in the tank for Iran."

So he does not view things quite the same way that you do; ironic as he's also Greek, I thought for sure he'd go along with your post.

He also thinks we should "turn Iran into a parking lot and wipe them off the face of the earth once and for all."

So there you have it.

I'm not viewing things my way...I'm just posting the facts...

A Few Good Men..."These are the facts and they are undisputed."

we took the money and ran...

 

[Combat]

Tom...

honestly...it was not that "we supposedly owed them"...we did owe them...

we brokered a munitions deal...took their money...and never delivered...

and I might be mistaken on this...
but I think those assets (40 million) were maybe frozen in our possession for some period of time...causing the exorbitant interest tacked on...

and yes...you are 100% correct about their terroristic behavior...nobody can deny their funding to terrorist organizations...

but Trump has backed out of ultimatums of sending them "back to the stone age" 4 times already...

this is his 5th deadline on that threat...I don't know what kind of message of him "going dark" is going to send to them...

I just hope they can negotiate something both sides are happy with...

You don't seriously believe that we had to make this payment. That's like agreeing to pay a kidnapper to return your child, and when they do claim that you are legally bound to pay them a ransom. Obama could have avoided doing this. He wanted to do it. Obama's world view involved the US and the west as an oppressor. He believed that the US had to make amends before Iran and other such countries would change their conduct. He was profoundly wrong. The US is not the bad actor. That's not to say the US has not made mistakes but Iran bears the responsibility for its conduct. All Iran has to do here is agree not to develop a nuclear weapon to use on Israel or the US and not enable terrorism. Not a high bar. Just act like civilized people instead of medieval warlords. They refuse to do that, however.

 

[mikemiller1955]

You don't seriously believe that we had to make this payment. That's like agreeing to pay a kidnapper to return your child, and when they do claim that you are legally bound to pay them a ransom. Obama could have avoided doing this. He wanted to do it. Obama's world view involved the US and the west as an oppressor. He believed that the US had to make amends before Iran and other such countries would change their conduct. He was profoundly wrong. The US is not the bad actor. That's not to say the US has not made mistakes but Iran bears the responsibility for its conduct. All Iran has to do here is agree not to develop a nuclear weapon to use on Israel or the US and not enable terrorism. Not a high bar. Just act like civilized people instead of medieval warlords. They refuse to do that, however.

all I can say is...

I pay my debts...

the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, formally known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA), negotiated under President Barack Obama,
included key restrictions on Iran’s nuclear program that were scheduled to last for 10 to 15 years...expiring in 2025 or 2030...

3 years later...in 2018...

Donald Trump sought to renegotiate the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA), commonly known as the Iran nuclear deal, before ultimately withdrawing the United States from it in May 2018.

We had a deal...Trump squashed it...

3 months ago on January 16, 2016, the International Atomic Energy Agency verified that Iran has completed the necessary steps under the Iran deal that will ensure Iran's nuclear program is and remains exclusively peaceful.​

 

[jazzeum]

Trump has threatened to destroy the Iranian civilization. If he follows through he will forever besmirch this country and join the ranks of the likes of Hitler and Stalin. While this country has never been always on the side of angels, we have never used our significant power to destroy a civilization. If he follows through on this the 25th Amendment needs to be invoked.

 

[Combat]

Trump has threatened to destroy the Iranian civilization. If he follows through he will forever besmirch this country and join the ranks of the likes of Hitler and Stalin. While this country has never been always on the side of angels, we have never used our significant power to destroy a civilization. If he follows through on this the 25th Amendment needs to be invoked.

What hyperbole. Trump always talks in absolutes. His intent, unlike that of the Iranian regime, is not to kill everyone in the country. He is actually trying to save the Iranian people who have been slaughtered by their own government. Comparing him to Hitler and Stalin is shameful. The Iranians are the ones who have made no secret of their desire to destroy Israel. They are currently targeting civilians in multiple countries. They killed as many as 40k of their own citizens. But Trump is the bad guy.

 

[Combat]

all I can say is...

I pay my debts...

the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, formally known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA), negotiated under President Barack Obama,
included key restrictions on Iran’s nuclear program that were scheduled to last for 10 to 15 years...expiring in 2025 or 2030...

3 years later...in 2018...

Donald Trump sought to renegotiate the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA), commonly known as the Iran nuclear deal, before ultimately withdrawing the United States from it in May 2018.

We had a deal...Trump squashed it...

3 months ago on January 16, 2016, the International Atomic Energy Agency verified that Iran has completed the necessary steps under the Iran deal that will ensure Iran's nuclear program is and remains exclusively peaceful.​

Are you saying it was a good idea to send Iran - whose public policy is to sponsor terrorism and destroy Israel and the US - $400 million? How did that work out? I don't follow the logic of this being a debt. They are a terrorist state. Would you feel bound to pay a kidnapper ransom?

 

[Combat]

"Hitler" just agreed to a two week suspension. That means it is never going to happen. Future generations will own Iran with a nuclear weapon and willingness to use it. Good luck with that.

 

[Horus]

"Hitler" just agreed to a two week suspension. That means it is never going to happen. Future generations will own Iran with a nuclear weapon and willingness to use it. Good luck with that.

With the power plants etc circled with civilians, whether by choice or by force, the optics wouldn't have been good after President Trump's speech which did give the impression of going far further than the expected strikes, had they gone ahead as expected against the Iranian regime.

USS Boxer and the other support ships will have arrived within the two weeks time frame, adding to the assembled naval force there with another couple of thousand Marines and the options that come with the by then assembled forces, will give the Iranians pause, however much they play the waiting game in the hope that Trump will be pressured into backing down, leaving the regime convinced of their own superiority and in their eyes being the will of their God and so encourage them to carry on exporting terrorism.

Also, with the huge amount of Tomahawk missles fired already, some ships will need replenishment and Diego Garcia being the nearest place for them to go to for rearming, a couple of weeks or so is needed for the round trip.
You never know the strait might be opened by that time by the Iranians. as the pause let's what's already happened sink in.
But I wouldn't hold my breath.
This is always assuming that the ceasefire is accepted. If not.....

 

[mikemiller1955]

Are you saying it was a good idea to send Iran - whose public policy is to sponsor terrorism and destroy Israel and the US - $400 million? How did that work out? I don't follow the logic of this being a debt. They are a terrorist state. Would you feel bound to pay a kidnapper ransom?

a debt is when you owe somebody something...they had a deal...the US didn't honor their part...
America took their $400 million...and withheld it from Iran for 36 years...

is it the timeframe that irks you...if they had paid the Iranian government back their $400 million 36 years ago would you still be mad...

this was settled in the Iran-United States Claims Tribunal in The Hague by 9 arbitrators...
good idea or not...it was fair...the USA agreed to the ruling...with massive interest costs on top of the $400 million...

if you don't think you should pay your debts...
well...I'll just say...
don't ask me to loan you any money...

 

[mikemiller1955]

"Hitler" just agreed to a two week suspension. That means it is never going to happen. Future generations will own Iran with a nuclear weapon and willingness to use it. Good luck with that.

Wow...lol...that now makes 5 times that Iran has survived being bombed back to the stone age by Trump...

reminds of the Aesop fable..."The Boy That Cried Wolf"...

no more threats of an end to Iranian civilization...

so now it's "never going to happen" as you say...like for real never...ever? I'm not sure...

Trump changes his mind every couple of days...who knows what's next...the World in economic crisis anxiously awaits his next plan...



but I'm glad he called it off...

all the recent talk of war crimes and possibly invoking the 25th Amendment or impeachment charges might have changed his mind...

I think he realizes he doesn't have the support he thought he had...

 

[Warrior]

all the recent talk of war crimes and possibly invoking the 25th Amendment or impeachment charges might have changed his mind...

Yeah, I'm sure that's what did it, he probably knows the old saying "three times is the charm"......when all else fails, just threaten him with impeachment/invoking the 25th amendment.

In other good news, some economist on FOX said IF this holds true and the strait gets reopened/a real deal can be reached, he thinks gas prices will fall back to where they were before the war started...............by the Fall.

So it took 6 weeks for the price to go up about 1.50 a gallon and it will take 6 months for it to fall.

Yeah; we're not getting screwed over by these companies or anything.

I wonder if USPS will call off their 8% rate hike due to go into effect on the 27th of this month; right, sure they will.

 

[jazzeum]

Yeah, I'm sure that's what did it, he probably knows the old saying "three times is the charm"......when all else fails, just threaten him with impeachment/invoking the 25th amendment.

In other good news, some economist on FOX said IF this holds true and the strait gets reopened/a real deal can be reached, he thinks gas prices will fall back to where they were before the war started...............by the Fall.

So it took 6 weeks for the price to go up about 1.50 a gallon and it will take 6 months for it to fall.

Yeah; we're not getting screwed over by these companies or anything.

I wonder if USPS will call off their 8% rate hike due to go into effect on the 27th of this month; right, sure they will.

The 2015 deal with the Iranians took a very long time to be negotiated. Nothing will be negotiated in two weeks time, especially if you have amateurs doing it. In addition, there appears to be no face to face negotiations taking place between the parties. If true, negotiations will take even longer. It’s pie in the sky to believe the opposite. Most economists also believe that it will be a long time before prices drop.

 

[jazzeum]

Wow...lol...that now makes 5 times that Iran has survived being bombed back to the stone age by Trump...

reminds of the Aesop fable..."The Boy That Cried Wolf"...

no more threats of an end to Iranian civilization...

so now it's "never going to happen" as you say...like for real never...ever? I'm not sure...

Trump changes his mind every couple of days...who knows what's next...the World in economic crisis anxiously awaits his next plan...



but I'm glad he called it off...

all the recent talk of war crimes and possibly invoking the 25th Amendment or impeachment charges might have changed his mind...

I think he realizes he doesn't have the support he thought he had...

You can’t keep making threats and then back off. He now has no credibility. Again, it’s amateurish negotiating. His threats may work with spineless US politicians but will not work with people as crazy as he is. In the Middle East neighborhood the one who is the craziest has the upper hand.

 

[mikemiller1955]

You can’t keep making threats and then back off. He now has no credibility. Again, it’s amateurish negotiating. His threats may work with spineless US politicians but will not work with people as crazy as he is. In the Middle East neighborhood the one who is the craziest has the upper hand.

Maybe that works in the USA in real estate, but it is not the Art of the Deal in Iran…

 

[Horus]

Wow...lol...that now makes 5 times that Iran has survived being bombed back to the stone age by Trump...

reminds of the Aesop fable..."The Boy That Cried Wolf"...

no more threats of an end to Iranian civilization...

so now it's "never going to happen" as you say...like for real never...ever? I'm not sure...

Trump changes his mind every couple of days...who knows what's next...the World in economic crisis anxiously awaits his next plan...



but I'm glad he called it off...

all the recent talk of war crimes and possibly invoking the 25th Amendment or impeachment charges might have changed his mind...

I think he realizes he doesn't have the support he thought he had...

Mike. President Trump isn't the only one making wild threats and then backing off, this is exactly the same behaviour as the Iran regime have been using for years !

 

[jazzeum]

Mike. President Trump isn't the only one making wild threats and then backing off, this is exactly the same behaviour as the Iran regime have been using for years !

Yes, but I’d like to think there is a difference between the US and a repressive regime like Iran.

 

[Warrior]

Wow...lol...that now makes 5 times that Iran has survived being bombed back to the stone age by Trump...

reminds of the Aesop fable..."The Boy That Cried Wolf"...

no more threats of an end to Iranian civilization...

so now it's "never going to happen" as you say...like for real never...ever? I'm not sure...

Trump changes his mind every couple of days...who knows what's next...the World in economic crisis anxiously awaits his next plan...



but I'm glad he called it off...

all the recent talk of war crimes and possibly invoking the 25th Amendment or impeachment charges might have changed his mind...

I think he realizes he doesn't have the support he thought he had...

The reports on both CNN and FOX indicate that Iran had a list of 10 requests/concessions and Trump indicated it was a good starting point for negotiations, so he called off the strikes, not sure what you wanted him to do, go ahead with them anyway to prove he was serious?

THEY CAME TO HIM, so he called off the attack, it had nothing to do with the 25th amendment or impeachment or him realizing he doesn't have the support he thought he did.

 

[Warrior]

You can’t keep making threats and then back off. He now has no credibility. Again, it’s amateurish negotiating. His threats may work with spineless US politicians but will not work with people as crazy as he is. In the Middle East neighborhood the one who is the craziest has the upper hand.

AGAIN; the reports on both CNN and FOX indicate that Iran had a list of 10 requests/concessions and Trump indicated it was a good starting point for negotiations, so he called off the strikes, not sure what you wanted him to do, go ahead with them anyway to prove he was serious?

THEY CAME TO HIM, so he called off the attack, it had nothing to do with the 25th amendment or impeachment or him realizing he doesn't have the support he thought he did.

Amateurish negotiating?

No clue what you are on about; didn't know you could call in a professional negotiator for such things.

I do know you hate Trump with fire of 10,000 suns, that's for sure.

 

[jazzeum]

AGAIN; the reports on both CNN and FOX indicate that Iran had a list of 10 requests/concessions and Trump indicated it was a good starting point for negotiations, so he called off the strikes, not sure what you wanted him to do, go ahead with them anyway to prove he was serious?

THEY CAME TO HIM, so he called off the attack, it had nothing to do with the 25th amendment or impeachment or him realizing he doesn't have the support he thought he did.

Amateurish negotiating?

No clue what you are on about; didn't know you could call in a professional negotiator for such things.

I do know you hate Trump with fire of 10,000 suns, that's for sure.

It is never a good negotiating tactic to threaten and then back off. He doesn’t know how to negotiate as I’ve delineated earlier. The employees at the State Department are trained in how to negotiate, his son in law isn’t. These are complicated matters. The problem is that he’s probably fired most of them and anyone with expertise in these matters.

Contrary to what you may think the cease fire was brokered after Pakistan with Chinese assistance convinced each side to stand down for two weeks with Iran, under certain conditions, opening up the Straits. You listen to Fox so that’s the slant you will get.

While it is great that he did not follow through with his demands, what has been accomplished so far? Virtually nothing. The regime is still in place and they still have Uranium. Everyone comes out the loser.