“Colours…A matter of opinion…a statement of fact.” (2 Viewers)

[uksubs]

The tone of a manufacturer's posts can indeed influence the decision whether to purchase their product or not. Without referencing this issue at all, as the colour of German tanks do not fall into my area of expertise (a lot of them were grey I believe), I do wonder if the tone of the criticisms made of products influence what kind of hearing they get. As in any interaction, it is a two way street. I have only attended two K&C dinners but I have seen collectors talk endlessly about the need for Andy to produce more and more Australian figures, to venture into the Pacific War, or start a Gallipoli range, a Tobruk range etc. Yet in a situation where there was mutual respect, it made for a really interesting discussion.

Jack I've always thought adage the customer is always right is always the best way to go as at the end of the day there your paying customers but Andy can't be getting all wrong running a company's this long just need to make a Comet tank and here get a gold star ^&grin

 

[Jack]

Jack I've always thought adage the customer is always right is always the best way to go as at the end of the day there your paying customers but Andy can't be getting all wrong running a company's this long just need to make a Comet tank and here get a gold star ^&grin

Yes, perhaps you are right. The killer though, is that on a Forum, the customers do not agree with each other. They cannot all be right{sm4}{sm4}

He should do the the Sentinel before the Comet. I would not buy it. In fact no-one would. It would be a lot of fun to talk about though.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Imagine all this arguing over shades of colour from virtually no good examples. Men are bad at comparing or differentiating shades of colour. That's why women can spend hours looking over colour charts but the men just want to get out of the store - the choices are overwhelming and we can't see the difference anyway. The shades of green are all beginning to look the same. To me there are only 4 shades of green. Dark Green, light Green, Lime Green and pastel green. I say let Shannon pick the camo colours {sm4}

Terry

 

[Desertkiwi]

Andy yes you do post a lot on the forum but also your the only toy company I know who rude to customers on a regular basis ,I talked to all toy soldier company's but your the only one who come across as rude So does not make me want to rush out and buy your stuff or see you at a show to be honest .just my personal opinion

I hardly see standing up for your company and it's products, as being rude, especially after enduring a continual barrage of thinly veiled insults from far and wide.

 

[jazzeum]

Reception of one's ideas depends on the manner in which the ideas are presented; in our professions or with our spouses we wouldn't call someone lazy and expect our ideas to be favorably received. However, manner of presentation is a two way street.

 

[The Military Workshop]

Jack I've always thought adage the customer is always right is always the best way to go as at the end of the day there your paying customers but Andy can't be getting all wrong running a company's this long just need to make a Comet tank and here get a gold star ^&grin

As Jack says not all customers can be right and if any brand followed that line they would go bust trying to keep up with their wish lists or varying needs for accuracy and price points.

 

[Rutledge]

How many shades of white are there?

" Technically, there is pretty much an unlimited number of shades of white, or you can say billions of different shades of white. However, there are only over 100 shades of white paint colors, and maybe, but only about 80 major shades of white."

Oh dear. The horror, the horror.

Votes are most clearly registered with ones'....pocketbook! Anything else is just bluster and noise.

 

[jazzeum]

Is there a necessity to belittle? One opinion is just as valid as the other. You may not agree with it and that is your prerogative but there is no need to belittle either.

 

[Blowtorch]

I go back to my earlier comment. These are "toys" in a sense, but also art. Are you telling me that your "source" material is different or better than Andy's? Do you think your original photos could have captured the color a bit off due to light, etc.? Is is it possible battlefield conditions, sunlight, etc could have readily changed the paint after applied? Do you have an actual can of the paint in question, and have you seen it applied to a metal surface, left to the elements for some time? I suspect not. Thus your view of the "correct" color is no more than an opinion, based on your limited information. As KC has vastly more experience than you in producing their "art", I would naturally defer to them - barring your having truly superior information, which I strongly suspect you do not.

Here's data from Chory's chips in his book.

The WW2 RAL chips are in at least four libraries in Germany, as well as the RAL institute itself. These are Munsell codes of which I have given the primer elsewhere on the forum, so if you search for Musell & my name, you should find them.
Let me go down the list of concerns.
1) American paint specs called for the highest quality most lightfast pigments known, I would assume the Germans did as well. I would doubly assume this given that the best inorganic pigment mines in the world were in the German sphere of influence, Spain, France, Italy, Turkey.
2) The data shows a /2 chroma for the olivegreen color standard. That would be as high as it gets. Nothing creates more chroma except mixing in another color, usually much higher chroma. Sun won't alter to a higher chroma, thinner won't thin to a higher chroma, dirt wont dirty to a higher chroma,
3) Yes in WW2 there were accelerated weathering studies performed on American tank colors, in Florida & California
4) There are only two instances of bizarre Olive Drab color changes in WW2 I am aware of...tanks & planes in early WW2, through Torch, Sicily; and high altitude planes throughout the war, B-17s. The paint (which was laquer, not enamel) was never designed for that extreme altitude.
5) I would hope this data would be useful to painters to learn chroma from greyscale when going for 'scale effect' in their models if they choose. Going for higher chroma that what is listed on this table is truly 'art' & devoid of science or fact

Ten million colors of all sorts are visible to the human eye.

 

[Rutledge]

Here's data from Chory's chips in his book.

The WW2 RAL chips are in at least four libraries in Germany, as well as the RAL institute itself. These are Munsell codes of which I have given the primer elsewhere on the forum, so if you search for Musell & my name, you should find them.
Let me go down the list of concerns.
1) American paint specs called for the highest quality most lightfast pigments known, I would assume the Germans did as well. I would doubly assume this given that the best inorganic pigment mines in the world were in the German sphere of influence, Spain, France, Italy, Turkey.
2) The data shows a /2 chroma for the olivegreen color standard. That would be as high as it gets. Nothing creates more chroma except mixing in another color, usually much higher chroma. Sun won't alter to a higher chroma, thinner won't thin to a higher chroma, dirt wont dirty to a higher chroma,
3) Yes in WW2 there were accelerated weathering studies performed on American tank colors, in Florida & California
4) There are only two instances of bizarre Olive Drab color changes in WW2 I am aware of...tanks & planes in early WW2, through Torch, Sicily; and high altitude planes throughout the war, B-17s. The paint (which was laquer, not enamel) was never designed for that extreme altitude.
5) I would hope this data would be useful to painters to learn chroma from greyscale when going for 'scale effect' in their models if they choose. Going for higher chroma that what is listed on this table is truly 'art' & devoid of science or fact

Ten million colors of all sorts are visible to the human eye. L]

You Assume and then "doubly assume". That does not give me high confidence.
Most of your info is based on American studies or practices. This discussion was about German colors.
Whether art or toys, "devoid of science or fact" is beyond the pale. These are not the real thing. If you insist on that you'll need a larger garage.
KC is a business and at some point there are diminishing financial returns from focusing obsessively on the most minutest of details.
There is nothing prohibiting anyone from repainting a vehicle to their own specs.
99.9999% of people would never comment or notice a shade of green difference.
Call it "style" or art, every manufacturer has their own. None are wrong or devoid of fact or science.
I don't shop for clothes at Wal Mart but many do. Each to their own, I say, vote with your feet/pocketbook.

 

[Blowtorch]

You Assume and then "doubly assume". That does not give me high confidence.

Rutledge, I have been reading your posts for years & you have never given me confidence in anything.

In our current exchange, clearly one of us is Master, and one of us is Grasshopper.

At my graduation ceremony, I remember the words of the speaker that day. "There are enough rich people in the world; go do something"

Start here:



My interaction with you on this subject is closed

 

[Hunter Rose]

Imagine all this arguing over shades of colour from virtually no good examples. Men are bad at comparing or differentiating shades of colour. That's why women can spend hours looking over colour charts but the men just want to get out of the store - the choices are overwhelming and we can't see the difference anyway. The shades of green are all beginning to look the same. To me there are only 4 shades of green. Dark Green, light Green, Lime Green and pastel green. I say let Shannon pick the camo colours {sm4}

Terry

Terry,

I see what you did there. You subtly just called us all a bunch of women, didn't you? {sm4} :salute::

 

[jazzeum]

Blowtorch,

Are you afraid of some debate on the matter.

Brad

 

[Rutledge]

Rutledge, I have been reading your posts for years & you have never given me confidence in anything.

In our current exchange, clearly one of us is Master, and one of us is Grasshopper.

At my graduation ceremony, I remember the words of the speaker that day. "There are enough rich people in the world; go do something"

Start here:



My interaction with you on this subject is closed

Well there Blow, this conversation is over when I say it is! Lol

As scintillating as your reading suggestion surely is (not), I'm afraid my schedule of actually having a life doesn't permit my perusal. Do forgive.

You have completely misread my prior comments I'm afraid. It's not about your knowledge on arcane matters of zero interest or concern to 99.999% of humanity. It's rather that K&C, as a business, produces the best, most accurate, attractive and salable items that provide a reasonable profit for the effort put forth and risk taken. While Germany's paint industry during WWII may be your raison d'être, there are thousands of details that they have to get right with each item. Digging into enormous detail on each and every would provide very little in terms of appreciable sales appeal, and would significantly raise prices. Therefore it is wholly untenable as a business strategy.

Feel free not to be rich all you want. The US has been a moderately successful enterprise making lots of its hard working citizens quite wealthy. Fortunately for KC and Treefrog, that disposable income provides a ready, willing and large customer base. Think it through Blow.

Ok, I'm off to smack the little white ball. Enjoy your sedentary pursuits.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Terry,

I see what you did there. You subtly just called us all a bunch of women, didn't you? {sm4} :salute::

Sorry! It wasn't meant to be subtle {eek3}^&grin

Terry

 

[Panzer ace]

Sorry! It wasn't meant to be subtle {eek3}^&grin

Terry

I argued with my wife once about the color of our new couches. Ironically enough it led to me having to sleep on the couch that night.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I argued with my wife once about the color of our new couches. Ironically enough it led to me having to sleep on the couch that night.

was the couch olivegrun?^&grin

Terry

 

[Hunter Rose]

Well there Blow, this conversation is over when I say it is! Lol

As scintillating as your reading suggestion surely is (not), I'm afraid my schedule of actually having a life doesn't permit my perusal. Do forgive.

You have completely misread my prior comments I'm afraid. It's not about your knowledge on arcane matters of zero interest or concern to 99.999% of humanity. It's rather that K&C, as a business, produces the best, most accurate, attractive and salable items that provide a reasonable profit for the effort put forth and risk taken. While Germany's paint industry during WWII may be your raison d'être, there are thousands of details that they have to get right with each item. Digging into enormous detail on each and every would provide very little in terms of appreciable sales appeal, and would significantly raise prices. Therefore it is wholly untenable as a business strategy.

Feel free not to be rich all you want. The US has been a moderately successful enterprise making lots of its hard working citizens quite wealthy. Fortunately for KC and Treefrog, that disposable income provides a ready, willing and large customer base. Think it through Blow.

Ok, I'm off to smack the little white ball. Enjoy your sedentary pursuits.

Quite literally the 'ole: "You're stupid now I'm going home and playing with my own ball" argument.

 

[Panzer ace]

was the couch olivegrun?^&grin

Terry

No, but it is the correct scale.

^&cool

 

[wayne556517]

I don't think Andy is going to change a thing,so as the saying goes "If ya don't like it don't buy it"........................^&grin
but i bet he is loving the free publicity it is recieving positive or negative.