I like K & C but sometimes!!!!!! (1 Viewer)

[Louis Badolato]

I give KC a lot of credit for doing so many different lines and products. They have to do a lot of research to get even close. I'm sure there are tons of detail errors that few of us are qualified to even notice or care about. However, they do occasionally make some real lulus that make you wonder. The non-existant Rammjager, Heydrich car, and Hitler reading a WWI map written in English come to mind.

They compound these errors by never explaining or correcting any royal snafu. And instead of viewing comments here as constructive any response is along the line "don't buy it if you don't like" or start your own company. I can understand the sensitivity to investing blood, sweat and tears into this business and then having people complain, but that is not really a customer friendly attitude. When you are in business one of the things you deal with is people complaining - particulary if you screw up. Imagine if Toyota told customers to start their own company if they don't like the defects in their cars.

I don't know if you have ever met Andy in person, or spoken to him on the phone, but I think you may have gotten the wrong impression of him from some of the threads on this forum. I have known Andy for well over ten years, and consider him and his brother Gordon to be good friends. I can tell you that over the years they have always made themselves available to collectors via telephone, e-mail, and in person at the various shows, symposia, and get togethers they attend in the United States (OTSN, Westcoaster, NY Symposium), Great Britain (the London Shows), Europe (Open Houses at Toy Soldier Paris, the German Toy Show) and in Australia last summer.

They have listened to and addressed literally thousands of suggestions, praises and complaints from every collector who chose to take the time to speak with them. They have acted on suggestions (although they ignored my suggestion that they stop making polystone vehicles and return to expensive wood and metal vehicles ) made changes, improvements, and, when they did not wish to or could not act on a suggestion or make a change, explained why.

Occasionally, Andy, who hears complaints and suggestions pretty much every day, gets tired of it and snaps back "if you don't like it start your own company and do it your way," but that is the exception, not the rule. Andy has made literally thousands of figures, vehicles, aircraft, buildings and dioramas over the past 25 and 1/2 years, and I see folks on this forum jump on him for 5-6 mistakes. That's really not that bad a batting average, considering.

If you want to have a discussion with Andy about a problem you have with a K&C product, or a suggestion for an improvement, change, etc., try sending him an e-mail, or, better yet, speaking to him in person at one of his many appearances. He is charismatic, funny, gregarious and intelligent. You will get a more satifying answer, and, more probably then not, will see him buying more of the many reference books that he purchases at every toy soldier event I have ever seen him attending.

 

[Peiper007]

Great pictures of the Elefant, looks a lot better than when I last saw it,

 

[Peiper007]

Hello Guys

Too many people have seen this thread as too much of a complaint, in the end we [especially me] moan about the sets but I still but them, I bought the Elefant but have it a single stand alone tank Destroyer and have not put it in with my BotB range. K & C are excellent but sometimes!!!!!!!!!!, To compare if you were married to a Super Model who owned a Pub and could cook you would still complain if she did something wrong!! Maybe we expect too much, but the Hitler and the map has never occured to me, one thing i do agree with is that the management at K & C are not open to criticism.

Anyway a real complaint, I am travelling by train from London, for a return journey of 53 minutes I am paying £120 [$196 US]. Now that is a rip off.

 

[Rob]

Hello Guys

Too many people have seen this thread as too much of a complaint, in the end we [especially me] moan about the sets but I still but them, I bought the Elefant but have it a single stand alone tank Destroyer and have not put it in with my BotB range. K & C are excellent but sometimes!!!!!!!!!!, To compare if you were married to a Super Model who owned a Pub and could cook you would still complain if she did something wrong!! Maybe we expect too much, but the Hitler and the map has never occured to me, one thing i do agree with is that the management at K & C are not open to criticism.

Anyway a real complaint, I am travelling by train from London, for a return journey of 53 minutes I am paying £120 [$196 US]. Now that is a rip off.

£120! That is an outrage,nothing less than an outrage.You could get another Elefant for that price!!

Rob

 

[Wraith]

£120! That is an outrage,nothing less than an outrage.You could get another Elefant for that price!!

Rob

Hmmm....haven't got room left in the fridge for another Elefant, with the butter taking up all that room.....

 

[Blowtorch]

Since this has turned into an Elephant thread...

if you are into German armor then this vehicle does have a special spot in your collection because it can be argued to be the toughest AFV Germany produced during the war.

Soviets did penetration tests on Tiger, Elephant, Panther, and King Tiger, and Elephant was the only one that couldn't be frontally penetrated by any projectile at any range, even point blank

 

[Peiper007]

Hi

Agree about the Elefant being special, but whatabout the Jadgpanther [Hunting Tiger], outstanding and with an 128mm gun. what a great vehicle for K & C to make.

I have also not found a record of one of these vehicles being destroyed?

My feel over WW 2 german armour is that the best were the Panthers and Tiger 1, plus the old faithfull Panzer IV and the Stugs etc. When it comes to the Tiger 2, Hunting tiger, Elefant and the Maus they were just a waste of fuel as they had the same engines, gear boxes and suspension.

I have a large number of pictures from the German, French, American [Aberdeen] and last but never least Bovington England, which is the best tank muesum in the world, it has two tiger 2's one with each turrent, a swimming D-Day tank, a Sherman minesweeper and about 25 WW1 tanks.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Hi

Agree about the Elefant being special, but whatabout the Jadgpanther [Hunting Tiger], outstanding and with an 128mm gun. what a great vehicle for K & C to make.

I have also not found a record of one of these vehicles being destroyed?

My feel over WW 2 german armour is that the best were the Panthers and Tiger 1, plus the old faithfull Panzer IV and the Stugs etc. When it comes to the Tiger 2, Hunting tiger, Elefant and the Maus they were just a waste of fuel as they had the same engines, gear boxes and suspension.

I have a large number of pictures from the German, French, American [Aberdeen] and last but never least Bovington England, which is the best tank muesum in the world, it has two tiger 2's one with each turrent, a swimming D-Day tank, a Sherman minesweeper and about 25 WW1 tanks.

The Jagdtiger had the 128 mm gun on a Tiger II chassis. Only 75 were built and fought in only two heavy antitank battalions Schwere Panzerjäger-Abteilung 512 and 653. They entered combat in September 1944. About 20% were destroyed in combat and most of the rest were destroyed/abandoned by the crews when they broke down or ran out of fuel.

One was destroyed by 6 Shermans with their 75mm guns from 1,000 metres. The 75 mm guns peppered the frontal armour of the Jagdtiger but couldn't penetrate. Instead of firing back or backing away, the Jagdtiger turned away and was penetrated in the side armour with the ammo and Jagdtiger blowing up.

It would be a good vehicle for K&C to make and it did fight on the Western Front.

Terry

 

[forlornhoper]

Dont have a K&C Elefant,but have seen one in the flesh and it looked good,i didnt check the unit insignia,but it did have all the attributes of an Elefant and it was enormous.I have a Ferdinand and an Elefant in 1.35th scale,so i held off buying the K&C version for something i didnt have in my collection. I have been a collector of fine scale models for 10 years and in my experience,all modellers have differing opinions on all things and even the rivet counters get it wrong.I for one dont profess to be all knowing so my rule of thumb is usually "if it looks right,buy it", "if it doesnt or you are not too sure,research it further before making a decision to buy" that said K&C are not and never will be Fine Scale Models but they are great value for money and their figures are fantastic.

 

[Peiper007]

Terry

Have you seen the Panzerwreck series of books, they are outstanding and a lot on the Hunting Tiger.

Terry[/QUOTE]

 

[lancer]

The Jagdtiger had the 128 mm gun on a Tiger II chassis. Only 75 were built and fought in only two heavy antitank battalions Schwere Panzerjäger-Abteilung 512 and 653. They entered combat in September 1944. About 20% were destroyed in combat and most of the rest were destroyed/abandoned by the crews when they broke down or ran out of fuel.

One was destroyed by 6 Shermans with their 75mm guns from 1,000 metres. The 75 mm guns peppered the frontal armour of the Jagdtiger but couldn't penetrate. Instead of firing back or backing away, the Jagdtiger turned away and was penetrated in the side armour with the ammo and Jagdtiger blowing up.

It would be a good vehicle for K&C to make and it did fight on the Western Front.

Terry

This would be a great vehicle to do. It would be a very impressive size in 1/30. Would look good in ambush color scheme, if historically correct, of course. -- lancer

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Terry

Have you seen the Panzerwreck series of books, they are outstanding and a lot on the Hunting Tiger.

Terry

[/QUOTE]

Thanks. I had not heard of them. I took a look and it seems they come out every month. Do you get them?

I just started getting the Panzer Tracts which have less photos but detailed drawings and detailed specifications on the AFVs.

Terry

 

[Phantom Warrior]

This would be a great vehicle to do. It would be a very impressive size in 1/30. Would look good in ambush color scheme, if historically correct, of course. -- lancer

It's huge. It is on a "lengthened" Tiger II chassis with a huge box to hold a very long 128 mm gun. It would probably take up an entire display shelf of mine. At 1/30 scale it would be 14 inches long vs 10.5 inches for the K&C Elefant.

The first ones were assigned to s.Pz.Jäg.Abt.653 in Poland but were soon shipped by rail to the Ardennes for the Battle of the Bulge - but they didn't get there in time for the battle. s.Pz.Jäg.Abt.512 also fought against the Allies on the Western Front. I don't think any fought on the Eastern Front unless they saw some action in Poland.

I think they were painted in the Ambush Camo with the first ones having zimmerit and the later ones not.

Terry

 

[HAWKEYE]

Peiper i have been talked down on this reccomendation by andy himself. No jagdtigers or normandy falschirmjager, let somebody else to them is basically what i was told. I was disappointed to say the least and still bear the scars from that dinner in chicago. My problem is that i want kc to do them and not another company because kc is the best. So i will have to wait to see if there is a shift in decision making . Hey maybe we can get our own tea party going for support for these items.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Peiper i have been talked down on this reccomendation by andy himself. No jagdtigers or normandy falschirmjager, let somebody else to them is basically what i was told. I was disappointed to say the least and still bear the scars from that dinner in chicago. My problem is that i want kc to do them and not another company because kc is the best. So i will have to wait to see if there is a shift in decision making . Hey maybe we can get our own tea party going for support for these items.

I'm surprised he said no Jagdtigers Maybe they are just too big and heavy to make at a reasonable price.

Terry

 

[Peiper007]

Panzerwrecks - Lee Archer

The books tend to come out every 6 months and when they first started they had up to 3 pages per tank, but they changed after a bout 4 and moved onto either location - Normandy, Italy etc. Or they after the first few went on to finding whole series of pictures on specific tanks, for example Number 3 is an excellent one for the Hunting Tiger, there is a destroyed on on the front, with 29 pages on the surrender of the remnants of 1./sPzJgAbt 512 on April 16 2010. Amazon generally do a good deal on the books, I have up to number 8, but I think there are 9.

Another series to look at is the Concord series, they are very good and cover a lot of Panzers, there are 2 call Panzers in Gunsights that are very good and 2 on the battle of the bulge, 1 US Army Funnies, plus others.


I have a few pictures iof the Hunting Tiger at Bovington but too big to upload.

The two other SP I would like are the Brumbar [Bumblebee] and the Strum Tiger, there is an excellent clip of a Strum Tiger on You Tube firing in Warsaw, you can see the shell leaving the gund and exploding against a building.


Am looking at visiting the Chicago show, I go to the London 3 times a year.

 

[lancer]

Peiper i have been talked down on this reccomendation by andy himself. No jagdtigers or normandy falschirmjager, let somebody else to them is basically what i was told. I was disappointed to say the least and still bear the scars from that dinner in chicago. My problem is that i want kc to do them and not another company because kc is the best. So i will have to wait to see if there is a shift in decision making . Hey maybe we can get our own tea party going for support for these items.

Interesting. I know Andy makes what Andy likes, but I find the refusal to consider the Jagdtiger puzzling. From past discussions on this forum there is obviously a wide interest in the Jagdtiger. I would certainly HAVE to find the money if KC produced the JT. The Normandy FJ's have been picked up by TGunn. Maybe CS will grab the JT. IMO KC is missing a good deal with the JT. Who knows though, perhaps Andy knows something we don't about producing the JT, as in size, cost, material? -- lancer

 

[Peiper007]

Cheers

The two other SP I would like are the Brumbar [Bumblebee] and the Strum Tiger, plus some better antiaircraft mounted guns, possibly a whirlwind. I think there are so many, a winter panzer 4 would be good as well.

There is an excellent clip of a Strum Tiger on You Tube firing in Warsaw, you can see the shell leaving the gund and exploding against a building.

 

[Panzer ace]

I give KC a lot of credit for doing so many different lines and products. They have to do a lot of research to get even close. I'm sure there are tons of detail errors that few of us are qualified to even notice or care about. However, they do occasionally make some real lulus that make you wonder. The non-existant Rammjager, Heydrich car, and Hitler reading a WWI map written in English come to mind.

They compound these errors by never explaining or correcting any royal snafu. And instead of viewing comments here as constructive any response is along the line "don't buy it if you don't like" or start your own company. I can understand the sensitivity to investing blood, sweat and tears into this business and then having people complain, but that is not really a customer friendly attitude. When you are in business one of the things you deal with is people complaining - particulary if you screw up. Imagine if Toyota told customers to start their own company if they don't like the defects in their cars.

I have really enjoyed reading this thread and for the most part I agree with everyone’s points. The only one I disagree with is the comparison to Toyota. I am pretty sure none of the defects in K&C’s Elefant are going to cause serious injury or death, unlike Toyota’s recent problems.

 

[jazzeum]

To err is human, to forgive divine.