Losses of Soviet and German armored vehicles in 1943. Kursk Bulge (1 Viewer)

Hi Guys.

In case anyone wants to see some nice pics of the real German heavy tanks.

It is sort of walk arund the ...

http://panzerw.narod.ru/gt.html

Cheers.

Myth of the Kursk Bulge Battle.
Fifty T-34s lost a battle against one Tiger I tank.



On July 8th, 1943, a Tiger tank commanded by Franz Staudegger took on fifty attacking T-34 tanks as the only armored vehicle on its side (though it did have infantry support), destroying twenty-seven enemy tanks and forcing the remainder to break off their attack and fall back. Staudegger’s Tiger then itself ran out of armor-piercing ammunition and retreated behind the lines, but it had stopped the Soviet attack....


Umm, so what? Once upon a time, there was a fight of 12 Tigers vs. a single T-34.

25th of January 1944.
Two German tank armies, the 1st and 8th, were trapped near Korsun and Cherkassy in Ukraine. They attempted to break out. The 64th Soviet Guards Tank Brigade was deployed near Tsybulev and Ivakhny villages. It had T-34 tanks mostly. The brigade was unfortunate enough to be on the escape path of the 16th German Tank Division under command of Col. Hans-Ulrich Back with many Tigers and Panthers.

It was their 6th attack for the day. The Soviet commander, Lt. Col. Alexander Burda, moved all his reserves to the front line near Tsybulev village. He was left with his T-34, a few trucks, a group of staff officers and an infantry platoon. He asked the headquarters of the 11th Guards Tank Corps to move his headquarters from Ivakhny elsewhere, but they were reluctant to give the permission. The Germans sent a company of twelve Tigers to flank the Soviets in both villages and cut the only road to Lukashovka, another village about 10km off. It was a matter of minutes for them to finish an encirclement of the brigade headquarters and a battalion of T-34s defending Tsybulev under command of Capt. Fedorenko. Lt. Col.

Burda ordered his staff officers to retreat to Lukashovka immediately with the documents and brigade banner. He stayed in the village to cover their retreat with a single T-34. It was a short fight, but he managed to knock out one Tiger and set another on fire while his T-34 was knocked out by a few hits. He was wounded mortally by a large spall to the belly. His comrades pulled him from the tank. It was unlikely for them to escape with a wounded commander. By a chance, a detachment of two tanks of the 40th Guards Tank Brigade also entered the village, picked up the crew and made their way to Lukashovka. Lt. Col. Burda died on the way to hospital.

He was an ace who knocked out 30 enemy tanks in WWII. He became a Hero of the Soviet Union posthumously. The battalion of Capt. Fedorenko also escaped. The Germans were defeated eventually and lost most of their heavy equipment. The 16th Tank Division was reduced to a regiment after the battle, though Back was promoted to major general by Hitler anyway.

P.S. There is an official version of this story full of many inconsistencies and propaganda.



What this story has to do with a fight of a single Tiger defeating 50 T-34 tanks.
Nothing except it’s real and that one is a product of Nazi propaganda.


The 8th of July 1943.
The village of Teterevino with the railway station was defended by panzergrenadiers of the 3rd Battalion of the 3rd SS “Deutschland” Regiment assigned to the 2nd SS Tank Division “Das Reich”. There was also a Tiger #1325 of SS-Unterscharführer Franz Staudegger undergoing minor repairs. This tank was assigned to the 13th Heavy Company of the 1st SS Tank Division “Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler”.

The village was attacked by the 26th Soviet Tank Brigade of the 2nd Tank Corps coming from north east. 34 T-34 medium tanks and 19 T-70 light tanks with an infantry support. You see, no 50 to 60 T-34s as Nazi propaganda claimed. The brigade was supposed also to be supported by 11 Mk IV Churchills of the 15th Guards Heavy Tank Regiment. However they came under an air attack and couldn’t participate. If they could, the battle outcome would be worse for the Germans.

So, the Soviet tanks attacked the German positions near the village. The panzergrenadiers knocked out two Soviet tanks before Staudegger engaged. According to his Knight’s Cross of the Iron Cross submission, he knocked out 17 Soviet tanks in one attack which took him 2 hours, and followed them to knock out 5 additional ones before running low on ammunition and fuel. The rest fled, so he also left the area. No doubt a nice story for the Wehrmachtbericht.

What really happened that the Soviet attack started at 14:00. The Soviet tanks of the 26th Tank Brigade pushed the Germans out of the village by 15:20. Werner Ostendorff, the Chief of Staff of the 2nd SS Panzer Corps, ordered a counter attack at 15:25. The “Das Reich” HQ reported 40 Soviet tanks with an infantry support going westwards from Teterevino at 15:30. How come 40 tanks? The brigade had 53 tanks originally and Staudegger claimed to have knocked out nearly half of them. The next report from the “Das Reich” HQ said the Soviet advance was halted, but they were preparing for another attack. The Soviets breached German defences on the left flank of the 3rd Battalion at 16:00. SS-Hauptsturmführer Helmuth Schreiber, the commander of the 10th Company, led a counter attack which routed the Soviets and took back the village in a bloody hand-to-hand combat.

The situation was unstable, so SS-Obersturmbannführer Hans Albin Freiherr von Reitzenstein, the commander of the 2nd Tank Regiment, was ordered to move from Kochetovka with his force of about 60 tanks to flank the Soviets near Teterevino at 17:00 (there were other Soviet troops advancing between Teterevino and Prokhorovka: the 169th and 99th Tank Brigades). The Soviets breached defences of the 2nd Battalion of the SS “Deutschland” Regiment at 17:50. 30 tanks of the 26th Soviet Tank Brigade attacked Teterevino again. The German counter attack was followed by an air strike of four wings of Junkers Ju.87 bombers and two wings of Henschel Hs.129 ground attack aircraft of the 8th Air Corps which scattered the Soviet tanks retreating to Prokhorovka (a major battle to be held there in 4 days - Battle of Prokhorovka).

By the end of day, the 26th Tank Brigade lost completely (burnt) 12 T-34s and 9 T-70s. 5 T-34s were damaged. 5 T-34s were battle ready. Location of 12 T-34s and 10 T-70s was unknown after the air strike. 26 killed, 35 wounded, 150 missing.

So, staff reports don’t confirm the story of Staudegger destroying and routing the whole Soviet tank brigade as it kept fighting for the rest of day. Their reported losses also don’t match the numbers claimed by Nazi propaganda.

Paul V. Bollotoff

tank said:

Hi Guys.

In case anyone wants to see some nice pics of the real German heavy tanks.

It is sort of walk arund the ...

http://panzerw.narod.ru/gt.html

Cheers.

Click to expand...

Great photos there, thanks!

Joe

joesgis said:

Great photos there, thanks!

Joe

Click to expand...

Hi Joe.

It is a pleasure.
Here are some American and British tanks pics.
In case you missed it.

http://panzerw.narod.ru/at.html

Kind Regards.
Serge.

tank said:

Hi Joe.

It is a pleasure.
Here are some American and British tanks pics.
In case you missed it.

http://panzerw.narod.ru/at.html

Kind Regards.
Serge.

Click to expand...

Hi Serge,
I did miss that one too.
Thank you kindly :smile2:
Joe

The Military Workshop said:

Forget WW2 and Afghanistan ! Let's get serious.

We all know that after the Communists took over that makes Russians the bad guys. How about pre WW1?

What I want to know is have the Russians ever made a decent cavalry charge ? The Brits showed how it was done with style and courage in The Charge of the Light Brigade during the Crimean War. Not only that they backed it up with a great poem and artworks. Then there is the Scots Greys at Waterloo and the Lancers at Omdurman. Then of course there is the Lighthorse at Beersheba.

Or is Tank only interested in Communist history ?

Click to expand...

Valley of two miles - redoubts not far ...
Hearing: “On the horses, forward!”,
Death Valley, under a barrage of buckshot,
The brave are jumping six hundred.
On the eve of hell is the cannonade,
Under the vents of the cannons are breasts -
But they race and race six hundred.


Alfred Lord Tennyson


Of all the battles during the woefully depressingly Crimean War, the light cavalry brigade attack was firmly imprinted in people imagination.
Immortalized in Tennison’s famous poem, the bold but ultimately catastrophic cavalry attack of the light cavalry brigade remains one of the most tragic mistakes in the annals of British military history.
Mostly this catastrophe was the result of the inept actions of the two aristocrats, Lords Lucan and Cardigan

On September 26, 1854, British-French and Turkish troops led by Britain captured the fishing village of Balaklava in Crimea, from where they intended to begin shelling and siege of Sevastopol. For a month Balaklava remained an arena of intense fighting.
On the morning of October 25 Russian attacked the British camp with large forces, and although the Allies repelled the first attack, the Russian cavalry captured several guns.

Then the commander of the British forces, General Fitzroy James Henry Somerset, 1st Baron Raglan, sent a dispatch to the cavalry commander, Lieutenant General George Bingham. He ordered the 3rd Earl Lucan “to quickly advance to the front line, pursuing the enemy, and prevent the enemy from taking the guns away“.
Lucan misinterpreted the order and instead of sending a light cavalry brigade under the command of Major General James Thomas Bradnell, 7th Earl of Cardigan, to pursue the retreating Russian troops, he sent Cardigan cavalry into a frontal attack.

The light cavalry brigade had to go along a well-fortified valley about two kilometers long with the Russians artillery pieces on both sides of the valley plus the russian artillery at the far end of the valley. A total of at least 30 russian guns were expected the enemy.

Shortly after 11 a.m., 670 cavalrymen from the light cavalry brigade, dressed in a dark blue uniform with a gold galloon and armed only with pikes and sabers, went to the narrow and long mountain valley, which Tennyson later dubbed the “Valley of Death." The next 20 minutes brought the cavalry immortality, and terrifying losses showed how vicious the British command system was.

Lords Lucan and Cardigan were the representatives of the aristocracy who bought their ranks. Due to the lack of military savvy, they condemned to death the light cavalry brigade.

The Lords had one more thing in common: hatred for each other carried through their lives. In all other circumstances, this would not be of particular importance; but by the time the army stood at Balaclava on October 25, 1854, Lucan was superior in rank to his relative, which irritated Cardigan very much. They quarreled constantly. Cardigan Deputy Lord George Paget expressed his feelings for the entire cavalry division when he disgustedly called them "two spoiled children."

They quarreled in the morning, since Cardigan did not pursue the retreating Russian cavalry, and Lucan did not give the order to pursue. If both had acted more decisively in order to return the captured guns, then this day could have ended differently for the British - and more specifically, for the light brigade.

When captain Louis Edward Nolan delivered the Lord Raglan’s order to Lucan, he was silently stared at Raglan’s order for the while and than asked Nolan for clarification of the order, Nolan rudely replied: “The order of Lord Raglan is that the cavalry must attack immediately.”
Outraged by Nolan’s arrogance, Lucan barked, “Attack, sir?” Attack what? What guns, sir? ”


Annoyed, Nolan waved his hand, and Lucan understood this so that he was pointing in the direction of the valley. Nolen said: “There, my lord, there is your enemy!
”These obscure and passionate words decided the fate of the light brigade.

When Lucan ordered Cardigan to attack Russian guns, Cardigan, restraining his irritation, coldly noticed him that the valley was a deadly trap. Lucan replied: “I know, but such is the order of Lord Raglan. There is no choice but to obey. ”


Cardigan saluted and galloped to his brigade, muttering: "Well, that’s the end of the last of the Bradnell."

The important thing was that the mutual hatred of these people ruled out any discussion that could clarify the order and save the light brigade. None of them thought about asking Raglan to confirm his order, which seemed to be ill-conceived or to be precise an insane.

A horn sounded, and Cardigan raised his sword. The light brigade began moving into the column in two, consisting of the 4th and 13th light dragoon regiments, the 17th ulan regiment, the 8th and 11th hussar regiments into the valley.
Russian batteries on both sides were in full readiness. The cannons were loaded with cores and buckshot. The left and right batteries were supported by several companies of Russian infantry, while cavalry Cossack regiments were waiting at the far end of the valley.


There was silence for a while. Only the leather saddles creaked and the harness tinkled.
The correspondent William Howard Russell of London Illustrated News described this as follows:


"Our cavalrymen proudly rushed past, their ammunition and weapons sparkled under the morning sun in all its splendor. We did not believe our eyes! Is this handful of people going to attack a whole army lined up in battle order?”

It was an indescribable massacre in a firestorm of fire and lead. Cores made holes in cavalry battle formations, buckshot slashed people like grass, and explosive shells left their bloody marks in the ranks of the advancing brigade.
Nevertheless, as noted by Woodham Smith, “the light brigade met death in perfect order,” closing the ranks when comrades died. Watching the battle from the heights, one battle-hardened veteran burst into tears, and the French general Pierre Bosquet uttered the famous phrase: “C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre: c'est de la folie ”(This is magnificent, but this is not war, but insanity).

When 100 meters were left before the Russian guns at the end of the valley, the bugler gave a signal to attack. The remains of the brigade pulled sabers from the sheath and raised the peaks. “We went into a thunderous gallop, shouting more like madmen than sane people,” one young officer recalled. At a distance of 70 meters, the Russian guns made the last volley and the first line of horsemen literally disappeared.

Jumping through the thick smoke, the second line of the remaining cavalry “brutally chopped down the gunners”. The Cossack cavalry started a counterattack and the brigade began to withdraw from the valley while the Russian guns continued their deadly harvest.
William Howard Russell noted: “there were no more British soldiers left in front of the ****ed Moscow guns, except for the dead and dying.”


The losses were terrifying. 332 horses lay dead along with 110 riders. 43 wounded horses had to be shot. 161 people were injured, and some of them later died from wounds and illnesses. 57 people were captured. In just 20 minutes, the light brigade, which included the best cavalrymen in Europe, ceased to exist.


Raglan blamed Lucan for everything, who was shamefully recalled back to England. Cardigan was first declared the hero of Balaclava.
Merchants who wished to take advantage of his fame even named a wool jacket in his honor, tailored allegedly to the model of the clothes that Cardigan wore during the campaign. The government report published in 1856 laid the blame on Lucan and Cardigan, stating that they “clumsy and incompetent" commanded light cavalry.
Officers and soldiers returning from the war told even more revealing stories.

The so-called “whitewashing commission” of several generals subsequently rehabilitated Lucan and Cardigan, but this did not help their reputation in society.

The Military Workshop said:

So I guess that means no good cavalry charges from the Russians.

Click to expand...

To be honest ... How shall I put it...

For some reasons I can’t see the beauty of that attack.
The death of the Light cavalry brigade was in vain.

To me this is a story about two arrogant idoiots who was the reason the great soldiers met they death for nothing in the valley by the fishing village of Balaklava in Crimea.

Cheers.
Tank

German Tank Kill Claims.


Battle of Kursk

The traditional Western narrative of the Battle of Kursk is that of vastly superior German tanks destroying scores of Soviet tanks at ranges of two to three kilometers before being overwhelmed and rammed to death by the Soviet masses. This version of the battle was written before Western authors had access to Soviet archives, and relied solely on German records. If used without any reservations it is clear how these records would give the impression that German tanks were superior to those of the Soviets.
It is no surprise that such claimed kill ratios would give the impression that the Battle of Kursk was a disaster for the Soviet tank forces, and that Germany came close to winning the battle. While the latter numbers include units outside the Kursk area, relatively little tank combat would have taken place on the other front sections. Even after the 50 percent reduction by the German High Command, however, the claims exceed the recorded Soviet losses.
The total strength is adjusted to account for double counting between the defensive and offensive operations. The losses include those tanks that were repaired after the battle. Despite that the German High Command's 50 percent reduction was supposed to account for those tanks that were repaired after the battle, the German High Command's reduced claims are still 34 percent higher than the actual losses before repaired Soviet tanks are subtracted.
In determining a ratio, it is also important to note that the German losses only include total write-offs, and not tanks that could be repaired. While no data is available specifically for the Kursk area from 5 July to 31 August, the numbers for the entire Eastern Front can be used on the assumption that the majority of the action took place within that area.
These numbers does not show how many reinforcement tanks were received. For example, an additional 71 Panthers were assigned to Eastern Front units from 5 July to 31 August. It also does not include those tanks repaired by field workshops. The decrease of 1712 tanks is therefore a very conservative estimate of German tank and assault gun losses comparable to Soviet losses. The actual ratio between the 6064 Soviet losses and the estimated 1712 German losses could therefore not have been greater than 3.5:1, and was likely significantly lower. This should be compared to the traditional claims of 14.1:1 if using the troop claims and 7.1:1 when using German High Command reduced claims. In other words, the overall German unit claims were at least four times as high as the actual losses.


Summary

As has been demonstrated above, the kill claims of German units cannot be trusted. When claims can exceed the actual losses by more than 300 percent, they cannot be considered credible as even a rough estimate of how many tanks the individual units destroyed. Thus, the number of kills attributed to German tanks aces and individual units must be considered as nothing more than the propaganda as which they were originally intended.

Please read full story at

https://panzerworld.com/german-tank-kill-claims

Tank mate, I'm currently working with a very cool bloke who was living near Cherbonyl during its historic melt down. He managed to escape the fall-out and eventually ended up living in NZ. What are you're thoughts about this incident and all the Russian military members who gave their lives to protect their countryman during this crisis?

Desertkiwi said:

Tank mate, I'm currently working with a very cool bloke who was living near Cherbonyl during its historic melt down. He managed to escape the fall-out and eventually ended up living in NZ. What are you're thoughts about this incident and all the Russian military members who gave their lives to protect their countryman during this crisis?

Click to expand...

Deadly feat of Chernobyl divers.

1986.
Experts believe that the reason for the unexpected accident at the Chernobyl Power Plant were tests conducted at nuclear power plants. As a result the situation at some point got out of control and the reactor began to melting. The first explosion occurred on April 26th of 1986. The second explosion was prevented at that time.


The explosion of the reactor caused an instant release of atomic energy what made the reactor start to melt.

Rescuers tried to isolate the damaged nuclear power plant instantly, but unfortunately the reactor continued to melt. A second, more powerful explosion and surge of energy was outlined. The melting rate was very fast and could not be stopped.

A damaged reactor was separated from the water tank with just one concrete slab. This plate was slowly starting to sag. The water and the molten reactor would serve as a massive explosive compound in power plant. The particles of the explosion could cover the whole Europe.


Rescuers developed a very risky plan. Three men had to go down to the reactor’s water-filled chamber, find the coolant valve and drain the water of the chamber. Unfortunately for the divers it would be a suicide mission as a fall into radioactive space meant - death.

Two engineers and shift supervisor A. Ananenko, B. Baranov and V. Bespalov volunteered to go down to the reactor and to do everything possible to drain the water.


Heroes went down to the radioactive pool. They made their way in almost complete darkness. Volunteers were able to achieve the goal, opened the valves and the water began to decline rapidly. When the men rose to the surface, they were greeted as heroes. So they were. After all, the second explosion did not sound and millions of lives were saved.

Nothing and no one could help the rescuers and within a few weeks, all three died.
They were buried in special coffins of lead.


"Make a movie about Hiroshima, but don’t mess with us."

The real Chernobyl Disaster liquidators reaction on the Chernobyl (miniseries)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_(miniseries)


The liquidators, of course, were offended by the inaccuracies in the movie. But it's not only that.
People who were going to do everything to save the country and the whole world, were exposed as the cogs of a totalitarian system. Apparently, this angered them the most.


Alexander Velikin, chairman of the regional Leningrad organization “Chernobyl Union”, told how he was exchange his impressions with the guys from Moscow, “ the words towards the movie director were mostly offensive.” - “I remember most of all the episode when a station employee in a white coat was kicked out to the roof to see if the reactor is really on fire. The station employee with tears in his eyes goes out onto the roof and he looks into the roof hole. And the same time next to him there’s a soldier in parade uniform with a gun.
I’m sorry but this is a complete nonsense. You just don’t want to wath this movie as you don’t want to upset yourself. "


Vladimir Karpekin, chairman of the Union of “Chernobyl Disaster Veterans”, admits, “the start of the film was amazing. I even had goosebumps, but then ...”


...” it’s like if I would start interfering with your family, saying that your bench is not in the right place and your table have to be moved to another place and that you are wearing the wrong uniform. That what the Americans do in that movie.”


“I called many members of the organization and asked them what do they think about the American Chernobyl movie. All of them told me this: we started to watch but than spat and forgot about that rubbish. I asked the liquidators if I should watch the movie? The reply was: Sure, watch it so you would know what they showed there.

"I’m a Russian man, an officer of the Soviet and Russian fleet and the chairman of a public organization ... How did American scriptwriters and directors would know what happened in Chernobyl? What did they know about that? Had they been there? Did they saw our guys to die? Did American scriptwriters and directors saw these lads who saved the Europe from radiation. Did they see as the helicopters were dropping the lead to the hole on the Power Plant roof?”

Who could allow this movie? The movie itself is a lie and and there's a purely Russophobic approach to the event. That was done to defame people who went to die for the rest of the World. Yes, The liquidators still are dying now... There’s some truth in the movie, but it is only 0.5% of everything that was shown in the film.

And who gave them the right to make that rubbish “Chernobyl" movie? Only participants of these events can tell the truth.
And the American scriptwriters and directors made a barbaric nonsense, not a film. "





Please note: most of the Chernobyl Disaster liquidators were volunteers.

I hope this answered your question.

Cheers.

Hey stop guys

Tank is like an old clock, when he stop, somebody here turn up the clock on a new subject and there he goes ...
Gents ! It's bad to tickle him, he could have a nervous breakdown ...

Tank, keep your strenght for the next sermon ...
It'was fun to read you
:salute::

Mirof said:

Hey stop guys

Tank is like an old clock, when he stop, somebody here turn up the clock on a new subject and there he goes ...
Gents ! It's bad to tickle him, he could have a nervous breakdown ...

Tank, keep your strenght for the next sermon ...
It'was fun to read you
:salute::

Click to expand...

http://www.yapfiles.ru/show/2282588/8531649bbcc422c0aa33ee3774402beb.mp4.html

"I was compelled to write this article by the following photograph:










It’s a famous photo. Georgia, August 8, 2008. After the
Georgian army’s defeat, its retreating forces regrouped and decided to return
to Gori, but encountered a Russian checkpoint.

One can see on the photo how a Russian Army soldier, with a
machine gun slung over his shoulder, stands in the path of Georgia’s motorized
infantry, whose officers threatened the machine-gunner in order to force him to
let them pass, only to hear “go f*** yourselves” in response. Members of the
media accompanying the column also tried to reason with the machine-gunner,
only to receive the same response. In the end the column turned around and returned
to whence it came. Foreign journalists later published an article with the
title “You don’t need 300, one is enough.”




What was the soldier thinking? What did he feel at that
moment? Was he not terrified? He probably was. Or maybe he was not hoping to
have children and grandchildren, or to live a long happy life. Of course he
hoped to.

Can you imagine a NATO soldier standing like that, with a
machine-gun against an enemy column?


I can’t. They value their lives too much. So what makes us
so? Why are we Russians different?

And why do foreigners consider us unpredictable madmen?

Photographs from other places visited by our soldiers
flashed before my eyes. The Slatina airport, the famous forced march of our
paratroopers into Pristina, to help our brothers, the Serbs.


200 Russian paratroops against NATO soldiers. What did they
feel, standing face to face with superior opposing forces? I think they felt
what our little soldier in Georgia did.

Donbass, Novorossia, 2014. Aleksandr Skriabin died as a
hero, attacking a tank with grenades. He was 54 years old, he worked at the
Talovsk coal mine as an equipment installer. He left behind a wife and two
daughters.

Were his feelings really any different from those
experienced by Aleksandr Matrosov, who covered the firing port of a German
pillbox with his own body?

The core of the matter lies not in fearlessness, or
indifference to what’s most valuable to us—our own lives. Then in what? I
started to look for answers.

Is there another nation which loves life and everything
related to it as desperately?

We live with open souls, with a hussar’s panache. We are the
ones to invite Gypsies and bears to weddings. It is us who are able to spend the
last of our money to throw a celebration, generously feed all the guests, and
wake up the next morning without a penny to our names. We can live as if every day in our lives was
the last. And there will be no tomorrow. There is only today.


All of our poems and songs are overflowing with love for
life, but only we know how to listen to them and cry.
Only our people has sayings like: “If you want to fall in
love, fall in love with a queen, if you want to steal, steal a million,” “who
doesn’t risk, doesn’t drink Champagne.” It’s the desire to drink from the cup
of life until it is empty, experience everything that can be experienced.


Then why do we, Russians, are able to part with life so
easily when looking the enemy in the eye?


It’s laid down in our historical memory, starting with the
time when the first aggressor set foot on our Russian soil. It has always been
like that. Since the beginning of time.


Only the chainmail and the helmets are different, spears
have been replaced by assault rifles. We have tanks and we have learned to fly.
But the memory remains the same. And it is activated whenever someone wants to
destroy or capture our home. The memory also bothers us when the weak are
abused.



How does it work? Alarm bells inside of us start ringing,
which only we can hear. The memory continues to ring until the uninvited guests
are expelled from our land.



Then the most important thing happens. Inside each one of us
a warrior awakens. Every one, from the meek to the powerful. This is what ties
us with invisible threads. Foreigners will not understand it. You have to BE
Russian, be BORN one.



When our land is in danger, or when somewhere on Earth
someone is being harmed, be in in Angola, Vietnam, or Ossetia, our snipers become
the most accurate and tankers—fireproof. Pilots become aces and recall such
unlikely feats as ramming attacks and stall tactics. Our reconnaissance
soldiers accomplish miracles, sailors become unsinkable, and infantry appears to
be composed of stalwart lead soldiers.



And every Russian, without exception, becomes a defender.
Even the oldest of men and the youngest of children. Recall the grandpa from
Novorossia, who fed the enemy with a jar of honey filled with explosive. That’s
a real story. We have a country full of such warriors.



Therefore anyone who expects to attack the Russians and to
find them waiting on bent knees, welcoming the invaders with loaves of bread
and flowers, will be sorely disappointed. They will see an entirely different
picture. I don’t think they will like it.



They will see our grandfathers, fathers, husbands, and
brothers. Behind them will be their mothers, wives, daughters. And behind them
will be the heroes of Afghanistan and Chechnya, the soldiers of the Great
Patriotic War and the First World War, the fighters from Kulikovo Field and the
Battle on the Ice.



Because we are Russians…God is with us!






Respected aleksa_piter wrote the following remarkable words:



“Let’s look at Bubnov’s painting “The Morning on the
Kulikovo Field.” Note the formation of the Russian regiments: the front rows
consist of elders, behind them are the younger generations, the young, healthy,
and strong warriors who represent the army’s main force. It’s an ancient,
Scythian combat order, a brilliant conception from the psychological point of
view. The first rows will be the first to perish when making contact with the
enemy, one might say they are suicide warriors since they are wearing white shirts
and have almost no armor. That’s where the saying “don’t get ahead of your dad
on the way to hell” comes from.



The elders are supposed to die before the eyes of their
grandsons, the fathers before the eyes of their sons, and their death will fill
the hearts of the young with battle frenzy, adding the element of personal
revenge. The word “revenge” [mest’] comes from the word “place” [mesto], it’s a
purely military term describing the young warrior taking place in formation
that was left empty by the killed elder.”

https://www.fort-russ.com/2015/04/why-russians-cannot-be-defeated/


https://twitter.com/marcelsardo/status/922515955330224129?lang=en

This is for your propaganda not fot the Russian peoples
Your people lived in fear under the yoke of a few, they are still there and I wish them the best for the future

Mirof said:

View attachment 255299
This is for your propaganda not fot the Russian peoples
Your people lived in fear under the yoke of a few, they are still there and I wish them the best for the future

Click to expand...

Don’t stop. Practice makes perfect.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwa_u_tFtQw&feature=emb_logo

Attack of the Dead Men Sabaton Unofficial Music Video



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2SlpHgeUK4&frags=pl,wn

tank said:

"I was compelled to write this article by the following photograph:










It’s a famous photo. Georgia, August 8, 2008. After the
Georgian army’s defeat, its retreating forces regrouped and decided to return
to Gori, but encountered a Russian checkpoint.

One can see on the photo how a Russian Army soldier, with a
machine gun slung over his shoulder, stands in the path of Georgia’s motorized
infantry, whose officers threatened the machine-gunner in order to force him to
let them pass, only to hear “go f*** yourselves” in response. Members of the
media accompanying the column also tried to reason with the machine-gunner,
only to receive the same response. In the end the column turned around and returned
to whence it came. Foreign journalists later published an article with the
title “You don’t need 300, one is enough.”




What was the soldier thinking? What did he feel at that
moment? Was he not terrified? He probably was. Or maybe he was not hoping to
have children and grandchildren, or to live a long happy life. Of course he
hoped to.

Can you imagine a NATO soldier standing like that, with a
machine-gun against an enemy column?


I can’t. They value their lives too much. So what makes us
so? Why are we Russians different?

And why do foreigners consider us unpredictable madmen?

Photographs from other places visited by our soldiers
flashed before my eyes. The Slatina airport, the famous forced march of our
paratroopers into Pristina, to help our brothers, the Serbs.


200 Russian paratroops against NATO soldiers. What did they
feel, standing face to face with superior opposing forces? I think they felt
what our little soldier in Georgia did.

Donbass, Novorossia, 2014. Aleksandr Skriabin died as a
hero, attacking a tank with grenades. He was 54 years old, he worked at the
Talovsk coal mine as an equipment installer. He left behind a wife and two
daughters.

Were his feelings really any different from those
experienced by Aleksandr Matrosov, who covered the firing port of a German
pillbox with his own body?

The core of the matter lies not in fearlessness, or
indifference to what’s most valuable to us—our own lives. Then in what? I
started to look for answers.

Is there another nation which loves life and everything
related to it as desperately?

We live with open souls, with a hussar’s panache. We are the
ones to invite Gypsies and bears to weddings. It is us who are able to spend the
last of our money to throw a celebration, generously feed all the guests, and
wake up the next morning without a penny to our names. We can live as if every day in our lives was
the last. And there will be no tomorrow. There is only today.


All of our poems and songs are overflowing with love for
life, but only we know how to listen to them and cry.
Only our people has sayings like: “If you want to fall in
love, fall in love with a queen, if you want to steal, steal a million,” “who
doesn’t risk, doesn’t drink Champagne.” It’s the desire to drink from the cup
of life until it is empty, experience everything that can be experienced.


Then why do we, Russians, are able to part with life so
easily when looking the enemy in the eye?


It’s laid down in our historical memory, starting with the
time when the first aggressor set foot on our Russian soil. It has always been
like that. Since the beginning of time.


Only the chainmail and the helmets are different, spears
have been replaced by assault rifles. We have tanks and we have learned to fly.
But the memory remains the same. And it is activated whenever someone wants to
destroy or capture our home. The memory also bothers us when the weak are
abused.



How does it work? Alarm bells inside of us start ringing,
which only we can hear. The memory continues to ring until the uninvited guests
are expelled from our land.



Then the most important thing happens. Inside each one of us
a warrior awakens. Every one, from the meek to the powerful. This is what ties
us with invisible threads. Foreigners will not understand it. You have to BE
Russian, be BORN one.



When our land is in danger, or when somewhere on Earth
someone is being harmed, be in in Angola, Vietnam, or Ossetia, our snipers become
the most accurate and tankers—fireproof. Pilots become aces and recall such
unlikely feats as ramming attacks and stall tactics. Our reconnaissance
soldiers accomplish miracles, sailors become unsinkable, and infantry appears to
be composed of stalwart lead soldiers.



And every Russian, without exception, becomes a defender.
Even the oldest of men and the youngest of children. Recall the grandpa from
Novorossia, who fed the enemy with a jar of honey filled with explosive. That’s
a real story. We have a country full of such warriors.



Therefore anyone who expects to attack the Russians and to
find them waiting on bent knees, welcoming the invaders with loaves of bread
and flowers, will be sorely disappointed. They will see an entirely different
picture. I don’t think they will like it.



They will see our grandfathers, fathers, husbands, and
brothers. Behind them will be their mothers, wives, daughters. And behind them
will be the heroes of Afghanistan and Chechnya, the soldiers of the Great
Patriotic War and the First World War, the fighters from Kulikovo Field and the
Battle on the Ice.



Because we are Russians…God is with us!






Respected aleksa_piter wrote the following remarkable words:



“Let’s look at Bubnov’s painting “The Morning on the
Kulikovo Field.” Note the formation of the Russian regiments: the front rows
consist of elders, behind them are the younger generations, the young, healthy,
and strong warriors who represent the army’s main force. It’s an ancient,
Scythian combat order, a brilliant conception from the psychological point of
view. The first rows will be the first to perish when making contact with the
enemy, one might say they are suicide warriors since they are wearing white shirts
and have almost no armor. That’s where the saying “don’t get ahead of your dad
on the way to hell” comes from.



The elders are supposed to die before the eyes of their
grandsons, the fathers before the eyes of their sons, and their death will fill
the hearts of the young with battle frenzy, adding the element of personal
revenge. The word “revenge” [mest’] comes from the word “place” [mesto], it’s a
purely military term describing the young warrior taking place in formation
that was left empty by the killed elder.”

https://www.fort-russ.com/2015/04/why-russians-cannot-be-defeated/


https://twitter.com/marcelsardo/status/922515955330224129?lang=en

Click to expand...

This post is just ridiculous......I have heard and read so many times such nationalistic,fanatic, schauvinistic, sovietic raves.....My friend, the russians are maybe good soldiers and good patriots,and often war criminals, but they are not so smart if during all their history they have never known democracy, not even nowadays...And always need to have a dictator's foot on their head{sm4}{sm4}{sm4}By the way, I see in your mind is the darkness of a war paranoia and the famous Soviet encirclement syndrome for which all foreigners are enemies ....I advice you to practice yoga meditation to get a contact with the reality that you have clearly lost....

Poppo said:

This post is just ridiculous......I have heard and read so many times such nationalistic,fanatic, schauvinistic, sovietic raves.....My friend, the russians are maybe good soldiers and good patriots,and often war criminals, but they are not so smart if during all their history they have never known democracy, not even nowadays...And always need to have a dictator's foot on their head{sm4}{sm4}{sm4}By the way, I see in your mind is the darkness of a war paranoia and the famous Soviet encirclement syndrome for which all foreigners are enemies ....I advice you to practice yoga meditation to get a contact with the reality that you have clearly lost....

Click to expand...

Hi.

This picture was the reason I post the article.
My intention was to tell you guys about the soldier on the picture.


Unfortunatelly I posted the article without reading it properly and doing that I made a mistake.
I have to thanks Mirof who pointed out to me that the article I posted was a pure propaganga.
I strongly believe that all of us should avoid to post any propaganda on this site as it designed for a historical discussion only.

So here is my sincere appologies to everyone who was offended by the post.

Tank.

Poppo said:

I see in your mind is the darkness of a war paranoia and the famous Soviet encirclement syndrome for which all foreigners are enemies ....

Click to expand...

Have a look at this post and it might would give you a clue why many Russians think so.



Foreigners serving in the Wehrmacht and SS troops

- just to take part in the “struggle against Bolshevism”.​

​

The number of European collaborators in the SS troops was 37,3 thousand people, and among them were Norwegians (3,8 thousand people), Danes (5 thousand people), and Flemings (5 thousand people. ), and also the Dutch (18,4 thousand people), as well as the Walloons (1,8 thousand people), and, of course, the French (2,4 thousand people), which the Germans themselves ranked as “Germans” during the war .

Oleg Romanko is the author of many interesting books about collaborators of World War II.

And here is another of his many books on this subject ...

The author of this book defended his thesis on this topic.​

Recall that the “German Volunteer” volunteers who lived in Norway, Denmark, Belgium, and Holland, as well as the ethnic Germans who lived outside Germany, were fully equipped with the whole 12 “volunteer” SS divisions: 5 (“Viking”), 7-I (“Prince Eugene”), 22-I (“Nordland”), 18-I (“Horst Wessel”), 22-I (“Maria Teresa”), 23-I ( “Netherland”), 27-I (“Langemark”), 28-I (“Wallonia”), 31-I (“Bohemia and Moravia”), 32-I (“30 of January”), 34-I (“Landstorm” Nederland "), 37-I (" Lyuttsov ").

We also published translated studies of this topic by foreign authors. You can compare their level and ours ...​

The SS command also formed foreign divisions such as the 23-I “Kama” and the 13-I mountain division “Handshar” (from Croats, as well as Bosnians and Herzegovina Muslims), then the 21-I division “Skanderberg” was created from the Albanians , from the Italians 29 I, from the Hungarians 25 I Hunyadi, and 26 I Tembes, from the French consisted of the 33 I Division Charlemagne (that is, Charles the Great), from Lithuanians, Latvians (15- I, 19-I), Estonians (20-I), citizens of the USSR and just former Russian citizens (29-I "ROA", 30-I), Belarusians, Ukrainians (14-I "Galicia).

The soldiers of the Führer also fought under such banners. Well, who can read Arabic?​

To distinguish between the "volunteer" SS divisions, manned by Norwegians, Danes, Dutch, Flemish and Volksdeutsche, they were called "SS troops divisions." During the war years there were at least 15. The exact number of such "volunteer divisions" and "divisions of the SS troops" is difficult to establish due to the existence of many smaller units - battalions, regiments, brigades, legions, also created under the auspices of the SS. Some of them were reduced to the size of divisions, some didn’t manage to reach the required number, and some wanted to form a command of the SS, but didn’t, and they remained only on paper.

Interestingly, representatives of such foreign states that were not occupied by Germany were also serving in the SS. For example, the Swedes served Hitler in the amount of 101 people, there were more Swiss - 584 people, there were still Finns, Romanians, Bulgarians, Spaniards, who had their own national legions. And these were real volunteers — either fanatics or real adventurers, who often illegally crossed the borders of their countries, just to take part in the “struggle against Bolshevism”. True, the number of such was very small, but nevertheless there were such.

After lunch, prayer. And a mandatory request that his national god help Adolf Hitler​

Spanish volunteers also fought in the SS. For example, it was the 250 I Infantry Division, which was part of the German Army Group "North", and was in Russia for a long time, but then in October - November 1943 returned to Spain. But there were soldiers and officers who remained to fight in Russia. From these ideological volunteers the “Spanish Legion” was formed (or the “Blue Legion”, as it was unofficially called), a warrior who fought on the side of Nazi Germany until March 1944, when, by decision of the Spanish government, he was also recalled to his homeland.

There were blacks in the German army! “Corps F”, or “Helmut Felmi”, after the name of his commander. Acted under Rostov in 1942 year. Of the six thousand of his soldiers, three thousand are Arabs and Blacks Maghreb​

Moreover, General Franco gave the order to close the Spanish-French border for such volunteers who might again wish to go to Germany. Nevertheless, there were approximately 150 people who crossed the border illegally. Naturally, in France, the German authorities met them very well and sent them to a training camp in Stablatt, near Koenigsberg. And from there they again got ... into the SS troops. As a result of all these "border crossings" by April 1945, under the command of the former captain of the "Blue Division" Miguel Escuerra - now Standartenfuhrer SS (colonel of the SS troops), there were three companies from the Spaniards and also a certain number of soldiers of the French and Belgian forces SS ". And the devotion of these volunteers was completely rewarded by Hitler himself, since the Esquerra Compound was entrusted with guarding the Reich Chancellery. And it was precisely it that fought in the last battles of May 1945 for the government quarters of Berlin. The fate of the brave Spaniard was merciful. He was captured, but managed to escape and get to Spain. Nobody pursued him there, so he even managed to write and publish his memoirs.

Ashkari, a member of the German African Nazi party, along with members of the Austrian Nazi party. Such a touching fascist "internationalism" in action​

That is, volunteers who fought in the SS because of their own "consciousness" really were. However, they were by no means lacking and had to recruit “volunteers” to the SS troops forcibly. As a result, they began to differ little from the "colonial troops", and those, as everyone knows, weapons at all times were extremely unreliable.

For this reason, many SS units either disbanded or re-created, shuffled like cards and transferred from one section of the front to another, sections of the front, which makes it so difficult to determine their exact number. Some units did not participate in the hostilities at all, but were used as punitive and police units for reprisals with local residents of the occupied territories and the fight against partisans. The Germans did not harbor any illusions. And they understood that just “their traitors” would betray them a second time, as it happened, for example, with the “Russian SS squad”.

A group of Cossacks from the German troops on the southern section of the Eastern Front. Dressed in Soviet overcoats, hats​

Please see the second page.

tank said:

Have a look at this post and it might would give you a clue why many Russians think so.

Click to expand...

continuation of the article:


By the way, there were two “squads”: - “1-I and 2-I Russian SS squads”. Walter Schellenberg, the head of the SS intelligence service (VI Directorate of the RSHA), wrote in his memoirs that the "Druzhina" was formed from those Soviet prisoners of war who were prepared for the transfer to the Soviet rear as part of Operation Zeppelin. There they were supposed to engage in espionage and sabotage, but since their dispatch was quite often delayed, they were combined into a combat unit, which was called "Druzhina". Her commander was a former Soviet officer, Colonel Rodionov (nicknamed - Gill). At first there was one “squad”, then the second appeared, and in March 1943, they were united into the “1-th Russian National SS Regiment”. Then the 1 Russian National SS Brigade was created from it, and Rodionov became the commander of this regiment first and then the brigade commander. Schellenberg wrote that he warned his superiors that these Russian formations should not be used in punitive actions against partisans. That in this case, the brigade can move to the "red" side. And he can be said to have looked into the water!

In August 1943, the brigade was again involved in combing the village for the search for partisans. Noticing the column of Soviet prisoners of war, who were guarded by SS soldiers, the brigade fighters attacked the convoy, released the prisoners and went with them to the partisans. It turned out that Rodionov had contacted the partisan detachment in advance of him. Zheleznyak, and through him the leadership of the partisan movement in Moscow. They believed him, and the whole operation went “without a hitch,” without even providing for the arrest of the most inveterate traitors from among the brigade commanders, who could have resisted the transfer to the partisans. It is clear what this “betrayal” had consequences, but ... the policy regarding collaborators has not changed. No people - you will use anyone!

However, the most and most surprising and, in general, a phenomenon that was very difficult to explain was the use of various Muslim, Caucasian and Turkic formations by the Nazis. And this is after Himmler himself called them "wild nations." And what's more, their formation within the framework of the “SS troops” completely, by all 100%, contradicted all Nazi racial doctrines, and the very goal of organizing the SS, which was originally conceived as “an alliance of specially selected Nordic Germans”. And here? Flat faces, narrow eyes ... Well, these are Nordic signs that there’s nowhere else to go!

It is not clear why, but Hitler was especially distrustful of the volunteer units of collaborators recruited from the peoples of the USSR, and only in Muslims did he see those who could be relied upon. For example, in December 1942, at a meeting, he told his generals: “I do not know how these Georgians will behave. They do not belong to the Turkic peoples, I believe only Muslims are reliable. I consider all the others unreliable. At the moment, I consider the formation of these purely Caucasian battalions to be very risky, while I do not see any danger in creating purely Muslim formations. Despite all the statements of Rosenberg and the military, I do not trust the Armenians either. ” Here is how! And once again it shows how dangerous it is to trust the opinion of a “brilliant leader”, especially ... who does not have a decent education, because most often it will be wrong. But - the Führer said, “the machine started spinning”: the formation of military units from Soviet prisoners of war from “Turkestan and Caucasian nationalities” began, in which Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Tatars, Azerbaijanis and others were recorded. Already at the end of 1943 the “1 East Muslim SS Regiment. " In November 1944, it was turned into the “East Turkic SS Troops Union” which was given over to the standard of the SS Standartenfuhrer ... Harun al-Rashid. For some time he was listed as part of the 13 (Muslim) Mountain Rifle Division of the SS Handshar, but later became a separate formation.

In May 1944, a regiment in the Minsk region participated in military operations against the Red Army and ... then what happened was what happened. A large group of Kazakhs went to the partisans. After that, the regiment, or rather, what was left of it, was transferred to Northern Slovakia. But there, in December 1944, 400, Uzbek soldiers and officers again went over to the partisans. He commanded the rebel Obersturm Fuhrer SS Alimov, who at one time commanded this regiment.

Soldiers from the 51-th division of the English army next to prisoners of war from national units. The legionnaire's left can clearly see the emblem with the inscription TURKISTAN (its other variety is also known, where the bow and arrow were depicted)​

The British and American military, who landed in Normandy in June 1944, constantly noted that many of the "Germans" who surrendered to them were in fact citizens of the Soviet Union. According to their estimates, there were about 10% of all captured soldiers of the German army. And many fled to the French partisans, if only the opportunity presented itself.

Sentinel from the Free Arabia Legion​

In one of the comments to the first part of this material, the question was asked: did the blacks fight for the Germans? Yes, they fought. Because the command of the German armed forces, and in particular the leadership of the SS, did not consider it anything special to use "cannon fodder" with any color of skin. And if Reichsfuhrer SS Himmler agreed to create “national” units from Russians and Muslims, then there was a place for the British, Americans, and even Indians and Arabs. Are they worse? Moreover, there was another category of scum, which also did not disdain. These are actually German criminals, to whom God himself could have ordered “atone for the Reich” by fighting the partisans as part of the “valiant SS troops”. And such a unit, of course, was formed in February 1942. It was a special battalion of the Dirlenwanger SS, which in 1945 became the 36 SS division of the Dirlenwanger. Moreover, not only Germans, criminals, but also traitors from among Ukrainian nationalists served in it. Apparently, this audience turned out to be their closest in spirit, otherwise it is difficult to explain.

Very interesting photo. Chinese Jiang Weigo in uniform of fan-cadet (candidate for officers) Wehrmacht​

Admission of criminals to the ranks of the SS took place directly in concentration camps, and the selection of candidates was reduced to a simple formality. In the camps, such “SS men” performed the duties of kapo, warders, block elders, etc. In Auschwitz, these prisoners were, for example, from 1940 and “worked” together with SS guards “Dead Head”. Whatever crime they committed, they had nothing to fear from the gas chamber, they ate separately from other prisoners, had special rations and even ... their own apartments in the camp, and often well furnished, and even sold the things of the destroyed prisoners. That is, among the fascists practically any “human material” came into play, if only he had a suitable “morality” and spiritual values ​​corresponding to his “ideals”.

And this is what he became - that is, the experience of German service benefited him. Jiang Weigo is the general of the armed forces and Minister of National Defense of Communist China. 1965-1969​

And the last - all this was not a secret to anyone in the highest echelons of power of the Reich. An open secret, so to speak, and nothing more. So, far from the last person in the SS hierarchy, and the second after Himmler - SS Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich, in June 1942, he directly called the SS "a garbage can." That is, he, at least, was aware that the actions of the SS, and of himself, were simply criminal. And it is hardly an exaggeration to say that being a fascist or a Nazi (here the accuracy of the wording does not play a special role!) Simply means a state of mind, otherwise no one would buy such stupidity. And they were under Hitler in Germany, they were in England, USA, France, Norway among Arabs and Indians, among Chinese, Japanese, among Soviet citizens and white emigrants from Tsarist Russia. They exist today both in the West and in the former republics of the USSR, and even in modern Russia ...