Britains 4.7" Naval Gun (1 Viewer)

[blaster]

Hi Victor,
I saw this dio and immediately remembered of you......good idea for your large British Mortar...

Hi Luiz,

Just saw this and THANKS for the pic. Yes, that will do very nicely....


Best rgds,

Victor

 

[Buster]

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It's coming along great jb, shaping up to be a real centerpiece for your display cabinet.

Have to agree with your remark of "boiler-plate" wheels on the 4.7 gun and limber, they really do make the set "pop". And pairing up the oxen on bases was a good move too, even though I slightly prefer the look of no bases, moving LL wagon sets that have 4 - 6 or even 8 oxen w/o bases can be quite "fiddly". {eek3}^&grin

B.

 

[johnnybach]

It's coming along great jb, shaping up to be a real centerpiece for your display cabinet.

Have to agree with your remark of "boiler-plate" wheels on the 4.7 gun and limber, they really do make the set "pop". And pairing up the oxen on bases was a good move too, even though I slightly prefer the look of no bases, moving LL wagon sets that have 4 - 6 or even 8 oxen w/o bases can be quite "fiddly". {eek3}^&grin

B.

It certainly will be a great piece on one of my shelves - as it will just fit right across. Glad you like the extra big wheels too which as usual came from Dorset. As soon as I saw the picture of a set with those big wheels on a limber - I was sold on them!

Bases are always a bit subjective - but on balance I prefer to have them, than not. They keep figures with thin bits ( such as legs) much safer from accidental damage - and, as you correctly write - are much less "fiddley" to set up, clean or move. We also "put up" with Toy Soldiers on bases without a murmer of dissent (for very practical reasons), so it always slightly puzzles me when owners say they don't like bases on animals? I "fix up" many such old equestrian figures with breakages - and unless they are super-rare - I usually give them a stand - which certainly firms them up - and helps protect them from future accidents a lot more than they were without one.

My oxen are only ever going to pull things in pairs - so (to me) it made sense to pair them on a single base. Once I adjust the chains correctly - the whole set can be in or out of my cabinet in ten seconds flat.

You may have noticed that now that equestrian figures have become quite expensive to buy from most decent manufacturers nowadays, very few of them allow those figures to leave their premises without a good strong stand. They've also got the message about potential breakages. And if purchasers don't like them that way - it doesn't take long to remove them (IF they're brave enough).

Glad you like how it's progressing - I'll post further developments from time to time. jb:salute::

 

[theBaron]

I'm with you regarding bases, John. I especially like providing stability for pieces that might otherwise tip over.

I'll even add a wider base to a casting that already has one. For example, Gammage cast some of his figures with an integral rectangular base. But it's so narrow front to back, that the figure would tip over at the slightest bump to the shelf. Some older Tradition castings have a similar base. I'll attach those to a wider square base, for stability. I've got some civilian pieces by Sanderson, Hecker & Goros, and others, too, that were intended to be inserted into a diorama, so, they are cast with no base. I have to add bases for them, and I can make them relatively uniform.

I've also dressed some bases up with a little putty for ground work, where appropriate.

Prost!
Brad

 

[johnnybach]

I'm with you regarding bases, John. I especially like providing stability for pieces that might otherwise tip over.

I'll even add a wider base to a casting that already has one. For example, Gammage cast some of his figures with an integral rectangular base. But it's so narrow front to back, that the figure would tip over at the slightest bump to the shelf. Some older Tradition castings have a similar base. I'll attach those to a wider square base, for stability. I've got some civilian pieces by Sanderson, Hecker & Goros, and others, too, that were intended to be inserted into a diorama, so, they are cast with no base. I have to add bases for them, and I can make them relatively uniform.

I've also dressed some bases up with a little putty for ground work, where appropriate.

Prost!
Brad

I'm with you on "sometimes" adding larger bases to otherwise unstable figures - BUT - with some exceptions, Brad.

As an example, I recently had a number of figures by the French maker Lucotte arrive in a job-lot. True, they were incomplete or otherwise damaged figures - but I repaired them using parts which were unattainable from the original maker - so they were no longer originals. The bases on these figures are incredibly narrow, and even after repairing them - they are still a little unstable.

Now, these are my ONLY Lucottes - and given the prices being asked for new painted figures from this manufacturer, they are likely to remain my only ones. So...........given that - I wanted to keep them as original as I possibly could - which includes keeping their distinctive narrow bases.

( I found that unpainted castings - or spare parts are definitely NOT available. They are only interested in selling expensive painted figures - as is their right, of course). But............not to me!

I think maybe that the same thing would apply if I were ever to pick up a real Courtney Knight (for another example), or some other rareity. I would like to keep them as original as possible.

Kapish amigo? jb

 

[johnnybach]

I have now completed all of the oxen - and re-jigged the chain links between each pair. Each pair can now be quickly disconnected from the pair immediately behind - so moving the piece now means just disconnecting the Gun, which just hooks off - and then each pair can also be unhooked from their rear pair ( except for the first two, which I have linked to the limber permanently).

I'm still waiting for some more spare parts to complete the set ( mostly marching RA Gunners dressed as my one repaired Britains figure below). So, having a few Infantry in Foreign Service (FS) helmets available, I have begun painting them up - to serve as an armed escort to the RA, whilst moving the gun across potentially hostile country.

Here's a few pics to show how things are progressing. You can see some of my completed Infantry marching alongside the weapon - with rifles at the trail. Note the Company Sergeant Major (CSM) accompanying the men, disdaining to carry a rifle - but with pace stick firmly in hand. Also marching is an RA Gunner (must change the colour of that base!), whilst two of his mates have the rather dubious pleasure of riding the limber. No sprung suspension for them! No doubt the nearness of the Infantry CSM has encouraged them to sit to attention.

So....just a few more bits and pieces - plus a donkey and handler and five more Infantry (which I'm currently painting), and some Native Drovers and seven more Gunners to go (currently AWOL) - and we'll be done with, for me, this rather grand set.

I'm now trying to figure out what has to move where - before they can all find a home in one of my cabinets????^&confuse Which is a rather nice problem to have{sm4}, I must admit. jb

 

[theBaron]

I'm with you on "sometimes" adding larger bases to otherwise unstable figures - BUT - with some exceptions, Brad.

As an example, I recently had a number of figures by the French maker Lucotte arrive in a job-lot. True, they were incomplete or otherwise damaged figures - but I repaired them using parts which were unattainable from the original maker - so they were no longer originals. The bases on these figures are incredibly narrow, and even after repairing them - they are still a little unstable.

Now, these are my ONLY Lucottes - and given the prices being asked for new painted figures from this manufacturer, they are likely to remain my only ones. So...........given that - I wanted to keep them as original as I possibly could - which includes keeping their distinctive narrow bases.

( I found that unpainted castings - or spare parts are definitely NOT available. They are only interested in selling expensive painted figures - as is their right, of course). But............not to me!

I think maybe that the same thing would apply if I were ever to pick up a real Courtney Knight (for another example), or some other rareity. I would like to keep them as original as possible.

Kapish amigo? jb

Oh, sure. I'm not talking about restorations of such pieces. I mean when building a kit figure, or when reworking old figures as you do. No, I would not change something like a Lucotte, or a Courtenay, either, not in any such substantial way. That wouldn't be kosher (completing our three-culture hat trick!)

Prost!
Brad

 

[johnnybach]

Oh, sure. I'm not talking about restorations of such pieces. I mean when building a kit figure, or when reworking old figures as you do. No, I would not change something like a Lucotte, or a Courtenay, either, not in any such substantial way. That wouldn't be kosher (completing our three-culture hat trick!)

Prost!
Brad

Shalom and hasta la vista baby! jb

 

[johnnybach]

Here's the whole platoon of British Infantry escorts ( on foreign Service [FS]), who will accompany the gun on it's journey. Still waiting for more spares to complete the rest of the set. jb

(NB: all originally Dorset Model Soldier castings).

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Great!
It is coming out as a major project.
Cheers
Luiz

Here's the whole platoon of British Infantry escorts ( on foreign Service [FS]), who will accompany the gun on it's journey. Still waiting for more spares to complete the rest of the set. jb

(NB: all originally Dorset Model Soldier castings).

 

[johnnybach]

Great!
It is coming out as a major project.
Cheers
Luiz

Yes, it's surprising how this project has grown as it has developed from the fixing up of an early Britains model 4.7", so that I could tow it behind my Steam Tractor. I now have two of these guns - and thanks to some more info from a mutual friend in Oz the idea of a team of oxen pulling the second one seemed to take root, somehow! I even learned how to make some limbers!

Then of course, another Gent with an enormous herd of these beasts posted a pic - and that was it - I became besotted with another idea, guaranteed to upset my Bank Manager (again!).

I'm currently painting up a repaired Britains mule to carry the ammo for the palatoon of british infantry, who will provide the Escort to The RA men ( still Awol) who will crew this weapon. then there's the native Drovers - who appear to be as Awol as the RA.

My water barrel with another pair of oxen is topped up and waiting to go with them as well, however - along with the Mounted RA Officer and his three trusty men - who are champing at the bit - and ready to go too.

Glad you like it ........so far..... jb

Yes - it's certainly grown alright - but in a very nice way.

Cheers Luiz - jb

 

[johnnybach]

It's been a while - but I have finally got some spare parts to go towards completing this set. ( Parts from Dorset Model Soldiers).

Below, see some pics - showing the Telescopic sight fitted to my 4.7" gun. The original mounting was snapped off - but I fitted a small plate to the trail, just inside the wheel - with a pin set into it. This fitted exactly to the hole cast into the sight (behind the wheel - so can't be seen). This allows the sight to pivot - and poke through the Gun-shield.

The donkey is also shown - and I'm still working out how best to mount two small-arms ammunition cases - so work in progress for those.

You may also be able to see my third RA Gunner seated on the limber - who has finally got the correct Foreign Service head with pugaree!! Hurrah!

Next come the two Native Drovers, which I have shown each side of the oxen - cracking their whips above them.

These were conversions of two Native Africans - who were originally carrying a pole between their raised arms which carried a dead leopard. Their bare heads were removed ( and went into my spares box), and were substituted by cowboy heads with wide brimmed hats, ( now painted as straw hats). Neckscarves were courtesy of Milliput - and the whips were modelled out of thick copper electrical wire, suitably stripped of the insulating plastic material. I had to increase the footprint of the original base - by attaching another - as the figures were found to be a little unstable.

I'm currently painting the six extra RA Gunners, who will be also walking alongside the gun - no doubt waiting their turn to have a seat on the limber. So.......just a few more to add - and my project will be complete at last. jb

 

[Ivanhoe]

It's been a while - but I have finally got some spare parts to go towards completing this set. ( Parts from Dorset Model Soldiers).

Below, see some pics -

jb; Your paint jobs and finishing of animals just amazes me !

One of my 'joys' of this Forum is viewing your work.

Thank you again.

 

[DMNamiot]

Very Cool display!

 

[theBaron]

It's good to see an update on this one, John! I like those native drivers, that's a great conversion!

This thing's going to need a shelf all its own, when you've finished and are ready to add it to your displays.

Prost!
Brad

 

[johnnybach]

It's good to see an update on this one, John! I like those native drivers, that's a great conversion!

This thing's going to need a shelf all its own, when you've finished and are ready to add it to your displays.

Prost!
Brad

Sorry for the delay - awaiting parts is always a problem - but with lots of patience, we usually get there in the end. I looked long and hard at quite a few castings - but again, got there with a bit of help from Andy, at Dorset model Soldiers, who suggested the Cowboy head!:salute::

The whole set has already got a shelf, Brad (made to measure ) - and once it's completed, and with everything in place - I'll take a pic of it and show it here.

Glad you approve. jb

 

[johnnybach]

At long last, I can say that my 4.7" Gun, Crew and Ancillaries are complete.

Apologies first for my Flash photographs - which aren't great - but at least shows all of the parts. I decided on Royal Artillery personnel - early on in the project - just because I liked the uniforms. I gave them an armed escort of Infantry - and a Mule carrying some ammo . The driving power is an eight oxen team - kept moving by a couple of drovers ( which fits my cabinet shelf perfectly ), whilst another two oxen tow a large Water barrel - because everyone is bound to get thirsty on this job. My thanks go to Andy at Dorset Model Soldiers for all of the parts and figures and help and advice. The results are shown below.

Here's an overall pic - which shows all of the pieces, and how I choose to display them:



Getting in a bit closer - shows Gun end - and then Oxen end - with limber and 3 RA Gunners riding. Note the remainder of the gun-team now walking alongside their gun. The mule with two ammo boxes is towards the rear, whilst the Infantry escort here is spaced out along the length of the train.



The RA Officer is towards the front end - behind the towed water barrel. Note also my two Native drovers cracking their whips above the oxen.



In this view - I've gathered most of the human element and kept them all in the picture along with the gun - just as a change.



And finally - here's a pic of the whole thing, and how it is displayed on a shelf in one of my cabinets - along with my Steam Tractor towing another big gun - with my other 4.7" - which also fits the tractor and limber at the rear of the shelf. (my apologies for my other gun and limber on glass shelf above, as I was so concerned getting everything in shot - I forgot to move it!).

So.......that's it for now with this project - hope it's been worth the wait for you - it certainly has been - for me. jb

 

[theBaron]

OUT-standing!

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Johnny

Totally love the display it’s got imagination and depth that really pop! The native drivers with the whips keeping the oxen moving is a really good touch! Thanks for sharing so many details and your thoughts as you brought this one back to life! Now we need a musical ride with all your lancers, guards and hussars to help celebrate the queens jubilee

Dave:salute::

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Johnny

Totally love the display it’s got imagination and depth that really pop! The native drivers with the whips keeping the oxen moving is a really good touch! Thanks for sharing so many details and your thoughts as you brought this one back to life! Now we need a musical ride with all your lancers, guards and hussars to help celebrate the queens jubilee

Dave:salute::

So many people to thank for ideas on this one Dave. I first had a gun to repair. Then - I saw Obee painting a Steam Tractor for Luiz (Artillery Crazy) - and I just had to have one too. Then I found another gun - and GICOP showed me all of his Oxen (sixteen of 'em{eek3} and drovers too) - and that set me off down that path. Then Obee again advised that they would require an armed escort! - so off I went on that idea too.

All of the parts came from Dorset Model Soldiers - either in whole -or bits and pieces - so thanks also go to Andy for those. So.....thanks guys for all of your inputs.

Musical ride ......................I'll wait for my Mounted Life Guard Band in State Uniform - to provide the music first Dave - and then I will order that troops will muster for parade.

I have been promised them for this Xmas, (though that did happen once before - and never did!) - BUT THIS time, I think they will turn up. They have been ordered.

So...........maybe next spring?? ( I'll have to assemble and paint 20 figures).

Cheers all - jb