Britains 4.7" Naval Gun (2 Viewers)

[Obee]

Any idea on how many Artillerymen would have made up the full crew????

Most larger calibre guns had a minimum detachment of 10 gunners, this is the duties for a 6" 26cwt HOWITZER DETACHMENT

• Number 1: (a Sergeant) Commands the 'gun' (howitzer). Selects ground for gun platform. Lays for elevation and passes angle for dial sight and deflection to No. 4. Supervises ramming and gives order to fire. Fits and removes rocking bar sight with No. 4.
• Number 2: Opens and closes the breech. Inserts tubes in the vent. Fires the gun. Operates the rapid elevating gear, putting the gun in and out of loading position (71/20 elevation). Applies right brake as soon as the gun laying is complete. Attends to the right brake when travelling (horse drawn batteries). Removes and replaces muzzle and breech covers. Assists No. 3 in lifting and traversing the trail.
• Number 3: Rams home the round (with No. 5). Uncaps fuzes. Applies left brake as soon as laying is complete. Attends to the left brake when travelling (horse drawn batteries). Assists No. 2 in lifting and traversing the trail.
• Number 4: Lays (aims) the gun, with No. 1. Removes and replaces sight cover. Assists No. 1 fitting rocking bar sight. Clamps dial sight, fits clinometer. Directs No. 6 planting night firing picket and aiming posts.
• Number 5: Rams home the round (with No. 3). Assists No. 10 cleaning and fuzing shells.
• Number 6: Prepares, fetches and loads cartridges. Plants right firing picket (with No. 9) and aiming posts. Assists No. 7 clearing the spade when choked.
• Number 7 and 9: Assist No. 10 preparing shells. Carry shells to the gun. No. 7 assists No. 6 to clear the spade when choked. No. 9 plants picket with No. 6.
• Number 8: (an NCO) Prepares charges (cartridges) and groups by lots Keeps record of charges.
• Number 10: Issues shells, and issues tubes to No. 2. Ensures shells are clean and fuzed.

Note, there is no officer in the gun detachment.

Hope that helps?

John

 

[aujj65]

JB, I like what you are doing here and your other threads! ^&cool

This is the Tradition of London set that I painted many years ago, as you can see - What a load of Bullocks! {sm4}

Keep up the good work. :salute::

Jeff

 

[johnnybach]

Most larger calibre guns had a minimum detachment of 10 gunners, this is the duties for a 6" 26cwt HOWITZER DETACHMENT

• Number 1: (a Sergeant) Commands the 'gun' (howitzer). Selects ground for gun platform. Lays for elevation and passes angle for dial sight and deflection to No. 4. Supervises ramming and gives order to fire. Fits and removes rocking bar sight with No. 4.
• Number 2: Opens and closes the breech. Inserts tubes in the vent. Fires the gun. Operates the rapid elevating gear, putting the gun in and out of loading position (71/20 elevation). Applies right brake as soon as the gun laying is complete. Attends to the right brake when travelling (horse drawn batteries). Removes and replaces muzzle and breech covers. Assists No. 3 in lifting and traversing the trail.
• Number 3: Rams home the round (with No. 5). Uncaps fuzes. Applies left brake as soon as laying is complete. Attends to the left brake when travelling (horse drawn batteries). Assists No. 2 in lifting and traversing the trail.
• Number 4: Lays (aims) the gun, with No. 1. Removes and replaces sight cover. Assists No. 1 fitting rocking bar sight. Clamps dial sight, fits clinometer. Directs No. 6 planting night firing picket and aiming posts.
• Number 5: Rams home the round (with No. 3). Assists No. 10 cleaning and fuzing shells.
• Number 6: Prepares, fetches and loads cartridges. Plants right firing picket (with No. 9) and aiming posts. Assists No. 7 clearing the spade when choked.
• Number 7 and 9: Assist No. 10 preparing shells. Carry shells to the gun. No. 7 assists No. 6 to clear the spade when choked. No. 9 plants picket with No. 6.
• Number 8: (an NCO) Prepares charges (cartridges) and groups by lots Keeps record of charges.
• Number 10: Issues shells, and issues tubes to No. 2. Ensures shells are clean and fuzed.

Note, there is no officer in the gun detachment.

Hope that helps?

John

It most certainly does John - so thank you (yet again) for a comprehensive answer to my query. Well...............I already do have an Officer ( to do the paperwork??), so I'll keep him on - as my layout will be very similar to the one in the pic, that I like so much. However, I do take your point that it is the OR's and NCO's that do the real work of firing the weapon.

I might also consider something that I have been wanting in my collection for a long time. Maybe I could employ some Sailors (Naval Brigade), to accompany the lads and the gun - to wherever they're going? Could be they have just handed over the weapon to the RFA - and decided to accompany them as an armed guard to the destination????

I might get say ten Sailors or so in Sennet hats to use - either with these - or as a separate unit. I'll mull that over.

Thanks again John - much appreciated.:salute:: jb

 

[johnnybach]

JB, I like what you are doing here and your other threads! ^&cool

This is the Tradition of London set that I painted many years ago, as you can see - What a load of Bullocks! {sm4}

Keep up the good work. :salute::

Jeff

That's a real corker of a set Jeff, and beautifully painted too. Glad you like 'em too.

I think I'm going to restrict my Oxen to 8 - as I really don't have the space in my cabinets to go to that number. However, it's good to see how you painted them - as it will help me out when I tackle them. I'm doing a warm-up with two I already have at the moment - who are pulling along a Water Barrel. Here's a quick progress pic below. I was playing around with some colours for the beasts last night - so this is just a first coat. They are Dorset castings again.

 

[johnnybach]

Interestingly Jeff, there's a Tradition set like that, going on e-bay at the moment. Take a look - they only want £685 for it.

( They also have some walking flankers carrying rifles.).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRADITIO...&sd=222773556602&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

 

[theBaron]

...Note, there is no officer in the gun detachment...

Would a battery have been commanded by an officer? Or perhaps a senior NCO?

Prost!
Brad

 

[Obee]

Would a battery have been commanded by an officer? Or perhaps a senior NCO?

Prost!
Brad

Brad,

yes, the BC is an officer, so are the SecO's (section commanders) who as junior officers look after 3 guns each in a 6 gun battery.

Another officer is the GPO, Gun Position Officer, who runs the Command Post that does the calculations for range and elevation to get the bombs onto the target.

Most of the other officers are deployed away from the guns as FOO's (Forward Observation Officers) who send in fire missions to support the troops in combat.

Each gun is commanded by a senior NCO, Sgt who is then responsible for that gun and its crew and only he can order it to fire, after receiving the order from the CP (Command Post)

John

 

[theBaron]

Thanks for clarifying, John! That's pretty much what I expected. It's practically unchanged from the way artillery was commanded in the 18th century.

Prost!
Brad

 

[johnnybach]

That's a real corker of a set Jeff, and beautifully painted too. Glad you like 'em too.

I think I'm going to restrict my Oxen to 8 - as I really don't have the space in my cabinets to go to that number. However, it's good to see how you painted them - as it will help me out when I tackle them. I'm doing a warm-up with two I already have at the moment - who are pulling along a Water Barrel. Here's a quick progress pic below. I was playing around with some colours for the beasts last night - so this is just a first coat. They are Dorset castings again.


View attachment 225286

Seeing as I showed you my "just started" version of my Oxen towing a Water Barrel - I guess I'd better show you it again - as I completed it this afternoon.
Well..............the telly was the usual guff - and my work-room has a nice warm radiator - so why not?

This model was actually inspired by a superb Trophy version that Martyn (GICOP) showed quite a while ago - but it made a big impression on me ( as a lot of Trophy figures do), and I was delighted to find an unpainted casting version also on offer at Dorset Model Soldiers.

So....................I bought it - just because I liked it so much.

Anhoo............here's my new Water-cart.

 

[thebritfarmer]

Some more nice additions to the collection JB. Is the yoke part of the oxen mold or are the animals removable?

 

[Buster]

Seeing as I showed you my "just started" version of my Oxen towing a Water Barrel - I guess I'd better show you it again - as I completed it this afternoon.
Well..............the telly was the usual guff - and my work-room has a nice warm radiator - so why not?

This model was actually inspired by a superb Trophy version that Martyn (GICOP) showed quite a while ago - but it made a big impression on me ( as a lot of Trophy figures do), and I was delighted to find an unpainted casting version also on offer at Dorset Model Soldiers.

So....................I bought it - just because I liked it so much.

Anhoo............here's my new Water-cart.

Looks great jb, always a pleasure looking in on your threads.

Watch out for that GICOP character, his "inspirations" can end up costing a bloke a pretty penny! :wink2:^&grin

B.

 

[johnnybach]

Some more nice additions to the collection JB. Is the yoke part of the oxen mold or are the animals removable?

Hi Scott. Yes - the yoke is cast-onto the Ox neck. There are two small pegs facing forwards on the top of the yoke. These locate into two holes ( a pair each side) of the cross member - which is attached to the draw-bar of the trailer.

I first made up a base-plate for my two oxen to stand on. Then I worked out exactly where to pin them, so that the trailer could be attached by the method described above. Once they were on and glue set - I attached the Water-barrel trailer permanently, by glueing in the pegs to the cross-bar.

And it fitted - first time! {sm3} jb

 

[johnnybach]

Looks great jb, always a pleasure looking in on your threads.

Watch out for that GICOP character, his "inspirations" can end up costing a bloke a pretty penny! :wink2:^&grin

B.

Ha-ha! Well.....................yes and no buddy. If I went down the Trophy route - yes. However, when I see something that M shows that I just love - then I start thinking.............."now how could I get something like that?"

It may take a bit of time for me to dream up something - but I usually can - and in this case, I knew exactly where to go to get one, because I had seen it before at Dorset Soldiers (unpainted and in pieces). It was only when I saw M's painted piece, I realised just how nice it was.

So I bought it as a casting ( so NOT a pretty-penny, in this case) - but then packed it away, as we were moving home. It was only when you and Jeff showed us those long trains of pairs of oxen - that I remembered the piece and dug it out.

It was a joy to paint - and has convinced me to order another 8 Oxen to tow my new 4.7" along. And I'm after a pair of those big "boiler-plate" wheels to make up an appropriate limber for it too, (very like that nice picture I fell for!). I'll be putting them in pairs on a stand (just like these) and connecting them up with chain to the yokes , just like the real thing - as and when I collect all of the parts together.



Pairs of figures are much more stable than single figures without a stand, and far easier to move around. - Lots of small singles are sometimes a nightmare to set up - and/or move.


Glad you like it - all the best for the New Year - jb

 

[blaster]

Hi JB, Luiz and all,

I am really enjoying and learning from this thread. Because of it, I have dusted off some oldie Mountford guns and a Scalelink mortar for further treatment. Painted all in basic green before finishing in bronze green? I was at the IWM London and saw a very nice 13 pdr and limber in a dark shiny green, with some parts in brass and the latches in silver (unpainted).

Rgds Victor

 

[Obee]

I was at the IWM London and saw a very nice 13 pdr and limber in a dark shiny green, with some parts in brass and the latches in silver (unpainted).

Rgds Victor

Victor,

that was the Néry gun on which three men of L Battery RHA were awarded the Victoria Cross for their services at Néry on 1st September 1914
Captain Edward Bradbury, Battery Sergeant-Major George Dorrell, and Sergeant David Nelson



I have painted a very nice set made by Tommy's War for a local collector and it was quite a thrill in seeing the original gun there in London.



Lest We Forget
John

 

[johnnybach]

Hi JB, Luiz and all,

I am really enjoying and learning from this thread. Because of it, I have dusted off some oldie Mountford guns and a Scalelink mortar for further treatment. Painted all in basic green before finishing in bronze green? I was at the IWM London and saw a very nice 13 pdr and limber in a dark shiny green, with some parts in brass and the latches in silver (unpainted).

Rgds Victor

View attachment 225394View attachment 225395View attachment 225396

I'm with you on the learning curve here Vic., some good stuff coming out. Speaking of good stuff - you have some really nice pieces there. I'll watch out for what you do with them at some point.

I'm dusting off a broken Britain's howitzer at the moment - which I fear is beyond repair at present, due to several missing parts - but the parts I have left should mean that it will be okay as a display only piece. It's a bit more modern than my Older big Howitzer and Naval 4.7" ( it has rubber tyres!), but it's furthering my Britain's Toy Soldier Artillery collection, at least. jb

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Hi Victor,

Great idea...this theme is addictive....{sm4}{sm4}{sm4}
Great 18 pdr you have there......not to mention the howitzer and the huge mortar......fantastic add ons to your WW1 collection...
I do not have a mortar that big, is it French?
Attached are some pics of a built 13 and 18 pdrs....will look for one of the howitzer and send also.....keep it up! Great findings, you had gold in your cabinet and did not know....
Cheers
Luiz

Hi JB, Luiz and all,

I am really enjoying and learning from this thread. Because of it, I have dusted off some oldie Mountford guns and a Scalelink mortar for further treatment. Painted all in basic green before finishing in bronze green? I was at the IWM London and saw a very nice 13 pdr and limber in a dark shiny green, with some parts in brass and the latches in silver (unpainted).

Rgds Victor

View attachment 225394View attachment 225395View attachment 225396

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Hi Victor a few more pics to give you some idea to the sets final touch....
John Eden, from Roseminiatures can supply you with garrisons for all three pieces and as many as you want, so that, different from the sets sold by the manufacturers you can add to the piece the correct number of soldiers that are needed to garrison the gun...
Cheers
Luiz

Hi JB, Luiz and all,

I am really enjoying and learning from this thread. Because of it, I have dusted off some oldie Mountford guns and a Scalelink mortar for further treatment. Painted all in basic green before finishing in bronze green? I was at the IWM London and saw a very nice 13 pdr and limber in a dark shiny green, with some parts in brass and the latches in silver (unpainted).

Rgds Victor

View attachment 225394View attachment 225395View attachment 225396

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Hi Victor,

A couple more ideas....this time, a howitzer section in action.
The line up is made by a Mountford howitzer followed by a Britains one and finally a Mountford one just like yours....then at the back two smaller Britains howitzers...
Cheers
Luiz

Hi JB, Luiz and all,

I am really enjoying and learning from this thread. Because of it, I have dusted off some oldie Mountford guns and a Scalelink mortar for further treatment. Painted all in basic green before finishing in bronze green? I was at the IWM London and saw a very nice 13 pdr and limber in a dark shiny green, with some parts in brass and the latches in silver (unpainted).

Rgds Victor

View attachment 225394View attachment 225395View attachment 225396

 

[blaster]

Victor,

that was the Néry gun on which three men of L Battery RHA were awarded the Victoria Cross for their services at Néry on 1st September 1914
Captain Edward Bradbury, Battery Sergeant-Major George Dorrell, and Sergeant David Nelson

View attachment 225400

I have painted a very nice set made by Tommy's War for a local collector and it was quite a thrill in seeing the original gun there in London.

View attachment 225401

Lest We Forget
John

Hi John,

Thanks for that clear shot. I didn't realize that it was THAT gun. I had only so much time and was whizzing thru the IWM.

I notice that the coils of rope(?) on the barrel were painted white. What are they meant for and in wartime, would they have been left in their natural colour?

Rgds Victor