D-Day/Market Garden Question (1 Viewer)

[marksable]

I'm not the most historically knowledgeable guy on these boards, so hoping for some insight from someone who is moreso.

Right now, I have three dios set alongside each other, in more or less chronological order..

1) Brits/Canadians landing at D-Day - Landing Craft vs. Atlantic Bunker
2) British Armor and troops - a mix of DD and MG - making it's way across a Bailey Bridge I got from The Old Toy Soldier Home in San Diego
and
3) An Arnhem diorama, MG paratroopers facing off against a Tiger and SS troops with the JG Arnhem dio pieces in the background.

All 3 sets are too crowded - the more I get into this hobby the more I learn less is more.

The most crowded is the Arnhem display, which is in part why I'm the least wild about it. I've also been thinking about replacing those JG pieces with the new K&C Normandy Village pieces. Hopefully selling off some excess MG etc. would pay for at least part of that.

I'd also like to add some Americans to the mix, but without doing an entirely new beach landing diorama.

That would mean transplanting the scene from Holland to France (although I suppose one could suspend their disbelief as to architecture).

Assuming that it was in France though...were/where/to what extent were brit Paratroopers involved in D-Day? Would they have been present in the same scene as American D-Day troops? I'm not a stickler for historical accuracy, but I do care somewhat (and realize I should know more).

Any thoughts/suggestions welcome.

(At some point I'll post the photos...may be out of town for a bit).

Thanks,

Mark

 

[jazzeum]

They weren't jumping together on June 6. Generally, the British paratroopers secured the area around Pegasus Bridge while the 82nd and 101nd were securing the areas on the other side near Utah Beach.

 

[Rob]

I'm not the most historically knowledgeable guy on these boards, so hoping for some insight from someone who is moreso.

Right now, I have three dios set alongside each other, in more or less chronological order..

1) Brits/Canadians landing at D-Day - Landing Craft vs. Atlantic Bunker
2) British Armor and troops - a mix of DD and MG - making it's way across a Bailey Bridge I got from The Old Toy Soldier Home in San Diego
and
3) An Arnhem diorama, MG paratroopers facing off against a Tiger and SS troops with the JG Arnhem dio pieces in the background.

All 3 sets are too crowded - the more I get into this hobby the more I learn less is more.

The most crowded is the Arnhem display, which is in part why I'm the least wild about it. I've also been thinking about replacing those JG pieces with the new K&C Normandy Village pieces. Hopefully selling off some excess MG etc. would pay for at least part of that.

I'd also like to add some Americans to the mix, but without doing an entirely new beach landing diorama.

That would mean transplanting the scene from Holland to France (although I suppose one could suspend their disbelief as to architecture).

Assuming that it was in France though...were/where/to what extent were brit Paratroopers involved in D-Day? Would they have been present in the same scene as American D-Day troops? I'm not a stickler for historical accuracy, but I do care somewhat (and realize I should know more).

Any thoughts/suggestions welcome.

(At some point I'll post the photos...may be out of town for a bit).

Thanks,

Mark

Brit Paras were responsible for securing Pegasus Bridge as Brad says, they were also responsible for attacking and silencing Merville Battery overlooking British landing beaches.The Brit Paras Gliders were scattered losing men and equipment (including mine detectors they needed to cross the mine fields) but despite this they formed up what troops they had and launched the attack. There was some bitter hand to hand fighting as they cleared the Bunkers that made up Merville Battery.(Have been there myself and its well worth a visit) In effect US and Brit Paras were at opposite ends of the landing beaches securing the flanks, so they were not in action together,so if you were strictly sticking to fact they would not be seen together.Hope this helps

Look forward to seeing your pics!

Rob

 

[Guy]

Mark +
both para div GB and US jumped miles apart from each other.
The Brits came in with gliders to capture the bridges over the Orne river.( later joined by Major Howard's commandos) 5th brigade was dropped in an area between Ranville and Amfreville.
objective: the capture of the Merville coastal gun emplacements and securing the left flank of the landing zones. None of the gliders transporting heavy equipment arrived at its destination .So the paras had to attack without jeeps, trailers, anti tank guns, mortars etc ...

The US paratroopers jumped at the other extremity of the Normandy landing zones . They had to clear the way inland for the landing forces arriving on the beaches of Omaha and Utah. They had to keep open the roads leading from the beaches inland into the Normandy countryside.
Major dropping zones for the 82nd and 101st were the region of Sainte Mère Eglise , Sainte Marie du Mont and Vierville.
Hope I have been of use to you. Could go on in much more detail but that is not the point here .
Guy

 

[Mitch]

Robs right Merville and Pegasus were two of the most important actions of the whole D-Day operation and would have meant certain failure had they not been taken by the Para's. Would make a great scene. Up the Ox and Buck's!!!!!
Mitch

Brit Paras were responsible for securing Pegasus Bridge as Brad says, they were also responsible for attacking and silencing Merville Battery overlooking British landing beaches. In effect US and Brit Paras were at opposite ends of the landing beaches securing the flanks, so they were not in action together.

Rob

 

[lancer]

Robs right Merville and Pegasus were two of the most important actions of the whole D-Day operation and would have meant certain failure had they not been taken by the Para's. Would make a great scene. Up the Ox and Buck's!!!!!
Mitch

I saw "The Longest Day" in 1962 as a nine year old and always thought the Pegasus Bridge sequence was the best part of the movie (along with the taking of the Ouistreham cassino). It was years before I figured out what Richard Todd was yelling and what it's significance was. -- Al

 

[Rob]

I saw "The Longest Day" in 1962 as a nine year old and always thought the Pegasus Bridge sequence was the best part of the movie (along with the taking of the Ouistreham cassino). It was years before I figured out what Richard Todd was yelling and what it's significance was. -- Al

And here is a bit of trivia, Richard Todd who led the attack on the Bridge in the film, was actually in the Paras and took part in the real attack on the Bridge on D Day, art mimicking real life you could say.:salute::

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Al..

I agree its great part of the film and the attack on the cassino was superb. Its a film I never ever get sick of watching
Mitch

I saw "The Longest Day" in 1962 as a nine year old and always thought the Pegasus Bridge sequence was the best part of the movie (along with the taking of the Ouistreham cassino). It was years before I figured out what Richard Todd was yelling and what it's significance was. -- Al

 

[lancer]

Al..

I agree its great part of the film and the attack on the cassino was superb. Its a film I never ever get sick of watching
Mitch

Agreed. A superb movie that I never miss when on the tube and, to me, is one of the best war films made. ^&grin -- Al

 

[jazzeum]

Courtersy of the BBC, below is a map of the landing zones for D Day.



If you are looking for suggested reading, the two best books on the subject are Max Hastings' Overlord and Decision in Normandy by Carlo D'Este (my personal favorite). Not as good but still worth a read is Antony Beevor's D Day The Battle for Normandy. Rick Atkinson, author of the Liberation Trilolgy (An Army at Dawn: The War in North Africa 1942-1943, and Day of Battle: The War in Siciliy 1943-1944) is working on volume 3, which includes D Day, and is eagerly anticipated. Not sure when it will be coming out however.

 

[Rob]

Courtersy of the BBC, below is a map of the landing zones for D Day.

View attachment 75776

If you are looking for suggested reading, the two best books on the subject are Max Hastings' Overlord and Decision in Normandy by Carlo D'Este (my personal favorite). Not as good but still worth a read is Antony Beevor's D Day The Battle for Normandy. Rick Atkinson, author of the Liberation Trilolgy (An Army at Dawn: The War in North Africa 1942-1943, and Day of Battle: The War in Siciliy 1943-1944) is working on volume 3, which includes D Day, and is eagerly anticipated. Not sure when it will be coming out however.

I can certainly second some of what Brad says here, Max Hastings Overlord is very good indeed and I really enjoyed Anthony Beevor's D Day (like all his books actually). Can I add purely from statements and accounts from those who were involved in D Day from the staging areas to the landing grounds, Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen etc, the Imperial War museum's 'Forgotten Voices of D Day ' by Roderick Bailey is fantastic. Please remember this is not about the Battle tactics but purely the words of those who were there. From MP's guarding the troops in England, Sailors Bombarding the beaches to British Sailors trapped on Omaha unarmed and under fire. Fascinating, moving and horrific, its the human story behind that World changing day.

Rob

 

[lancer]

Courtersy of the BBC, below is a map of the landing zones for D Day.

View attachment 75776

If you are looking for suggested reading, the two best books on the subject are Max Hastings' Overlord and Decision in Normandy by Carlo D'Este (my personal favorite). Not as good but still worth a read is Antony Beevor's D Day The Battle for Normandy. Rick Atkinson, author of the Liberation Trilolgy (An Army at Dawn: The War in North Africa 1942-1943, and Day of Battle: The War in Siciliy 1943-1944) is working on volume 3, which includes D Day, and is eagerly anticipated. Not sure when it will be coming out however.

Great books. Would like to add a couple of old classics to the list. Ryan's "The Longest Day" and Paul Carell's "Invasion; They're Coming". Both are great reads and Carell tells the story from the other side of the hill. -- Al

 

[Mitch]

Some very good books mentioned but, for me, the beevor book was rather poor and failed to appreciate the brit actions in normandy and, produced very little to our understanding of the D-Day action. Carell's book was and is, a favourite of mine
Mitch

Great books. Would like to add a couple of old classics to the list. Ryan's "The Longest Day" and Paul Carell's "Invasion; They're Coming". Both are great reads and Carell tells the story from the other side of the hill. -- Al

 

[Cyber Field Marshall]

The most crowded is the Arnhem display, which is in part why I'm the least wild about it. I've also been thinking about replacing those JG pieces with the new K&C Normandy Village pieces. Hopefully selling off some excess MG etc. would pay for at least part of that.
Mark

My good man you can NEVER have too many Market Garden pieces!!! {sm4}

 

[marksable]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the history and the suggested reading and films. Sorry for the delay, been traveling and then in the midst of the major power outage in Southern California.

Looks like if I want to do American D-Day it will be another scene. Does anyone happen to know the dimensions of the two new Normandy Buildings?

 

[Terp152]

Courtersy of the BBC, below is a map of the landing zones for D Day.

View attachment 75776

If you are looking for suggested reading, the two best books on the subject are Max Hastings' Overlord and Decision in Normandy by Carlo D'Este (my personal favorite). Not as good but still worth a read is Antony Beevor's D Day The Battle for Normandy. Rick Atkinson, author of the Liberation Trilolgy (An Army at Dawn: The War in North Africa 1942-1943, and Day of Battle: The War in Siciliy 1943-1944) is working on volume 3, which includes D Day, and is eagerly anticipated. Not sure when it will be coming out however.

Brad, the Atkinson books are outstanding (I'm thinking of reading them again). I emailed him about a yr ago, maybe longer, and asked him about the third volume. He replied at the time he was starting the research and it would be 3-4 yrs until the final book would be published. Chris

 

[Terp152]

I saw "The Longest Day" in 1962 as a nine year old and always thought the Pegasus Bridge sequence was the best part of the movie (along with the taking of the Ouistreham cassino). It was years before I figured out what Richard Todd was yelling and what it's significance was. -- Al

Al, those were the best scenes of the movie for me as well. I never figured out what Todd was yelling. Pls share. Thanks, Chris

 

[marksable]

My good man you can NEVER have too many Market Garden pieces!!! {sm4}

Individually, I'm happy with them all as figures. But put them all together and given my space limitations it becomes a crowded scene. Lots of paratroopers firing at point blank range at a Tiger. I think I could use less pieces to come with a more evocative scene.

I'll see if I can finally figure out how to post pics so that I can show you what I mean.

(Apologies for the quality - these were taken with my iphone, indoors at night with poor lighting...and I wouldn't be the greatest photographer without those conditions)

Picture each of these arranged from left to right:

Here's the Brit/Canadian D-Day landing

Obviously the Bunker wouldn't reall be this close to shore but I like this dio. Like my Arnhem dio, I think this can still be effective with less figures (meaning I can hopefully sell some to finance future purchases).

Here's Brit Armor advancing with some Tommies/Paratroopers on the Bailey Bridge, somewhere in Europe

I"m pretty with the Bailey Bridge dio. I've been thinking about placing some of the FOB civilians I own on the bridge going in the other direction. That would either necessitate me parting with MG figs, or putting them on the other side, where they will be blocked.

And here's my Arnhem Dio:

Maybe you can see what I mean now. You can see half the troops, most notably the Germans who are using the Tiger for cover. Believe it or not this actually used to be even more crowded. I had WS121 in front of the Tiger (I'm going to sell WS121, if you are interested PM me. Nice piece, it's just...too many figures and you wind up with a traffic jam rather than a display.

I haven't decided which, if any pieces I'll sell, but I think it's likely I will part with some. If you or anyone else is interested in specific MG figures let me know (you can PM me with an offer here or e-mail me at marksable(at)aol.com) . If I part with anything I'm always happiest when it goes to someone on the board.

Best,

Mark

 

[uksubs]

Nice photos Mark look just like my two dio I've got . I would not sell your MG figures yet as there not making good money at the moment as there seem a lot about up for sell

 

[Guy]

Nice pics.
Don't sell any of your MG figures , the demand for them is not high at the moment. Love your bailey bridge. Where did you find it ? would love to have one of those .
guy:smile2: