Eichmann (1 Viewer)

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Combat

Brigadier General
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I know there are some folks who are opposed to collecting Nazi personality figures, but I wonder if even those who do collect them would object to an Eichmann figure because of his close association with the Holocaust? It would be interesting to know if Eichmann is someone that Andy would not do or if he considers any historical personality fair game. I'm not suggesting it or offering an opinion, just posing the question.
 
Absolutely Why not? I would buy a figure depicting him. Hitler, Goering Himmler, Bormann, Heydrich especially Heydrich have all been released and, were the true architects (especially Heydrich) of the death camps. I don't recall anyone saying its offensive to have these figures out because of a causal link to the death camps.

Eichmann was another pen pusher who did whatever he was asked to do in a regime where many took pride in doing whatever they had to do with absolute efficiancy.

If we release and collect the above figures and added to that we can have Goeballs, then surely those who wish not to see these figures should also not wish to see Polizie representations for their huge role in the collection and rounding up of the so called ''untermensch'' any of the SS divisions especially, the totenkopf and most of the Heer divisions.

I think this will end up mirroing the debate recently had about the SA figures K&C released. Its for me, simple the early pre war era is very interesting and dramatic and epitomised by the mass parades of the third reich (both SS and SA) and, so, I collect these ranges.

I collect for enjoyment and asthetic appeal not, to go into the full history about who did what to whom. Those who wish to segregate what horrors were committed by certain people or units are always on thin ice IMO.

The hobby, we find ourselves in, covers a era when nasty things happened to lots of people and when the moral issues come out I cannot understand how it can be morally reprehensible to collect parade figures but morally acceptable to collect LAH and have displayed on tanks etc the nazi flag. I also cannot see how those who dipise the nazi's so much can then with ease buy Russian or japanese sets. I know, some say they set up with allied troops beating the germans in combat and, if thats what you like then fine but, a few of the more outspoken cannot for me, use this as the whole regime clearly appauls them so much how they can have anything connected to the germans in their homes is remarkable to me.

If you really come from an allegedly moral high ground in relation to some of the figures released then you would collect no side as everyone did appalling things to combatants and civillians alike all under the banner of ''war'' I just accept that even the english, did things which do not come under our finest hour.

So yes I would collect a Eichmann a gestapo mueller and anything else from the Berlin 38 range which I feel would suit my collection. Now, quick, someone contact the mods to tell them another iffy thread may have started!!!!!
Mitch
 
'The hobby, we find ourselves in, covers a era when nasty things happened to lots of people and when the moral issues come out I cannot understand how it can be morally reprehensible to collect parade figures but morally acceptable to collect LAH and have displayed on tanks etc the nazi flag. I also cannot see how those who dipise the nazi's so much can then with ease buy Russian or japanese sets. I know, some say they set up with allied troops beating the germans in combat and, if thats what you like then fine but, a few of the more outspoken cannot for me, use this as the whole regime clearly appauls them so much how they can have anything connected to the germans in their homes is remarkable to me'.


I make the distinction quite easily. As a History enthusiast I can differentiate between the average German soldier who was fighting for his country and doing his duty however misguided he may have been, and a high ranking member of the Nazi elite whose main preoccupation was the eliminating swathes of people he and his boss decided no longer had the right to live. We know that a spark of humanity existed in many German officers and men who had pride in their military History and traditions and wanted nothing to do with the atrocities carried out by Heydrich,Himmler and the rest of the low life's that circled the odious man with the moustache.

Also there is a happy celebration in the displaying of their figures in that WE won and THEY LOST!. Thats why I created my ME109 dio, there it is, the pride of the Luftwaffe, shot down in an English field covered in dirt and the pilot heading off to captivity. My German Normandy figures for instance are a mere representation of the futile attempt to stand in the way of the Greatest invasion in History. We can all argue the facts time and again but it comes to this, when someone sees one of my German Tanks they will say, hey nice Tank, but if I displayed Heydrich,Himmler and co most of my family and friends would think it a little creepy to be honest.

As a final word from me on this, I have no problem with anyone collecting absolutely what they want, thats the joy of freedom, and this is most definitely nothing to do with the collecting of the LAH range (I have many friends who collect this and good luck to them I say:cool:)I only posted this because Mitch has suggested anyone who makes a distinction is wrong, and I don't agree with that.:)

Rob
 
Hi Treefroggers,

Re a figure of Eichmann… K&C has no interest in producing a figure of him.

Sincerely,
Gordon C. Neilson
 
Thanks for posting Gordon, looking forward to what you may have created for the Westcoaster, best wishes

Rob
 
Rob...

The distinction has been made by others and, as I said the last time when you took acception to my posting this it was not per se aimed at you. My post did differentiate between those who collect and have stated such comments and, those who just abhore anything SS/SA in parade type depiction and state they should be banned.

It was aimed at those persons who scream the most about the abhorence of these figures and what they represent yet, find it acceptable to have units accepted to have participated in massacres and the rounding up for the death camps in their homes. For me, its a tricky area when you preach they should not be released in one breath but, somehow, a change of apparal allows ones abhorence to subside.

I don't recall you ever saying they should not be released so, my comments are not aimed at you. One point, the averaged german soldier, was involved hugely in the outcome of the ideals wished for by the masters. Its arguable that without the ''ordinary german soldier'' the amount of deaths would have been significantly lower as even the SS alone could not have organised such acts.

As I said when I collect I collect for a release from the grind and not to be told my choosen collection should be banned or not released everytime they appear from sections who find it acceptable to have those very units displayed in their collections. Its a very tricky area and, having looked at how some display their german collections I don't see the correlation to them being beaten in open battle by allies. they are usually just displayed in shelves or cabinets aside each other.

My point is that abhorence to the nazi machine by sections should be absolute not partial. If I held such strong views about the regime then I would find it difficult to justify having anything to do with them in the house.

I suppose, that its acceptable to bring real life into play with parade figures but, not when they are combat uniformed releases. I appreciate the history enthusiast comment as we all are in one way or another and some will wish to be enthused about different sections of history.

I find many nations actions repugnant in WWII yet when they are released I don't scream atrocity and that they should not be released or that they somehow oppress certain sections etc etc and, it should be the same for LAH IMO. I accept that this is a hobby portraying era's when things were done that should not but, I don't look at a T-34 or JS1 and think about how the russian tankers pivoted their vehicles on top of bunkers crushing the germans beneath I just think they look nice and strengthen the hobby and its portrayal of history.
Mitch
 
It was something I had in my mind how would you portray Eichmann? He was invisible until after the war and hard to portray unless at Wannse or, in his bullet proof dock at trial. So, probably not commercial enough for K&C. Anyone else wonder where Andy is these days Hope he is well????
Mitch

King & Country said:
Hi Treefroggers,

Re a figure of Eichmann… K&C has no interest in producing a figure of him.

Sincerely,
Gordon C. Neilson
Click to expand...
 
I don't think I took acception Mitch, just another viewpoint, we are all allowed to post our views here.

Rob
 
Rob..

I am all for any viewpoint and have defended people on here even though they were seen as being argumentative on this thread for the sake. Don't believe in censorship of any kind and enjoy these debates as they are fascinating as this one point opens several other interesting avenues. but, if you look back at the SA posts you did the last time jump all over a similar comment I think you thought was aimed at you which, is why I mentioned it specifically this time. I don't take offence to anything on here just find some of the views about the SS/SA interesting.
Mitch

Rob said:
I don't think I took acception Mitch, just another viewpoint, we are all allowed to post our views here.

Rob
Click to expand...
 
Mitch said:
Rob..

I am all for any viewpoint and have defended people on here even though they were seen as being argumentative on this thread for the sake. Don't believe in censorship of any kind and enjoy these debates as they are fascinating as this one point opens several other interesting avenues. but, if you look back at the SA posts you did the last time jump all over a similar comment I think you thought was aimed at you which, is why I mentioned it specifically this time.
Mitch
Click to expand...

Wow, you held onto it!. Ok no probs.

Rob
 
Rob..

Bit confused mate about what I have held onto???. I can just recall who says what about certain things often many years back, quite well.

I suppose with the announcement from Gordan its a rather moot argument as he is not on the release radar for K&C.
Mitch
 
Hi Gents,

Gordon has spoken. I see no need for further discussion of this subject so please move on.

Dave
 
Hey Mitch

believe me, I do not hold anything against the LAH guys- to each their own- after all, i collect the Romans- not sure I need to dig up all their "Atrocities:" :D

However, I can appreciate where people come from regarding the sensitivities of these figures. You mention the early war period. If we were to look at the early war period for the current conflict- the Global War on Terror (GWOT). then here are some possible contestants:

1- slain US Marines being pulled from rubble in Lebanon circa 1983;

2- mobs of angry Muslims lining the streets of Baghdad or Islamabad burning American flags;

3- seated vignette of passengers on Flight 93

as you can see, these types of suggestions/images can ignite very very emotional triggers in all of us one way or the other. My grandfather went to the big dance in 44 and he never really seemed to mind that I played with little Tigers and Panthers. There's historically accurate and then there is just simply good taste. I really don't see the need to display toy soldiers that invoke painful memories of generations that are still on this earth.
 
King & Country said:
Hi Treefroggers,

Re a figure of Eichmann… K&C has no interest in producing a figure of him.

Sincerely,
Gordon C. Neilson
Click to expand...

But is that due to commercial or moral reasons? Just curious how KC makes those decisions. Again, I'm not suggesting it, just curious where KC draws the line.
 
I would venture its a commercial decision not a moral one. As they have released all the main architects in the nazi regime without any worry over morality issues raised by some.

They did say they would not do train deportations etc but, I would think it would be hard depicting him in a release a single figure of eichmann as an obersturmbannfuhrer would not be commercially interesting. May be an interesting SL as mentioned in his dock on trial.

I don't see how he is more unpalatable than say Bormann, heydrich, or similar.
Mitch
 
Mitch said:
I don't see how he is more unpalatable than say Bormann, heydrich, or similar.
Mitch
Click to expand...

I think two things distinguish Eichmann. First, he was closer to the actual events of the Holocaust than others including Heydrich who were involved at a higher, decision-making level. Eichmann was responsible for the actual details and seeing to it that they were implemented. And he was often present in the camps. His physical presence at the camps and meeting with Jewish leaders associated him more closely with the atrocities than others. Particularly among survivors of the Holocaust. Second, and most importantly, he is one of the few higher ranking individuals who survived the war and was tried at a much later date. His trial in the 60's was much publicized and designed to educate and remind younger generations of those crimes. As a result, his name is closely associated with the holocaust while others involved have become more obscure.
 
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