Britains 4.7" Naval Gun (2 Viewers)

[blaster]

I'm with you on the learning curve here Vic., some good stuff coming out. Speaking of good stuff - you have some really nice pieces there. I'll watch out for what you do with them at some point.

I'm dusting off a broken Britain's howitzer at the moment - which I fear is beyond repair at present, due to several missing parts - but the parts I have left should mean that it will be okay as a display only piece. It's a bit more modern than my Older big Howitzer and Naval 4.7" ( it has rubber tyres!), but it's furthering my Britain's Toy Soldier Artillery collection, at least. jb

I saw your restored howitzer and tractor. Wow!

I did see a Britains 9.2 howitzer for sale at the London toy soldier stall for 40 quid. Hefty beast. As I didn't have that kind of loose change on me, I opted out.

Rgds
Victor

 

[blaster]

Hi Victor,

A couple more ideas....this time, a howitzer section in action.
The line up is made by a Mountford howitzer followed by a Britains one and finally a Mountford one just like yours....then at the back two smaller Britains howitzers...
Cheers
Luiz

Hello Luiz,

Your artillery collection is overwhelming, like a heavy barrage...

I have further painted my guns in a darker green and weathered them slightly. These will be placed in my redux displays until I come up with the idea of using them in separate vignettes.

I also have a German 250mm howitzer (Mountford) but the scale is too small for 1/32. FYI, the Trench mortar is classified as 1/35 in the supplied instruction manual. Hence I will probably knock up my own figures, adjusting their size depending on which gun will be deployed, using Scalelink/Airfix mixed media conversions.

For the trench mortar, there are 4 handles at the base. Are these meant for the gunners to manually push/pull to rotate the direction of the barrel?

Rgds Victor

 

[Obee]

I notice that the coils of rope(?) on the barrel were painted white. What are they meant for and in wartime, would they have been left in their natural colour?

Rgds Victor

Victor,

the coil of rope in on the recuperator, not the barrel, which lies beneath it.

The rope was painted white on parade guns and in peacetime, but in wartime it was left as natural colour of rope, so a light buff/brown. It was also painted camouflage as well.

Seeing that the Nery Gun was used in the first month of the war, I could assume that the coiled rope was still white, like what we see at the IWM.

I have attached some images from the Australian War memorial of 18 Pounder, as similar gun to the 13 pounder used by the RHA.


RHA 13 Pdr from IWM in Melbourne in 2015


18 Pdr AWM Canberra


18 Pdr on display in Canberra airport 2015

John

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Hi Victor,

Thanks for the notes...Yes you can say that I am an Artillery Crazy...and have Obee as my mentor....:salute:::salute::
Note that Obee and I, we are literally half the world apart....where we to be next door, our collections would rival the Imperial War Museum {sm4}{sm4}

As to your question regarding the 4 handles at the base of the mortar, these were used by 4 men to lift the mortar and move it along to different locations, and I assume rotate the tube on its axis while on a firing position.... ( different from the Krauts...they did not come with a wheeled carriages....Need Prussian engineers to ring that one in...{sm3}{sm3}) ..so the poor guys had to hand lift the heavy tube, and then you would need a couple more men to lift the heavy wooden base ( it did not go attached to the tube base..{sm2}{sm2})...
Great nice projects you have on hand. Keep us updated as you get the three pieces completed...I agree with you the best way to complement the pieces with garrisons will be to use Scalelink or Arfix ( latter needs a bit more scratch building )....

I am currently travelling so I have not had a chance to publish my recent set....I call it " The Lazarus Battery" and it is made up of one Heavy WW1 Austrian Mortar and two fantastic German WW1 42 mm Morsers....all with a correct complement of artillery garrison! All thanks to Obee´s guidance.

Cheers

Luiz

Hello Luiz,

Your artillery collection is overwhelming, like a heavy barrage...

I have further painted my guns in a darker green and weathered them slightly. These will be placed in my redux displays until I come up with the idea of using them in separate vignettes.

I also have a German 250mm howitzer (Mountford) but the scale is too small for 1/32. FYI, the Trench mortar is classified as 1/35 in the supplied instruction manual. Hence I will probably knock up my own figures, adjusting their size depending on which gun will be deployed, using Scalelink/Airfix mixed media conversions.

For the trench mortar, there are 4 handles at the base. Are these meant for the gunners to manually push/pull to rotate the direction of the barrel?

Rgds Victor

View attachment 225561

 

[theBaron]

...the coil of rope in on the recuperator, not the barrel, which lies beneath it.

The rope was painted white on parade guns and in peacetime, but in wartime it was left as natural colour of rope, so a light buff/brown. It was also painted camouflage as well...

But what was the purpose of the rope? Was it used to maneuver or man-handle the piece, as in earlier generations, and that was the place decided to stow the rope? Or did it have some other purpose?

Prost!
Brad

 

[johnnybach]

I saw your restored howitzer and tractor. Wow!

I did see a Britains 9.2 howitzer for sale at the London toy soldier stall for 40 quid. Hefty beast. As I didn't have that kind of loose change on me, I opted out.

Rgds
Victor

Yes - the Britains 18" Howitzer generally speaking - starts at that sort of money - and I've seen boxed near mint examples go for in excess of £100 on e-bay. I don't really want to spend that sort of money - and I prefer to paint my own anyway (as tht's my hobby) - so my restored gun was a re-built piece - using two "job-lot" parts to combine into what you can see in that thread. It therefore cost me a darned sight less than the one you mention. The limber was also mostly scratch built - the wheels coming from a Britains, broken farm-Cart.

My 4.7" Naval Gun ( which was originally the subject of this thread - in case you're wondering^&grin), was also a less than perfect specimen, in need of some TLC and a paint-job.

Glad you like 'em. jb

 

[Obee]

But what was the purpose of the rope? Was it used to maneuver or man-handle the piece, as in earlier generations, and that was the place decided to stow the rope? Or did it have some other purpose?

Prost!
Brad

Brad,

from what I know the rope is used to cover the recoil system and protect it from damage because with the 13 and 18 pounders the recoil system is situated above the barrel.

Drag Ropes are used on this gun, but they are coiled and held on the front of the shield as seen in the next picture of mine:



King's Troop, RHA - June 2014 - Royal Salute for Prince Phillip's Birthday - Hyde Park London

John

 

[theBaron]

Thanks, John! That's interesting, that no other method was used. But that was probably the most effective, for the materials on hand.

Prost!
Brad

 

[johnnybach]

Brad,

from what I know the rope is used to cover the recoil system and protect it from damage because with the 13 and 18 pounders the recoil system is situated above the barrel.

Drag Ropes are used on this gun, but they are coiled and held on the front of the shield as seen in the next picture of mine:

View attachment 225639

King's Troop, RHA - June 2014 - Royal Salute for Prince Phillip's Birthday - Hyde Park London

John

I've read somewhere that it was asbestos rope, to help insulate the recuperator from the heat generated - from extended periods of firing - which thinned the oil in the recoil mechanism. This acted rather like lagging water pipes - except that the heat came from outside (i.e, the barrel underneath the recuperator). jb

 

[theBaron]

I've read somewhere that it was asbestos rope, to help insulate the recuperator from the heat generated - from extended periods of firing - which thinned the oil in the recoil mechanism. This acted rather like lagging water pipes - except that the heat came from outside (i.e, the barrel underneath the recuperator). jb

Insulation makes sense, and that was something I wondered about, though I was wondering if it might not be used to allow the crew to handle the piece as heat built up. Similar to the Faustriemen the Prussians used on their muskets, a piece of leather wrapped around the barrel where the left hand supported it, to insulate the hand against the heat built up with repeated firing.

Prost!
Brad

 

[blaster]

Victor,

the coil of rope in on the recuperator, not the barrel, which lies beneath it.

The rope was painted white on parade guns and in peacetime, but in wartime it was left as natural colour of rope, so a light buff/brown. It was also painted camouflage as well.

Seeing that the Nery Gun was used in the first month of the war, I could assume that the coiled rope was still white, like what we see at the IWM.

I have attached some images from the Australian War memorial of 18 Pounder, as similar gun to the 13 pounder used by the RHA.

View attachment 225562
RHA 13 Pdr from IWM in Melbourne in 2015

View attachment 225563
18 Pdr AWM Canberra


View attachment 225564
18 Pdr on display in Canberra airport 2015

John

Hello John,

Thanks for your insight and pics. It really helps me to visualize the technical details and colours.

Rgds Victor

 

[blaster]

Hi Victor,

Thanks for the notes...Yes you can say that I am an Artillery Crazy...and have Obee as my mentor....:salute:::salute::
Note that Obee and I, we are literally half the world apart....where we to be next door, our collections would rival the Imperial War Museum {sm4}{sm4}

As to your question regarding the 4 handles at the base of the mortar, these were used by 4 men to lift the mortar and move it along to different locations, and I assume rotate the tube on its axis while on a firing position.... ( different from the Krauts...they did not come with a wheeled carriages....Need Prussian engineers to ring that one in...{sm3}{sm3}) ..so the poor guys had to hand lift the heavy tube, and then you would need a couple more men to lift the heavy wooden base ( it did not go attached to the tube base..{sm2}{sm2})...
Great nice projects you have on hand. Keep us updated as you get the three pieces completed...I agree with you the best way to complement the pieces with garrisons will be to use Scalelink or Arfix ( latter needs a bit more scratch building )....

I am currently travelling so I have not had a chance to publish my recent set....I call it " The Lazarus Battery" and it is made up of one Heavy WW1 Austrian Mortar and two fantastic German WW1 42 mm Morsers....all with a correct complement of artillery garrison! All thanks to Obee´s guidance.

Cheers

Luiz

Hi Luiz,

Lazarus - ahh waking the dead...

Thanks for that. I can visualize a scene where my gunners are pushing on the handles to turn the direction of the trench mortar.

Rgds Victor

 

[blaster]

Yes - the Britains 18" Howitzer generally speaking - starts at that sort of money - and I've seen boxed near mint examples go for in excess of £100 on e-bay. I don't really want to spend that sort of money - and I prefer to paint my own anyway (as tht's my hobby) - so my restored gun was a re-built piece - using two "job-lot" parts to combine into what you can see in that thread. It therefore cost me a darned sight less than the one you mention. The limber was also mostly scratch built - the wheels coming from a Britains, broken farm-Cart.

My 4.7" Naval Gun ( which was originally the subject of this thread - in case you're wondering^&grin), was also a less than perfect specimen, in need of some TLC and a paint-job.

Glad you like 'em. jb

Hi JB,

Besides the Britains model, I know of two other 9.2inch howitzers models from the following: - Fusilier Miniatures and Grey Goose. But they are supplied fully painted. I also don't know the accuracy of either model. Ahh well....sigh.

Rgds Victor

 

[johnnybach]

Hi JB,

Besides the Britains model, I know of two other 9.2inch howitzers models from the following: - Fusilier Miniatures and Grey Goose. But they are supplied fully painted. I also don't know the accuracy of either model. Ahh well....sigh.

Rgds Victor

I have just won what looks like another Britains 4.7" Naval Gun on e-bay. Description is a bit vague - and the barrel has been broken in two (from the single photo). My thinking was - that if it is a Britains, I could maybe use some parts (like the Wheels) to make up a limber on my other one. However, if it is the later version with gunshield, I might try and restore it. I do Toy Soldiers - so accuracy is NOT a major issue with me. I don't know, or really care, how many rivets are on a real one.

Win-win either way - as it came with another six (smaller) guns anyway - for a very reasonable price. jb

 

[johnnybach]

Here's a pic of my latest e-bay lot ( just arrived in the post), as found - which includes a broken Britains 4.7" Naval Gun. And it IS the later version of the gun - which includes a Gunshield ( see pic below ). Just as nice for me - are a couple of the Brothers Benbros Field Guns ( with black painted wheels) - which aren't that common - and also a couple of Britains' cannons ( as well as two plastic unmarked cannons ).

[Here's a link to a Benbros information site: http://www.diecastvintagetoys.co.uk/zebra-field-gun?lightbox=image_16b7 ].

My thoughts are, now that I have the Naval Gun in hand, that it IS restorable - so won't be dismantling the wheels for use on a limber.

As I like the old British toys so much - I'll also strip and repaint the others too, thereby increasing my Artillery complement of my collection.

How nice.

 

[johnnybach]

Just to clarify my earlier remark of "Two Britains Cannons" - which came with my earlier lot.

Doing a little more research about them - I found that they are described as "Small Britains Gun No.1263" - representing a 12 pounder light field gun?

I found a pic of such a gun online, which seems to be like this RHG 12pounder circa.1897 ( Second Boer War). There is no gunshield evident on this weapon - but maybe this addition to the model, was made by Britains as a bit of "artistic license".

 

[DMNamiot]

I will go and check my britains book and see if I can find a photo of the one in question.

Great pick up by the way! Wonder what they were doing to shatter that gun tube like that must have been a great day in the garden fight off a hun invasion...

Dave

 

[johnnybach]

I will go and check my britains book and see if I can find a photo of the one in question.

Great pick up by the way! Wonder what they were doing to shatter that gun tube like that must have been a great day in the garden fight off a hun invasion...

Dave

Thanks Dave - it would be nice if they can expand a bit on the small field gun.

The 4.7" - might just have been dropped? Now I have put it back together ( with some epoxy resin glue - and a tiny bit of milliput for the seam), I can see that the muzzle end that bells out slightly, is missing. Looks like another milliput job to replace that. I also made sure, that the barrel is still clear of any glue and stuff - so it will still be able to shoot! (not that I will use this feature).

The telescopic gunsight is also missing in action - but I think Dorset may be able to help me out with that.

Cheers for now Dave - :salute:: jb

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Hi JB,
Your picture is of a very nice sample of a RHA 12 pdr of the late 1890´s as you have mentioned. The garrison is wearing the traditional RHA Cerimonial Uniforms as they were by now in field khaki....
As to the lack of a gun shield you are right on the money.....{sm4}..it was a bit of Britains artistic licensing..guns at this time would not have a shield ( it was considered not gentelmany ... ) No guns had shield during the Boer Wars, reason why the high number of artillery personnel being shot servicing the guns....Shields began after the war and mainly for mountain guns...Only later towards the eve of WW1 did field guns get a shield to " barely" protect the garrison from small arms fire as they serviced the guns when in action....
Cheers
Luiz

Just to clarify my earlier remark of "Two Britains Cannons" - which came with my earlier lot.

Doing a little more research about them - I found that they are described as "Small Britains Gun No.1263" - representing a 12 pounder light field gun?

I found a pic of such a gun online, which seems to be like this RHG 12pounder circa.1897 ( Second Boer War). There is no gunshield evident on this weapon - but maybe this addition to the model, was made by Britains as a bit of "artistic license".

View attachment 225861

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Hi Victor,

It is more Bible Style.... risen from the dead kkkkk.....
Cheers
Luiz

Hi Luiz,

Lazarus - ahh waking the dead...

Thanks for that. I can visualize a scene where my gunners are pushing on the handles to turn the direction of the trench mortar.

Rgds Victor