“Colours…A matter of opinion…a statement of fact.” (1 Viewer)

[Guy]

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Looks ok to me.

and to me too
guy

 

[jazzeum]

Count me in.

Brad

 

[Guy]

Look at the yelow colour of the Panther in the 1st picture and the olive green of the Panther ausf D in the second picture . I think this should close the debate about the colours on the new K&C Panther ausf G
guy

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Look at the yelow colour of the Panther in the 1st picture and the olive green of the Panther ausf D in the second picture . I think this should close the debate about the colours on the new K&C Panther ausf G
guy
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The front half of the turret side in the 1st photo is also green. And it's an early Ausf D so it is a faded paint job from earlier in the war before acute paint shortages

Terry

 

[zulucollector]

I feel dirty just reading this thread it is like viewing TMZ..... trying not be judgemental but could not help myself.. cheers jay

 

[Panzer ace]

Look at the yelow colour of the Panther in the 1st picture and the olive green of the Panther ausf D in the second picture . I think this should close the debate about the colours on the new K&C Panther ausf G
guy
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Great, now I want a battle damaged Panther like this and the damaged building to go with it.

I knew this debate would get me into trouble sooner or later!

 

[Guy]

The front half of the turret side in the 1st photo is also green. And it's an early Ausf D so it is a faded paint job from earlier in the war before acute paint shortages

Terry

Terry
the front half of the turret is not green it is BURNED
guy

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Terry
the front half of the turret is not green it is BURNED
guy

I mean the centre of the turret side to the left of the burn

Terry

 

[Poppo]

I mean the centre of the turret side to the left of the burn

Terry

That' s dirt

 

[Phantom Warrior]

That' s dirt

to the left of the dirt it looks like a faded green band from the top of the turret to the bottom

Terry

 

[wayne556517]

to the left of the dirt it looks like a faded green band from the top of the turret to the bottom

Terry

That,s blood and other body matter........................^&grin

 

[jazzeum]

That,s blood and other body matter........................^&grin

The butcher has spoken! ^&cool

 

[DM101]

My guess why "faded colors" are used is purely commercial/pratical considerations - you can easier "whitewash" this piece to get a SNOW PANTHER than if the colors are darker ^&grin

Say you contract the factory to make 500 pieces - all same type (which is cheaper in bulk), 250 pieces you can apply another process/layer of "whitewash" - and you get yourself a SNOW version !

If the GREEN is too dark - the white-wash cannot cover the tank properly

Let's see if my guess is correct when the SNOW Panther is released........ {sm4}

 

[Rutledge]

Finally, you asked what makes me a "great expert on accuracy of anything". Simply put, it's nothing more than looking at primary source material, e.g. color pictures of WW2 camo colors on actual German AFVs and equipment and comparing them to the models. Fmethorst has a previous excellent post with pictures on this subject. Based on that, the green you used on the Jagdpanther, Panzer IV, SdKfz 234, etc. are all good representations of this color. The green on this Panther and the Jagdtiger is not. When the Jagdtiger came out, these same complaints on the green color were made.

Instead of continuing to use a shade of green that "could" have been used, why not just use one that definitely was used?

Cheers.

I go back to my earlier comment. These are "toys" in a sense, but also art. Are you telling me that your "source" material is different or better than Andy's? Do you think your original photos could have captured the color a bit off due to light, etc.? Is is it possible battlefield conditions, sunlight, etc could have readily changed the paint after applied? Do you have an actual can of the paint in question, and have you seen it applied to a metal surface, left to the elements for some time? I suspect not. Thus your view of the "correct" color is no more than an opinion, based on your limited information. As KC has vastly more experience than you in producing their "art", I would naturally defer to them - barring your having truly superior information, which I strongly suspect you do not.

Really, this attacking from a "point on high" is tiresome. Perhaps a private email and direct submission of "evidence" would have made your case more likely to be taken seriously, at least next go around. However I suspect public assaults on character and integrity (lazy/uncaring/willfully uncaring) will not get you what you want - ever - in this situation or any other. But perhaps you can share stories of public assaults on character and business practices "from the peanut gallery" that have been successful.

 

[Hunter Rose]

Last post from me, but figured I'd throw up some pictures on why I feel the way I do.

For Guy's two pictures, I don't see anything definitive there. The top picture is of a burnt out Panther, and heat tends to warp colors. Also, even here there's no consensus whether it is green paint/smoke damage/dirt/body parts on the side of the Panther.

As for the lower picture, it appears to be a museum piece/static display, so that doesn't really tell us anything. That being said, the green on the lower tank looks fine to me too. It looks accurate and like the green on the King and Country Kursk Tiger to me.

However, Andy stated the Panther green was the same used on previous late war models, so I assume he means the Jagdtiger as it has the same two-tone tan/green paint scheme. The green on the Jagdtiger is much more lighter/pastel looking to me and much closer to the green on the BoB King Tiger (which has a horrible shade of green).

Of all the color photos I've seen, German RAL6003 Olivgrün looks like the green from the Kursk Tiger or Jagdpanther. Even dirty/faded Olivgrün still looks closer to the Kursk Tiger/Jagdpanther.

Sure anything is possible, and some combination of thinning/paint mixture/etc. "could" have resulted in the unique shade of green K&C uses on late war German AFVs, but that is still just conjecture.

My whole point is: Why use a color that is "possible" or "could have happened" when you can use one of two very nice shades of K&C green that look "definitively historical accurate"?

 

[Hunter Rose]

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I go back to my earlier comment. These are "toys" in a sense, but also art. Are you telling me that your "source" material is different or better than Andy's? Do you think your original photos could have captured the color a bit off due to light, etc.? Is is it possible battlefield conditions, sunlight, etc could have readily changed the paint after applied? Do you have an actual can of the paint in question, and have you seen it applied to a metal surface, left to the elements for some time? I suspect not. Thus your view of the "correct" color is no more than an opinion, based on your limited information. As KC has vastly more experience than you in producing their "art", I would naturally defer to them - barring your having truly superior information, which I strongly suspect you do not.

Really, this attacking from a "point on high" is tiresome. Perhaps a private email and direct submission of "evidence" would have made your case more likely to be taken seriously, at least next go around. However I suspect public assaults on character and integrity (lazy/uncaring/willfully uncaring) will not get you what you want - ever - in this situation or any other. But perhaps you can share stories of public assaults on character and business practices "from the peanut gallery" that have been successful.

Target Cease Fire.................Driver back up ! ................................ {sm3}

 

[King & Country]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replies and responses…Again, interesting points raised and one in particular deserves an answer…yes indeed, it is a blessing to have a Forum as well run and interesting as the Treefrog one and for that we should all thank Pete and Shannon plus the moderators.

However when it comes to getting the insight of the collectors I like to get out and actually meet and talk with many of the collectors face-to-face. This Forum does offer the views of some…but it’s only a very very small number… Last time I looked there were over 3,150 members. Of that number I would reckon less than a hundred are regular or occasional “posters.”

In any given year I am fortunate to attend 3 major American Shows…1 British one plus in store “Meet ‘n’ Greets” and special collector events in Italy, France, Australia and a few other places. Later this year K&C will in addition be in Singapore, South Korea and, for the first time, Germany. At all of these events I listen to a wealth of comment and ideas that help shape what K&C produces. I get to hear what collectors like…and dislike…what most feel is important…and, occasionally not so important! All of this information is distilled and analyzed and plays a major role in company decisions.

Now, ask yourself this…with one or two notable exceptions, how many other manufacturers or companies take the time and effort to participate on this forum…to produce a quarterly full-colour magazine that goes out to over 7,500 collectors and goes “on-the-road” to talk and meet with hundreds of collectors around the world…often on a one-to-one basis?

Constructive criticism is both welcome and necessary for every company and we are no exception!

That being said just because someone on the Forum makes a statement or expresses an opinion it does not mean I have to agree with it…or even accept that it comes from the “burning bush” itself. All of us can and do make mistakes…and I’ve made my fair share. But the opposite can also be just as valid…

Sometimes even the self-appointed expert can be wrong! The internet is wonderful and a huge boon to one and all however it does allow anonymous critics to protect themselves and their own “personal information” while taking the rest of us to task for what they consider our faults and perceived discrepancies.

And that’s the story so far…Adios for now and happy collecting!

Andy C.​

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I think the key point to be made here is......................... The color in question is quite valid and very feasible. Because it is "Different" does not make it incorrect. If all German 1/30 scale armored vehicles were painted in the same "common" camo colors , things would tend to get repetitive and boring......wouldn't they !

 

[Jack]

The tone of a manufacturer's posts can indeed influence the decision whether to purchase their product or not. Without referencing this issue at all, as the colour of German tanks do not fall into my area of expertise (a lot of them were grey I believe), I do wonder if the tone of the criticisms made of products influence what kind of hearing they get. As in any interaction, it is a two way street. I have only attended two K&C dinners but I have seen collectors talk endlessly about the need for Andy to produce more and more Australian figures, to venture into the Pacific War, or start a Gallipoli range, a Tobruk range etc. Yet in a situation where there was mutual respect, it made for a really interesting discussion.