Bulge or DAK (1 Viewer)

[Mitch]

You have to work with what you have. It would have looked odd to not have painted it
Mitch

Correct me if I'm wrong...if DAK infantry used a cloth tan helmet cover?

 

[ollie_drab]

You have to work with what you have. It would have looked odd to not have painted it
Mitch

I realize a pattern (spring-dot, splinter, ect.) stahlelm cover would be extinct in the DAK, in lieu of just painting a stahlhelm to match the terrain. However, I noticed the CS-DAK tank riders have tan helmet covers. I need clarification if anyone knows, there is any evidence of a tan stahlhelm cover among the in-theater troops of the DAK? Thanks, Ollie_D.

 

[Mitch]

I don't have much stuff on DAK troops plenty on their armour but, some of the books have pics with helmets with covers and some where they have made covers themselves crudely. I remember reading something that it was something to do with heat rather than a camo thing (obviously)

I don't know if they were standard issue plenty DAK guys on here should know more
Mitch

I realize a pattern (spring-dot, splinter, ect.) stahlelm cover would be extinct in the DAK, in lieu of just painting a stahlhelm to match the terrain. However, I noticed the CS-DAK tank riders have tan helmet covers. I need clarification if anyone knows, there is any evidence of a tan stahlhelm cover among the in-theater troops of the DAK? Thanks, Ollie_D.

 

[fmethorst]

I don't think there was an issued tropical helmet cover but improvised covers did exist.

 

[lancer]

O.k., I'll bite...anyone care to speculate; if a repaint really would devalue a mint condition piece, apart from a mint original piece? (sorry if this the same context in Jazzeum's reply, if I misunderstood?)
Thanks, Ollie_D.

Of course it will devalue it. Once the alteration (of any kind) has taken place the piece is no longer "mint" and it's condition has nothing to do with that definition. Any alteration will kill the mint definition and the collectibility for a serious collector. That doesn't mean the piece will have no value, especially to someone who likes the alteration and doesn't care about original condition. However, I don't think altered pieces will have the same dollar value or popularity that the original piece would have. KC's older pieces are very popular and expensive, as long as they are in original, unaltered condition. -- Al

 

[ollie_drab]

I don't have much stuff on DAK troops plenty on their armour but, some of the books have pics with helmets with covers and some where they have made covers themselves crudely. I remember reading something that it was something to do with heat rather than a camo thing (obviously)

I don't know if they were standard issue plenty DAK guys on here should know more
Mitch

Thanks for the information, Mitch. I would like to know what publication has that information, if you run across it again. Sounds pretty interesting!
Best, Ollie_D.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

As far as I know the Afrika Korps often used soft hats and when helmets were used they were painted tan. Germany issued only 3 main helmet cover patterns - Splittermuster (splinter pattern), Sumpftarnmuster (swamp pattern), and Platanenmuster (plane tree pattern). The covers were reversible with white winter camo on the other side (not too useful in the desert) and were not issued in large quantities until 1942.. Soldiers improvised making helmet covers from different materials including camo smocks, tan uniform shirts and pants so there were likely tan covers in North Afrika. But I don't think Germany ever issued a tan helmet cover for the DAK.

Terry

 

[ollie_drab]

As far as I know the Afrika Korps often used soft hats and when helmets were used they were painted tan. Germany issued only 3 main helmet cover patterns - Splittermuster (splinter pattern), Sumpftarnmuster (swamp pattern), and Platanenmuster (plane tree pattern). The covers were reversible with white winter camo on the other side (not too useful in the desert) and were not issued in large quantities until 1942.. Soldiers improvised making helmet covers from different materials including camo smocks, tan uniform shirts and pants so there were likely tan covers in North Afrika. But I don't think Germany ever issued a tan helmet cover for the DAK.

Terry

Thanks Terry, for the knowledge! In the same vein I discussed with Mitch earlier was a general consensus, where DAK Troopen African theater don cloth stahlhelm covers, the likelihood that cotton material deters ubiquitous UV rays of the desert sun, thus cooling; opposed to a raw
(or painted) metal surface that only adds heat to one's melon. If I run across evidence, I will post same. Ollie_D.

 

[ollie_drab]

I don't think there was an issued tropical helmet cover but improvised covers did exist.

Hi, Frank...sorry, I didn't see your post until now for some reason? Anyway, that photo evidence doesn't get any better^&grin! Picture's worth a thousand words, many Thanks! Ollie_D.

 

[ollie_drab]

Any alteration will kill the mint definition and the collectibility for a serious collector. That doesn't mean the piece will have no value, especially to someone who likes the alteration and doesn't care about original condition. However, I don't think altered pieces will have the same dollar value or popularity that the original piece would have. KC's older pieces are very popular and expensive, as long as they are in original, unaltered condition. -- Al

Hello Al, Thanks for the insight. My request was stating the obvious, however, I wanted to gain more insight, or understand a little more of the methodology, or schools of thought behind discriminating collectors that discern a repainted, or modified piece. What I understand is, the person enjoys a modified piece, and one day chooses to sell it, may or may not fetch the asking price, or a reserve price, factoring fair market value, piece collect-ability, (was the piece a limited production run, e.g. rarity). I would purchase a repainted piece, but how much would I be willing to pay? That depends on many things. Thanks again!

 

[Mitch]

While I fully understand where Al is coming from I hope that we have moved passed some of the notions that collectors who repaint or, have repaints done are somehow devaluing or destroying sets or, are not serious collectors. I think, and hope we have I read with amusement the calls for repaints on CS sets rather than K&C as if they are a lesser product. That may have not been the intention but, how it came across

As I say, I had one poster who commented that repaints were butchering sets!! What I have seen in the last several years is a growing move towards people who want things repainted to suit their collections and, tastes. I have also done many many repaints myself and, have seen sets sold where the price holds the same if not, makes more than an unpainted.

The Caveat is what I mentioned before the early sets like some of the early WSS and say arnhem (many more but these will doas an example) would be devalued by repainting but, newer sets IMO have not lost their value well, so long as the repainting is of a sufficient quality.

There will always be collectors who dislike alterations and collect for the original item and, are happy with what they look like. I have always found that being a modeller and painter first, I always look at a model and see what could be improved. At first, it was cleaning up wheel painting where the rubber effect had not been fully done and, then I moved onto other things.

Repaints don't often come up on the market as they are usually done for a collector who desires a specific item for them personally and, not done for a resale intention. We have not really seen what the price points are or will be until these things start coming more frequently to the market. There is also the notion that these items could and should command a better price as they are, in reality, unique sets and often one off's. As mentioned not many come up for sale but, the few that have I have seen have done well. Just my thoughts as a collector,painter/converter
Mitch

 

[jazzeum]

Of course it will devalue it. Once the alteration (of any kind) has taken place the piece is no longer "mint" and it's condition has nothing to do with that definition. Any alteration will kill the mint definition and the collectibility for a serious collector. That doesn't mean the piece will have no value, especially to someone who likes the alteration and doesn't care about original condition. However, I don't think altered pieces will have the same dollar value or popularity that the original piece would have. KC's older pieces are very popular and expensive, as long as they are in original, unaltered condition. -- Al

I fully agree with this although I think I have seen some repainted K & C pieces go on eBay for healthy sums. I also have friends who have had rare pieces painted by Alex Prieto and they look fantastic. I think it comes down to a personal decision and how you view your collection. I would never have one of the older K & C pieces repainted as it destroys its market value. I am not one who views my collections as sacrosanct and says I will never sell my collection because as you get older you tend to shed possessions in general and do you want to pass that problem to your heirs. There are, of courses, pieces I don't want to sell like my K & C glossy collection but let's remember these are possessions and everything is temporal. Moreover, tastes change not to mention that in this economic period we currently live in money is a bit tight. Therefore, I have to make my collection pay for itself. If that means selling pieces so be it.

Cheers,

Brad

 

[wayne556517]

I fully agree with this although I think I have seen some repainted K & C pieces go on eBay for healthy sums. I also have friends who have had rare pieces painted by Alex Prieto and they look fantastic. I think it comes down to a personal decision and how you view your collection. I would never have one of the older K & C pieces repainted as it destroys its market value. I am not one who views my collections as sacrosanct and says I will never sell my collection because as you get older you tend to shed possessions in general and do you want to pass that problem to your heirs. There are, of courses, pieces I don't want to sell like my K & C glossy collection but let's remember these are possessions and everything is temporal. Moreover, tastes change not to mention that in this economic period we currently live in money is a bit tight. Therefore, I have to make my collection pay for itself. If that means selling pieces so be it.

Cheers,

Brad

Mine is purely and simple room mate i would love to keep getting SS but im out of room and with all these new planes coming out something has to go.
Might just flog them mate to someone who is collecting this line.