1/30 Scale Vehicles (1 Viewer)

That's all well and good Gary. But when the next generation model is released will you buy it?

Show me one and tell me the price. If it is a commonly made piece that I already have 4 of (i.e Sherman, Tiger), it would have to be much, much better than the pieces I already have to justify me spending my budget on that rather than a new vehicle type. If it is a vehicle type I do not have, and there are many of those, I will buy it. I am willing to buy one very good, expensive $250 - $400 piece instead of two lesser quality ones, but only a few each year.

Terry
 
Show me one and tell me the price. If it is a commonly made piece that I already have 4 of (i.e Sherman, Tiger), it would have to be much, much better than the pieces I already have to justify me spending my budget on that rather than a new vehicle type. If it is a vehicle type I do not have, and there are many of those, I will buy it. I am willing to buy one very good, expensive $250 - $400 piece instead of two lesser quality ones, but only a few each year.

Terry

Have a look at the new thread! :eek:

Jeff
 
Carlos:

You beat me to it! I concur & have your six! Well said and honest.

~Marc
 
I think another element of having a favourite collector is their own particular Style of model.HB,K&C,Figarti all have their own type of 'Look'.And i'm sure FL's style will soon be as well known,already the Stug looks very nice as do the figures with it.I have Tanks so far from the three above producers and my main criteria are Realism,an interest in the theatre or Battle the vehicle comes from and it must go well with the other producers vehicles.Although funds are not unlimited i don't mind paying good money if the other criteria are met.

I think producers sometimes forget that their models can compliment or add to an already existing collection.For instance i purchased HB's Winter Panther and it is a superb model,however i was not so keen on the figures that came with it,I added the K&C Tank riders and it looks great.

I don't think we have to stick to one producer for our vehicles,the competion will always give us more choice of vehicle in more camo schemes.I simply don't understand the need to run down other producers or collectors of those producers,i also do not think its as straightforward as saying one producer is better than another,some excel in one area whilst others in another.We can only benefit from choice and we should try and make the Hobby more user friendly and less confrontational.

Rob
 
I'm looking. Very nice detail. Will it be at the London show? Matt, will you fly me over to have a closer look? :D

Terry

Not at London, sorry. The figures, which are just so far beyond what anyone else is doing, will be there. If you think the figures are good (and if you see them, you WILL think they're good!), and unless you're blind and don't like the Cranberries you will like them, the vehicles we're going to do will outshine the figures Seriously, our figures are the finest in the world and the vehicles match the quality........Seriously, enough is enough. Just look at the images...........



Want to see something reallly cool. Scroll down........






First Legion ROCKS. ;-)

08.jpg



07.jpg




Ok............Now WHO makes the best WWII figures in the world?

Matt
 
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Interesting comments Paul. You mention that there is ceiling in this hobby, however, without seeing what can actuallly be achieved in terms of accuracy and detail, how does one know what that ceiling is? I'm just wondering....


Touche........:);)
 
I think another element of having a favourite collector is their own particular Style of model.HB,K&C,Figarti all have their own type of 'Look'.And i'm sure FL's style will soon be as well known,already the Stug looks very nice as do the figures with it.I have Tanks so far from the three above producers and my main criteria are Realism,an interest in the theatre or Battle the vehicle comes from and it must go well with the other producers vehicles.Although funds are not unlimited i don't mind paying good money if the other criteria are met.

I think producers sometimes forget that their models can compliment or add to an already existing collection.For instance i purchased HB's Winter Panther and it is a superb model,however i was not so keen on the figures that came with it,I added the K&C Tank riders and it looks great.

I don't think we have to stick to one producer for our vehicles,the competion will always give us more choice of vehicle in more camo schemes.I simply don't understand the need to run down other producers or collectors of those producers,i also do not think its as straightforward as saying one producer is better than another,some excel in one area whilst others in another.We can only benefit from choice and we should try and make the Hobby more user friendly and less confrontational.

Rob

I agree. The choice today is exceptional and as I have said before, there is always room in my collection for some very high quality pieces. I will pass up other models to get them

Terry
 
That's all well and good Gary. But when the next generation model is released will you buy it?

I make no promises before I see an item and its price. I DO have a bunch of the high-end Sherman and US halftrack kits from Dragon (DML), but I did balk at the $450 for the HB M4A1. The subject also affects my decisions - I am a "GI freak", so I go for buying Shermans, etc and yawn at the endless parade of Tigers. Not only was the Honour Bound Sherman expensive, but at the same time I had just bought several M4A1s in 1/35th, 1/48th and 1/72nd scales - despite the beauty I just didn't need another M4A1 75mm Mid-production type.

So, YES, when the next generation model comes out, I will make every effort to buy it if it's affordable and the subject has interest to me.

Gary
 
I've been reading with interest the debate that's been going on in the Figarti forum discussing the merits of K&C and Figarti vehicles. I've sort of been watching and one thing that has crossed my mind a few times are the following questions. I realize that this is a different approach - a MFR asking collectors to answer questions, but hell, you guys ask us all the time, so now is your turn to answer some questions!

1. Do you guys really think that Figarti and K&C vehicles are THAT good? Seriously....are they that good or are they just the best available to you in pre-painted form?

2. Do you all really think that it can't be done any BETTER than these companies (K&C, Figarti, HB, etc...) do it? Have you standards on quality been so programmed that you think what you're buying today is the pinnacle of what you could be buying? Seriously, I'm not trying to be patronizing nor am I saying that we'll do it differently or better, I"m just asking what your stock expecations are...

Nevermind the rest of my questions. I guess where I'm going with this is that have you all had your standards so set to the quality of these pieces that you think what these companies produce is actually the pinnacle of what can be achieved? I'm really just wondering.

I realize that this may be viewed as a controversial topic, particulary for a MFR, on this forum, but seriously I'm interested. I look at the vehicles (and figures) that you all fawn over and, seriously, I just don't see it.

Regards,
Matt

for me I think Dragon 1/35 armour look miles better than K&C armour & it miles cheaper
 
Matt,

I am a little late to joining this conversation, but, I will address your questions as follows:

No, I do not think that the vehicles being produced today by Figarti and K&C (or until recently by Honour Bound) mark the pinnacle of model vehicle production. To me, none of these vehicles (which range from very good to excellent in my assessment) are on a par with the truly exceptional and virtually 100% accurate vehicles built by the best professional modelers. However, when I search e-bay for vehicles built by the best professional modelers, they tend to start at $500 to $750 in smaller scales like 1:48 or 1:35.

When K&C produced wood, metal and resin vehicles back in 1996-1998, the detail work of the sculpting (especially in the resin and metal vehicles) was nearly on a par with the plastic models, but the painting was pristine, not weathered, so they were not as good. Additionally, they were as expensive as the master modeler's offerings back then (circa $400).

The first polystone vehicles made by K&C circa 1999-2000 were not well sculpted or well painted, and I tended to grade them fair to poor, despite the bargain basement prices (circa $75).

K&C improved quite a bit in their sculpting and painting on the top of armored vehicles from 2001 through 2006, but the tracks contained a good but of flashing material which I (and many other collectors on this forum) disliked. These I would grade fair to good.

Around the time of the 2004 Chicago Show, Figarti entered the armored vehicle market with a Japanese Chi Ha tank. The tank had individually linked tracks, and was made of several hundred metal detail pieces attached to a polystone chasis. The hatches were hinged to open and close, and the gun fully traversed. This was followed up by several other armored vehicles, including a 1:32 scale Tiger tank made of more than 900 metal pieces with full interior details. These were the closest to the true modelers works of art that I had seen to far, and I graded them excellent. They were the best I had seen until today.

In 2006, Honour Bound started making mostly polystone vehicles with a few dozen metal detail pieces, and, when production of these proved too expensive, sought to corner the market on really high quality custom armored vehicles with the Gold Editions. These were very well done (almost on a par with the best Figarti vehicles) and I thought them excellent, although prohibitively expensive at around $500-$650, depending on the number of crew and customized features the collector wanted.

In 2007-2009, K&C substantially improved its quality in sculpting armored vehicles to just slightly behind Honour Bound's offerings. These I graded very good.

It is my opinion that competition between the various manufacturers of these vehicles pushed the level of quality. It would appear from his posts, his PM's, and the photographs he posted on this thread, that Matt is a very competitive guy!:D

I do not want to be hasty in my assessment of First Legion's initial offering in the armored vehicle market, but it appear from the photographs that the StuG in question as at least as good and possibly even better than the best of Figarti's offerings. If the vehicle looks as good or better in person, with the excellent weathering, fine sculpting details, and since the figures are full, (dare I hope) possibly interior details, this may be the closest to the quality of the master modeler's offerings to date.

I look forward to seeing this model in person. I also look forward to the effect it has on future offerings from the other armored vehicle manufacturers, and, in turn, Matt's response. I will probably end up broke, but I will at least be happy . . .
 
In my opinion none of the vehicles produced are as good as the 1/35 plastic kits I have seen built by top modellers.

The HB Gold series is very good and the customization option was a lot of fun but as has been noted the price is prohibitive to many collectors. Their original series was priced much more reasonably and truth be told wasn't that far behind the Gold series.

I have often looked at the mass produced low cost diecast pieces and thought from a value perspective they far surpass the hand produced polystone/metal of the TS producers.

Think your right on the button mate
 
Matt,

I am a little late to joining this conversation, but, I will address your questions as follows:

No, I do not think that the vehicles being produced today by Figarti and K&C (or until recently by Honour Bound) mark the pinnacle of model vehicle production. To me, none of these vehicles (which range from very good to excellent in my assessment) are on a par with the truly exceptional and virtually 100% accurate vehicles built by the best professional modelers. However, when I search e-bay for vehicles built by the best professional modelers, they tend to start at $500 to $750 in smaller scales like 1:48 or 1:35.

When K&C produced wood, metal and resin vehicles back in 1996-1998, the detail work of the sculpting (especially in the resin and metal vehicles) was nearly on a par with the plastic models, but the painting was pristine, not weathered, so they were not as good. Additionally, they were as expensive as the master modeler's offerings back then (circa $400).

The first polystone vehicles made by K&C circa 1999-2000 were not well sculpted or well painted, and I tended to grade them fair to poor, despite the bargain basement prices (circa $75).

K&C improved quite a bit in their sculpting and painting on the top of armored vehicles from 2001 through 2006, but the tracks contained a good but of flashing material which I (and many other collectors on this forum) disliked. These I would grade fair to good.

Around the time of the 2004 Chicago Show, Figarti entered the armored vehicle market with a Japanese Chi Ha tank. The tank had individually linked tracks, and was made of several hundred metal detail pieces attached to a polystone chasis. The hatches were hinged to open and close, and the gun fully traversed. This was followed up by several other armored vehicles, including a 1:32 scale Tiger tank made of more than 900 metal pieces with full interior details. These were the closest to the true modelers works of art that I had seen to far, and I graded them excellent. They were the best I had seen until today.

In 2006, Honour Bound started making mostly polystone vehicles with a few dozen metal detail pieces, and, when production of these proved too expensive, sought to corner the market on really high quality custom armored vehicles with the Gold Editions. These were very well done (almost on a par with the best Figarti vehicles) and I thought them excellent, although prohibitively expensive at around $500-$650, depending on the number of crew and customized features the collector wanted.

In 2007-2009, K&C substantially improved its quality in sculpting armored vehicles to just slightly behind Honour Bound's offerings. These I graded very good.

It is my opinion that competition between the various manufacturers of these vehicles pushed the level of quality. It would appear from his posts, his PM's, and the photographs he posted on this thread, that Matt is a very competitive guy!:D

I do not want to be hasty in my assessment of First Legion's initial offering in the armored vehicle market, but it appear from the photographs that the StuG in question as at least as good and possibly even better than the best of Figarti's offerings. If the vehicle looks as good or better in person, with the excellent weathering, fine sculpting details, and since the figures are full, (dare I hope) possibly interior details, this may be the closest to the quality of the master modeler's offerings to date.

I look forward to seeing this model in person. I also look forward to the effect it has on future offerings from the other armored vehicle manufacturers, and, in turn, Matt's response. I will probably end up broke, but I will at least be happy . . .

Excellent summary and I to can't wait to see the final product or the Russian armour to come.

Terry
 
Excellent summary and I to can't wait to see the final product or the Russian armour to come.


The same for me Terry. Stug is IMO the mostly beautiful Tank in the early East campaigns, and this one is a beauty..:eek::D, I am also anxious to see THE RUSSIANS.


GOOD JOB Matt, looking forward to see more pics, special with the final touch


Rod.
 
Myself, I have HB, FG, CS, K&C in my collection. I was a Dragon ( plastic ), Minichamps ( diecast ) collector before I got into TS. I didn't like K & C vehicles at all, Figarti I though were sloopy and overpriced, CS were good for the money but had error's, HB were very good but the marked up price was to much.

I didn't buy the Figarti Lee's because I though they were to much money, even on sale, etc.... But if someone were to come along and make better stuff I would sell everything and go with that. There is a limit to what I'll pay even for Great vehicles. There is a ceiling with price in this hobby, even if one can afford big prices.

I am somewhat confused by what you are saying; on the one hand, you said the Figarti Lee was overpriced, even on sale. The retail was 279.00, so if it is on sale, it's still too expensive?

Then you said if someone came along and made better stuff you'd sell everything and go with that, BUT, there is a limit to what you'll pay even for great vehicles.

Sounds like you want high end quality at low end prices; sorry to report it's an either/or situation. Either the quality is high and the price is, or the quality is not so high and neither is the price.

You can't expect BMW quality at Yugo pricing, the two just don't go together.

Am I wrong here?
 
I am somewhat confused by what you are saying; on the one hand, you said the Figarti Lee was overpriced, even on sale. The retail was 279.00, so if it is on sale, it's still too expensive?

Then you said if someone came along and made better stuff you'd sell everything and go with that, BUT, there is a limit to what you'll pay even for great vehicles.

Sounds like you want high end quality at low end prices; sorry to report it's an either/or situation. Either the quality is high and the price is, or the quality is not so high and neither is the price.

You can't expect BMW quality at Yugo pricing, the two just don't go together.

Am I wrong here?


No George I wouldn't say your wrong.

I use to make Tamiya & Dragon 1/35 scale kit. Rule # 1 when your building tank models is Get Your Bogies Strait then your treads will go on strait.

I pay good money for my TS vehicles they are not cheep and I expect the bogies and treads on them to be Strait. But why is it that the bogies and tracks on them look like someone was sniffing the glue to long. How hard is it for a company to make a simple jig to do this for them?

I don't think i'm asking for to much here.
 
Hi Matt,

There is a need for higher quality vehicles!

I collect Britains WWII - since they were the first and only soldiers I collected a kid.

King & Country - Was the spark that really re-stated my collecting in my late 30s.
A great product, at a good price and the industry's best selection . This is the vast majority of my collection which is focused on WWII Germans and Americans. Over the past year I have narrowed my collection to only non Winter Germans in Russia, Europe & Africa and Americans in Europe and Winter BOB.

Hounor Bound - Excellent vehicles / good soldiers. I have all 3 Panthers, the Sherman and a Gold Edition Tiger and a couple soldier sets. It was a big disappointment when they stop manufacturing vehicles.

The Collectors Showcase - very good vehicles and good soldiers (and improving with each release) (the vehicles fit well with my K&C & Hounor Bound - the solders however are still a little tall and I'm not a huge fan of their bases.

Figarti - IMO the best vehicles (I really like the detail and weathering) and greatly improving soldiers.
I have a few AK pieces currently and are looking forward to more.

St. Petersburg / Aeroart - I have been fortunate enough to have the funds to stock a shelf with over 30 Roman figures. *These are the prize pieces of my collection - every one I own is on display.
No need to really comment on the quality. I never got around to asking Thor about making WWII Germans.....probably since my wallet couldn't handle it right now.

Then there is this newer company called First Legion - Napoleonics were never on my radar.
The quality did catch my eye from the beginning. Yes they did appear close to my St. Petersburg figures, however, at a fraction of the cost! After a few days in Paris last summer (I actually went to a toy soldier shop thinking it would be cool to pickup a couple Napoleonics - I found nothing I liked) I came home and ordered my first pieces. IMO my First Legion pieces are the absolute best value for the money in the industry.
Matt - The WWII figures look great (and IMO may end up being best value for high end collectors), however, I am concerned about the size. I know there has been debates in the forum....I really don't care whose are exactly 54 or 60mm, I just want them to fit with my K&C, Hounor Bound and Figarti collection. Being limited on funds and display space I am unable to commit to a new size. If they do fit......I will be very excited to adding some new troops and armor to my WWII collection!
Matt - Thanks again for rushing out the British 9lb Foot Set for my Birthday
Dave Shaw
 

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