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Combat said:
The US did make substantial contributions to ending the war, but the Chinese bore the heaviest burden of the asian/pacific campaign which began long before pearl harbor. 10 million total Chinese deaths. Approximately 25% of the total allied military deaths in WWII were Chinese soldiers. By comparison the US percentage of total allied military deaths (asia and europe) in WWII was 2% (trailing Yugoslavia at 3%).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

The US provided a large amount of equipment, arms and other supplies but much of that was provided to Britain, Russia, and Asia prior to and in lieu of direct US military involvement. Probably a good tradeoff for us. The notion that we saved anyone with our belated intervention is somewhat naive and I assume insulting to the many other countries that suffered to such a greater extent than we did.
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That is THE most naive and insulting staement I've ever heard, to say the US didn't save anyone by it's involvement in WWII, belated or not, with it's industrial capacity, technology and manpower is nonsense. We were very fortunate not to suffer great civilian loss as others did, but too belittle our military contribution is inexcusable. So quote all the wikipedia facts and figures you want, I'll stick my own opinion.

Fred
 
jazzeum said:
The Chinese had been fighting against the Japanse since 1936 (approximately). 10,000,000 doesn't sound exaggerated and it sure isn't politically correct and if that doesn't work for you how about in excess of 20 million Russian deaths?
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Hey Brad

Calm Down - your last email was a little cutting and not friendly.

Most of the emails here have been in a good nature and a little in the field of screwing around. I have only been on this forum for a couple of weeks and certainly have not tried to put anyone down personally. Your tone gives that impression.

You know we all have opinions and just because one opinion doesnt matches yours doesnt mean it was wrong, incorrect or certainly not in need of being treated rude.

If you want to have an internationalist view of World War II - go right ahead. But, let me assure you there were plenty of Americans who gave up there lives for the cause of Freedom and without the USA - that War certainly could have been lost. I happen to believe what we did in the War saved MILLIONS of lives with our technology, materials and know-how.

Wars aren't judged on just numbers of losses - there are many other factors that go into it. The Americans did more than their part in preserving Democracy in the World. Just because other Nations have forgotten our contribution to their freedom that they take for granted today - doesnt mean it didn't happen.

So lighten up. Remember, everyone has the right to be wrong. :)
 
My Top Five Would Be A Js-152, Mark Iv Normandy, Puma, Maultier And An Opel Blitz Radio Truck Or A Cromwell
 
Capitolron said:
Hey Brad

Calm Down - your last email was a little cutting and not friendly.

Most of the emails here have been in a good nature and a little in the field of screwing around. I have only been on this forum for a couple of weeks and certainly have not tried to put anyone down personally. Your tone gives that impression.

You know we all have opinions and just because one opinion doesnt matches yours doesnt mean it was wrong, incorrect or certainly not in need of being treated rude.

If you want to have an internationalist view of World War II - go right ahead. But, let me assure you there were plenty of Americans who gave up there lives for the cause of Freedom and without the USA - that War certainly could have been lost. I happen to believe what we did in the War saved MILLIONS of lives with our technology, materials and know-how.

Wars aren't judged on just numbers of losses - there are many other factors that go into it. The Americans did more than their part in preserving Democracy in the World. Just because other Nations have forgotten our contribution to their freedom that they take for granted today - doesnt mean it didn't happen.

So lighten up. Remember, everyone has the right to be wrong. :)
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Ron,

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm not trying to suppress you but I think you need to take a less American-centric view of World War II and take into account that we did make a substantial contribution but not the only one.

The amount of deaths and injuries suffered by the Americans pale in comparison to the sacrifice by the Russians and their contribution is overlooked. The contributions made by the American obviously hastened the end of the war but I'm also convinced that if the Russians and the British had to go it alone in Europe, eventually (just because of the sheer numbers that the Russians would have thrown against the Germans) they would have prevailed.

I do have an internationalist background because I lived overseas as a child but you have to remember this was a "World" war, involving many nations, not just the United States. Even D Day was a multinational effort.
 
boot51 said:
That is THE most naive and insulting staement I've ever heard, to say the US didn't save anyone by it's involvement in WWII, belated or not, with it's industrial capacity, technology and manpower is nonsense. We were very fortunate not to suffer great civilian loss as others did, but too belittle our military contribution is inexcusable. So quote all the wikipedia facts and figures you want, I'll stick my own opinion.

Fred
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Fred-You got it backwards. I'm just responding to those that have belittled the contributions of others. As I said, the US provided a substantial contribution to the war effort. But facts are facts. Even if they are contrary to preconceived ideas.
 
jazzeum said:
The Chinese had been fighting against the Japanse since 1936 (approximately). 10,000,000 doesn't sound exaggerated and it sure isn't politically correct and if that doesn't work for you how about in excess of 20 million Russian deaths?
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The object of war is not to die, its to kill the other guy. Losing millions of

people is not an accomplishment its a tragedy. You can give anyone else the

credit you want but once the United States entered WWII the situation

changed. Once the bombs were dropped on Japan it ended.

You have to admire the courage of President Truman.

Njja
 
Capitolron said:
No problem - just jiving you. :) :D

Hey Combat

What do you collect?
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I'm stuck on defending our euro friends. Where are those guys anyway? In the last couple of years I've collected mostly KC and Honour Bound WWII. My real preference though are the russian made Aeroart figures (promise that I am not a commie). A boat load of Romans, Napoleonics, Civil War, and a few WWI among others.
 
Combat:

Youre no commie and we know it. :)

I like Aero art - great stuff. What in the K&C is your favorite??

Are you ready to join the Napoleonic Revolution in the K&C World - all we want is more, more , more :D
 
Combat,can i ust refer to an earlier post of yours about some people being insulted by the suggestion that the U.S saved everyone.I have to wholeheartedly agree with you.

Let me first set out my position.I am very fond of America fullstop.I have very dear family in Arizona and California and have visited several times.I am also as a amateur historian very well aware of the huge effort and sacrafice that the U.S made in WW2,and that it surely at the very least ended the war much quicker than it would have.

However(!)As a tour guide i am constantly amazed and insulted at the amount of American visitors who come to the museum and who ACTUALLY believe that their participation in D-day saved my country from German invasion.They really,really have never heard of the Battle of Britain.Of the sacrafice of my young countrymen who took to the skies and gave their lives defending us.This really is insulting and ignorant.It is also perpetuated in U.S tv/ film industry with the phrase "we saved you" in everything from Friends to Sabrina the teenage witch!.This seems to be endemic in the industry and also leads to pointless insults in films such as "Saving private Ryan".

My countrymen are also not blameless in this respect with the tired old insult about America being two years late etc.The fact of the matter is that we all need to look at the facts and learn the truth.I have said all along that we should celebrate countrys from across the world coming together to defeat evil.

Rob
 
Blimey!!!!!! This must be the right room for an argument......:rolleyes: Just to throw incendiaries on the fire......:D

The war in Europe would have been won by the Russians on their own in 1945 or 46 at the very latest. Irrespective of any Normandy invasion. (I wonder where they would have stopped?)

The Chinese tied up most of the Japanese army but so what in terms of outcome? - the Pacific war was won by the US submarines, navy, marines (army as well) and air force destroying the Japanese capacity to fight and ship material to and from their island.

As for Britain, we lost the war by every objective criteria.

If we had have been defeated in 1940, where would the US have been in terms of its own self interest - if Nazi Germany ruled Europe in 1940 or the Soviet Russians in 1945 or 1946?

And does anyone care?:confused: Should they?:rolleyes:
 
Rob said:
Combat,can i ust refer to an earlier post of yours about some people being insulted by the suggestion that the U.S saved everyone.I have to wholeheartedly agree with you.

Let me first set out my position.I am very fond of America fullstop.I have very dear family in Arizona and California and have visited several times.I am also as a amateur historian very well aware of the huge effort and sacrafice that the U.S made in WW2,and that it surely at the very least ended the war much quicker than it would have.

However(!)As a tour guide i am constantly amazed and insulted at the amount of American visitors who come to the museum and who ACTUALLY believe that their participation in D-day saved my country from German invasion.They really,really have never heard of the Battle of Britain.Of the sacrafice of my young countrymen who took to the skies and gave their lives defending us.This really is insulting and ignorant.It is also perpetuated in U.S tv/ film industry with the phrase "we saved you" in everything from Friends to Sabrina the teenage witch!.This seems to be endemic in the industry and also leads to pointless insults in films such as "Saving private Ryan".

My countrymen are also not blameless in this respect with the tired old insult about America being two years late etc.The fact of the matter is that we all need to look at the facts and learn the truth.I have said all along that we should celebrate countrys from across the world coming together to defeat evil.

Rob
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Rob you are a brave man for entering this fray, all I can say
is it wasnt called world war 2 for nothing.Many countrys
contributed and for any one to claim they saved the day doesnt
quite sit right.[i,m not saying the US did this]

Their is no doubt the US played a huge role
through its industrlial might and man power.Hell if it wasnt for the US
the japs would have steamrolled the pacific including us.

But many countrys including Canada,Australia and the commonwealth
stepped up to the plate earlier in the piece so that shouldnt be
forgotten either.
 
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vandilay said:
Rob you are a brave man for entering this fray, all i can say
is it wasnt called world war 2 for nothing.Many countrys
contributed and for any one to claim they saved the day doesnt
quite sit right.Their is no doubt the US played a large role
through its industrlial might and man power.Hell if it wasnt for the US
the japs would have steamrolled the pacific including us.
But many countrys including canada,Australia and the commonwealth
stepped up to the plate earlier inthe piece so that shouldnt be
forgotten.
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Vandilay

Have we not discussed on an earlier thread the disproportionate contribution, in blood and material, of countries such as New Zealand?
 
panda1gen said:
Vandilay

Have we not discussed on an earlier thread the disproportionate contribution, in blood and material, of countries such as New Zealand?
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Hi panda1gen

I,m from a small country so weve got small mans syndrome :D
As long as we win the 2007 rugby world cup in france all will
be right with the world.If we dont their will be a national day of
mourning.We are getting used to it by now as its been a long time between drinks;)
 
vandilay said:
Hi panda1gen

I,m from a small country so weve got small mans syndrome :D
As long as we win the 2007 rugby world cup in france all will
be right with the world.If we dont their will be a national day of
mourning.We are getting used to it by now as its been a long time between drinks;)
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Looking at you're rugby team you are the last people I would call small men - especially to their face - LOL :D :D

Mind you, I did some work with american footballers some years ago, they are really big guys!!!!!!!
 
Combat said:
Fred-You got it backwards. I'm just responding to those that have belittled the contributions of others. As I said, the US provided a substantial contribution to the war effort. But facts are facts. Even if they are contrary to preconceived ideas.
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Doug, I'm with you up that last sentence. I am not so history ignorant that I have any silly "preconceived idea" that the US was the only particitant in WWII that fought against the Axis. But satements like " to think the US's belated entrance in to the war saved anyone" is an idea that is totally naive. The fact is the day the US declared war the fate of millions was secured, the war would have gone on for who knows how many more years with millions more deaths if we had sat on the sidelines.

And yes, Brad it is quite possible that Russia could have defeated the Germans without our involvement in Europe and MAYBE even without all the material we supplied them, but then you would have had an entire Europe under communist rule for next 45 years or so, wouldn't that have been wonderful, just ask the people of eastern Europe.:rolleyes: I doubt you would have spent much time in Europe under those circumstances, keep in mind Stalin was second to none when came to murdering people, especially his own. I have no misconception of the US winning the war all by itself, but don't tell me that the outcome would be anything but an extremely unpleasant one for the entire world without it's significant contribution, 2% of the casaulities or not!

Fred
 
panda1gen said:
Looking at you're rugby team you are the last people I would call small men - especially to their face - LOL :D :D

Mind you, I did some work with american footballers some years ago, they are really big guys!!!!!!!
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Its ok to call them small just make sure their are no hand bags near by
and youve got a good head start :D .
 
I think its all about getting it all in perspective and studying the actual facts.My previous post in no way at all denergrates the huge effort America made in WW2,i'm just saying that America on its own did not win WW2 and neither did Britain,France Malta or anywhere else.It was a wonderful alliance of nations who kicked Hitlers arse back to Berlin.

And i did not mean to imply that American people are the only ones guilty of this .As i said before the Monty insult in Saving Private ryan really annoyed me and i thought this was petty,however the film as a whole was superb.However there were people in this country who were jumping up and down saying "Where were the Brits in the film". FOR GODS SAKE PEOPLE, WE WEREN'T EVEN ON OMAHA BEACH!!.You don't hear people in the U.S Saying "oh i loved that Zulu film,but where were the 7th cavalry"!.

No,all this discussion about who did what and who didn't doesn't mean a thing.The good nations of the world came together for a purpose and we should celebrate that.

Rob
 
vandilay said:
Its ok to call them small just make sure their are no hand bags near by
and youve got a good head start :D .
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Bet I couldn't out run them either.......:D Mind you, would you like to describe the All Blacks rugby players' handbags in a little more detail...LOL :D
 
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