“If dealers were allowed to discount prices would be lower to collectors” (2 Viewers)

[Rob]

I rather enjoy this Forum when I read well reasoned, well written posts like these.

Brad

Absolutely agree. And pictures of Kelly Brook are nice too:wink2:

Rob

 

[Fitzgibbon]

..."retired" or "not retired".... The point at this time is relatively mute...
Oh dear! If only it could be so...but the English word, I believe, is "moot"...use of a dictionary might assist the rest of "most collectors" to understand and to be able to respond in an informed manner? And for the record, as one of that number, I figure that I have always been discriminatory with my purchases. When I am in panic mode, I stay away from shops and visit my doctor. He always prescribes rational choice as a solution. Any time I make a bad choice, I accept responsibility and endeavour to add to my ration of rationality to avoid repeating a mistake. Blaming the supplier/s does not come under the heading of 'rational choice'...it's not the adult way. So here's to the fun in the hobby to the exclusion of all negativity; and if you would quote my band of silent brothers and sisters as tending towards something perceptively negative, please do me the coutesy of asking me for my vote beforehand. If you engage in politics then there will naturally be two sides; but there are also the great 'uninterested' who are nonetheless worthy beings. Just because we are silent does not give one side or the other the right to claim our numbers by default. Thank you for your interest.

 

[Rob]

I cant wait.

Would that make you Jack the Ripper ?! You do know there are theories he was a Dr !!!

Really{eek3}

Well I'm not meeting him in London for a drink then! He may think me a whore a slit my gizzard!!:wink2:

Rob

 

[Jack]

Really{eek3}

Well I'm not meeting him in London for a drink then! He may think me a whore a slit my gizzard!!:wink2:

Rob

You would go broke if you were Rob - I have seen the photos. Like me, you are not part of a 'P' range.

 

[Rob]

You would go broke if you were Rob - I have seen the photos. Like me, you are not part of a 'P' range.

^&grin^&grin

True, very true!

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

Yes, as Rob reiterated, time to move on and we can regroup for the -- what is it -- 50th iteration of these issues :rolleyes2:

 

[Rob]

Yes, as Rob reiterated, time to move on and we can regroup for the -- what is it -- 50th iteration of these issues :rolleyes2:

Maybe its what keeps us all together as a unit Brad, we've all been having this discussion for years, interspersed with a few laughs, plenty of enjoyment of the hobby, but we are all still on this forum rabbiting away at each other!^&grin

Rob

 

[binder001]

Interesting thread, I just started reading in on it.

First, I like Andy very much but for a customer to take business advice from the manager of King & Country is like taking car buying advice from the president of Cadillac. There's a certain inescapable point of view as to why you need to buy his product at a certain price.

As a consumer, my gut feeling is that a "no discounts" policy is simply a way to maintain a "cachet" about certain products. I buy my jean from Wal Mart becuase they have the item I need at a price I can afford to pay - I don't wear any fancy designer clothes. I don't care about the name sewed in as long as it lasts reasonably and meets my needs. Similarly, I don't buy K&C because their name is on the box, I buy them because they make a fine product and they meet my needs (OK "desires" rather than "needs"). The cachet does help resale, I admit, and yes, I have capitalized on that.

I dabble in several model hobbies, trains, plastic models, etc as well as plastic and metal toy soldiers. The trend across all of them is for the small "mom and pop" store to be forced out of business by larger competitors who sell agressively over the internet, with significant discounts. I have had good experiences with internet sellers and bad experiences. The same goes for toy soldier shops - I see no need to save "the little guy" just because he is little. Back in 2009 I visited San Antonio and was able to go to King's X. I had such lousy customer service that I wouldn't walk across the street to buy from that outfit again! On the other hand, my first K&C dealer was Toy Soldiers Of Charleston. He was extremely nice and friendly and got me interested in buying King and Country products. So you can't say that a large discount store is "evil" and a small shop is "better" or more deserving of my money.

I am lucky enough to have a couple "brick and mortar" train stores in my area. They ar small shops that emphasize customer service. They offer about 10% discounts and both use the internet as a marketing tool. They carry multiple lines of products and they let the products sell themselves - no line is held back at a "no discount" to maintain its "collector value". These fellows seem to be eking out a living in the current economy. They are free to market their wares without a manufacturer dictating pricing policy. Somehow these manufacturers keep producing new product and the products seem to sell, even with $4 per gallon gas and the other pressures of the current economy. So I would say that a manufacurer's pricing policy does not help the dealer keep his doors open.

Gary B.

 

[gk5717]

Interesting thread, I just started reading in on it.

First, I like Andy very much but for a customer to take business advice from the manager of King & Country is like taking car buying advice from the president of Cadillac. There's a certain inescapable point of view as to why you need to buy his product at a certain price.

As a consumer, my gut feeling is that a "no discounts" policy is simply a way to maintain a "cachet" about certain products. I buy my jean from Wal Mart becuase they have the item I need at a price I can afford to pay - I don't wear any fancy designer clothes. I don't care about the name sewed in as long as it lasts reasonably and meets my needs. Similarly, I don't buy K&C because their name is on the box, I buy them because they make a fine product and they meet my needs (OK "desires" rather than "needs"). The cachet does help resale, I admit, and yes, I have capitalized on that.

I dabble in several model hobbies, trains, plastic models, etc as well as plastic and metal toy soldiers. The trend across all of them is for the small "mom and pop" store to be forced out of business by larger competitors who sell agressively over the internet, with significant discounts. I have had good experiences with internet sellers and bad experiences. The same goes for toy soldier shops - I see no need to save "the little guy" just because he is little. Back in 2009 I visited San Antonio and was able to go to King's X. I had such lousy customer service that I wouldn't walk across the street to buy from that outfit again! On the other hand, my first K&C dealer was Toy Soldiers Of Charleston. He was extremely nice and friendly and got me interested in buying King and Country products. So you can't say that a large discount store is "evil" and a small shop is "better" or more deserving of my money.

I am lucky enough to have a couple "brick and mortar" train stores in my area. They ar small shops that emphasize customer service. They offer about 10% discounts and both use the internet as a marketing tool. They carry multiple lines of products and they let the products sell themselves - no line is held back at a "no discount" to maintain its "collector value". These fellows seem to be eking out a living in the current economy. They are free to market their wares without a manufacturer dictating pricing policy. Somehow these manufacturers keep producing new product and the products seem to sell, even with $4 per gallon gas and the other pressures of the current economy. So I would say that a manufacurer's pricing policy does not help the dealer keep his doors open.

Gary B.

Excellent post.
Gary

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Interesting thread, I just started reading in on it.

First, I like Andy very much but for a customer to take business advice from the manager of King & Country is like taking car buying advice from the president of Cadillac. There's a certain inescapable point of view as to why you need to buy his product at a certain price.

As a consumer, my gut feeling is that a "no discounts" policy is simply a way to maintain a "cachet" about certain products. I buy my jean from Wal Mart becuase they have the item I need at a price I can afford to pay - I don't wear any fancy designer clothes. I don't care about the name sewed in as long as it lasts reasonably and meets my needs. Similarly, I don't buy K&C because their name is on the box, I buy them because they make a fine product and they meet my needs (OK "desires" rather than "needs"). The cachet does help resale, I admit, and yes, I have capitalized on that.

I dabble in several model hobbies, trains, plastic models, etc as well as plastic and metal toy soldiers. The trend across all of them is for the small "mom and pop" store to be forced out of business by larger competitors who sell agressively over the internet, with significant discounts. I have had good experiences with internet sellers and bad experiences. The same goes for toy soldier shops - I see no need to save "the little guy" just because he is little. Back in 2009 I visited San Antonio and was able to go to King's X. I had such lousy customer service that I wouldn't walk across the street to buy from that outfit again! On the other hand, my first K&C dealer was Toy Soldiers Of Charleston. He was extremely nice and friendly and got me interested in buying King and Country products. So you can't say that a large discount store is "evil" and a small shop is "better" or more deserving of my money.

I am lucky enough to have a couple "brick and mortar" train stores in my area. They ar small shops that emphasize customer service. They offer about 10% discounts and both use the internet as a marketing tool. They carry multiple lines of products and they let the products sell themselves - no line is held back at a "no discount" to maintain its "collector value". These fellows seem to be eking out a living in the current economy. They are free to market their wares without a manufacturer dictating pricing policy. Somehow these manufacturers keep producing new product and the products seem to sell, even with $4 per gallon gas and the other pressures of the current economy. So I would say that a manufacurer's pricing policy does not help the dealer keep his doors open.

Gary B.

Many very good points. And I don't take business advice from Andy. And I don't buy K&C just because of the name on the box - I buy the ones I like. As for the small stores that would be forced out of business by discounting, "kind of like Wal-Mart or in the old days Toys ’r’ Us would force out smaller independent stores" they have other pressures on them. One of those pressures is buying a minimum monthly order from K&C even when sales are slow. That helps stabilize K&C's cash flow and puts the sales risk and cash flow problem onto the small stores. Good for K&C but not so good for their dealers.

Terry

 

[PanzerAce1944]

On the other end of this topic, I have seen several dealers increase prices once the item becomes retired. Possibly due to low quantity and high demand ^&confuse
Some of you may have seen this too.

 

[jazzeum]

On the other end of this topic, I have seen several dealers increase prices once the item becomes retired. Possibly due to low quantity and high demand ^&confuse
Some of you may have seen this too.

It's nothing to do with that, in my opinion. They just hold them back so they can sell them at a higher price when it retires. Nothing new. I don't think it's appropriate but it's been discussed before so no need to re-open that can of worms :wink2:

 

[Combat]

I'm sure some discounting goes on and no one, including Andy, cares much so long as it does not become publicized. Dealers are in business to make money. Not provide a shelter for misfit toys. It's simple economics not to sit on product. I doubt unsold product is a huge problem though. Presumably dealers have some idea about customer demand and order an amount they believe they can sell. I know there are some minimum order requirements, but if you can't sell that amount of stock, you likely need to try another business. However, there may be some occasional duds that simply don't move.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

It's nothing to do with that, in my opinion. They just hold them back so they can sell them at a higher price when it retires. Nothing new. I don't think it's appropriate but it's been discussed before so no need to re-open that can of worms :wink2:

why is it not appropriate ? We are talking dealers and pricing aren't we. This whole topic is opening up a can of worms over and over again, and again. To me for example if a company wants the same retail pricing for all of its dealers across the board it keeps its dealers on the same playing field with the same rules. I can clearly see how price cutting can easily get out of hand. If the manufacturer sets an established across the board selling price it is the individual dealers
responsibility to uphold the policy and play by the set rules. Seems fair to me ^&cool

 

[jazzeum]

Well, you asked the question :rolleyes2:

 

[Phantom Warrior]

No Neil I don't , I see it as giving as good as he gets to be honest, to and fro you know. People are free to voice their thoughts, criticisms etc and Andy and anyone else is free to stand up for themselves and answer as they see fit.

I think Jack, Brett, Mitch have all made good points on here and now as you suggest Neil its time to move on.


Cheers

Rob

I think he got a lot more than he gave.

Terry

 

[Desertkiwi]

Neil

Did you read the other posts in this thread? Have your read the open criticisms of maufacturers that have seen them come onto the Forum and engage in open arguments with members? Have you seen the scale, accuracy, and price threads that have seen manufacturers defending their products in the face of what were thinly veiled accusations that they were lying, members waging campaigns against certain manufacturers and their products, members banned, or banned from certain threads, or suspended from posting, members put on enforced ignore, members accusing each other of being Nazis, Communists, Racists, Homophobes, New Zealanders.

In the midst of this, I have made almost 4000 posts and have only twice been critical - in any fashion - of any manufacturer or their product. I bad mouthed John Jenkins for releasing products that compelled me to buy them because they were so good and I mention that an FL Stug which I had thought about possibly maybe buying had been retired which put me off. I am quite the baiter - twice in 4000 posts. Get ready for February 2014 because I will really let rip. I then acknowledged that every manufacturer retires products and it was a logical and appropriate decision and indeed, why should a businessman hang around while I make a decision?

I will apologise again for the vitriolic and aggressive manner in which I have posted in this thread but I will add that it is odd that you bag the censors for the manner in which they do their job but they allow your criticism of censorship to stand. Perhaps they are more committed to your right of free speech than you are to mine.

Regards

Jack

Jack, what more can I say.......you are a Legend cobber....you mentioned the 'Z' word,:salute:: honest, I had a tear in me eye mate.......we Kiwi's are easily pleased, a kind word, a fridge full of cold beer and a stimulating Thread on TF....wicked{sm4}{sm4}{sm4}

 

[Northgate Woods]

Jack, what more can I say.......you are a Legend cobber....you mentioned the 'Z' word,:salute:: honest, I had a tear in me eye mate.......we Kiwi's are easily pleased, a kind word, a fridge full of cold beer and a stimulating Thread on TF....wicked{sm4}{sm4}{sm4}

Toddy mate,
Luv you cobber. Another coffee spiller. Made my morning my Kiwi brother.^&grin Best reply post of the entire thread, apart of course for my good mate, Young Jack.:smile2: I think I might have to have a quiet word in his wife's ear at the K&C Dinner in Brissy in two weeks time.
Cheers Howard

 

[Jack]

Toddy mate,
Luv you cobber. Another coffee spiller. Made my morning my Kiwi brother.^&grin Best reply post of the entire thread, apart of course for my good mate, Young Jack.:smile2: I think I might have to have a quiet word in his wife's ear at the K&C Dinner in Brissy in two weeks time.
Cheers Howard

I am very wary of her engaging with outsiders. She is far too good for me, yet does not seem to know that or she isn't letting on. I have organised for her to sit at a table with Wayne, Phil, Barneywomble, Bob and Larso just so that I look better.

 

[larso]

"You would go broke if you were Rob - I have seen the photos. Like me, you are not part of a 'P' range." This may be the line of the year.

"In fact I may well not have bad mouthed any TS product off the Forum except for one Britains figure." This is true, I know the figure concerned and Jack has an unflatering impression that he does.

AS for discounting. I don't think it would hurt Andy at all. The dealers though would be inclined to undercut each other and the 'bricks n mortar' places in particular would suffer. WE all lose as they disappear. I think that Andy sees his policy as being good for the shops and for the general hobby. I certainly do.