1st Canadian Mounted Rifles, Pipe & Drum Band. (2 Viewers)
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johnnybach
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Hi all - pleased that you are liking them - so far - must do the finishing bits to these two today. Glad you noticed my attempts at shading Brad. I am trying to make subtle differences to each horse. As they are so individually posed, I wanted to make them look individuals too - so am trying to get away from " the identical brown all over look" that many commercial TS painters (understandably) go for.
As for staying focussed Dave - hmmmm! - I always find that MOST difficult to do - as I usually have other projects on the go as well.
This time it's these beautiful little semi-rounds, which arrived on the same day as my Canadians - which just might be worth a little thread of their own: I have been painting them in dribs and drabs, whilst waiting for coats of paint to dry on the two Canadian pipers. There's a nice little story behind these newly cast - yet old-fashioned 70mm beauties, as I think you may know already. jb
Don't worry about the Camel Corps either - I'm not that taken with the Arab Cops with the Queen Mum's hat on! Might have one as a curiosity - if ever someone produces him.
As for staying focussed Dave - hmmmm! - I always find that MOST difficult to do - as I usually have other projects on the go as well.
This time it's these beautiful little semi-rounds, which arrived on the same day as my Canadians - which just might be worth a little thread of their own: I have been painting them in dribs and drabs, whilst waiting for coats of paint to dry on the two Canadian pipers. There's a nice little story behind these newly cast - yet old-fashioned 70mm beauties, as I think you may know already. jb
Don't worry about the Camel Corps either - I'm not that taken with the Arab Cops with the Queen Mum's hat on! Might have one as a curiosity - if ever someone produces him.
yeoman
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Hi John
How about the Lovat Scouts, they had at least one mounted piper complete with Bonnet with Towrie. I remember Richard Newth-Gibbs used to do one although I'm not sure what happened to the masters after he ceased trading. I got his mess dress figures and Household Cavalry Maxim Gun which has been re-worked and is now back in production. All, of course sculpted by Alan Caton!
Regards,
Brian.
How about the Lovat Scouts, they had at least one mounted piper complete with Bonnet with Towrie. I remember Richard Newth-Gibbs used to do one although I'm not sure what happened to the masters after he ceased trading. I got his mess dress figures and Household Cavalry Maxim Gun which has been re-worked and is now back in production. All, of course sculpted by Alan Caton!
Regards,
Brian.
Hi all - pleased that you are liking them - so far - must do the finishing bits to these two today. Glad you noticed my attempts at shading Brad. I am trying to make subtle differences to each horse. As they are so individually posed, I wanted to make them look individuals too - so am trying to get away from " the identical brown all over look" that many commercial TS painters (understandably) go for.
As for staying focussed Dave - hmmmm! - I always find that MOST difficult to do - as I usually have other projects on the go as well.
This time it's these beautiful little semi-rounds, which arrived on the same day as my Canadians - which just might be worth a little thread of their own: I have been painting them in dribs and drabs, whilst waiting for coats of paint to dry on the two Canadian pipers. There's a nice little story behind these newly cast - yet old-fashioned 70mm beauties, as I think you may know already. jb
Don't worry about the Camel Corps either - I'm not that taken with the Arab Cops with the Queen Mum's hat on! Might have one as a curiosity - if ever someone produces him.
johnnybach
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I have been looking at your Maxim teams for purchase at some point in the future Brian. The 15 piece EL 16 Boer War seems to be the one I want - but it will have to wait a bit - as I have sorted out my orders up to the end of this year. Lovat Scouts eh? Hmmm... that's a thought - they're in your dismounted Cav section. Might be giving you a shout about some of those around the end of the year Brian - depends what I come back from NZ with - as Imperial and Regal becon whilst I'm down under.
I fancy another band or two as well - but I prefer Cavalry bands to be mounted. Seems a bit daft to have them dismounted if they are Cavalry. Better tell you that I already have mounted Bands of 16th Lancers, Scots Greys and 11th Hussars - so won't want them. Maybe that new Yeomanary band you have planned might be one for me - but would need to have a look at the uniform first. Its the HC that I would really like though - and the pre-1914 variety would be perfect.
This is what I have already for H. Cav. (have to get around to changing plume on that trumpeter).
How about that Indian BSF Band on Camels with every instrument you can think of? That would do nicely for some time next year? ^&grin
I fancy another band or two as well - but I prefer Cavalry bands to be mounted. Seems a bit daft to have them dismounted if they are Cavalry. Better tell you that I already have mounted Bands of 16th Lancers, Scots Greys and 11th Hussars - so won't want them. Maybe that new Yeomanary band you have planned might be one for me - but would need to have a look at the uniform first. Its the HC that I would really like though - and the pre-1914 variety would be perfect.
This is what I have already for H. Cav. (have to get around to changing plume on that trumpeter).
How about that Indian BSF Band on Camels with every instrument you can think of? That would do nicely for some time next year? ^&grin
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johnnybach
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Hi Brad - Everyone who sees them seems to love those really old-fashioned Toy Soldiers from that old Schneider mould. Even "La Commandante" tells me that she loves them - and would like me to collect more of them. Now that DEFINITELY is a first!{eek3}
My pal mensaman (JP) is trying to get hold of a couple more of these moulds - so that he can offer a band as castings. I believe the moulds are currently being made in Germany by a company that specialises in making modern moulds fro the old originals. We shall just have to wait on what develops there - but if he does succeed - I'm his first customer!
They definitely have a charm - all of their own.
I am painting these as a Prussian Guards band, by the way. jb
My pal mensaman (JP) is trying to get hold of a couple more of these moulds - so that he can offer a band as castings. I believe the moulds are currently being made in Germany by a company that specialises in making modern moulds fro the old originals. We shall just have to wait on what develops there - but if he does succeed - I'm his first customer!
They definitely have a charm - all of their own.
I am painting these as a Prussian Guards band, by the way. jb
johnnybach
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Anyhow - back to the present project. I tried to do a "moody" picture - but the focus doesn't want to play better than this. At least it will give an idea of what they will look like. Bases left to do properly.
"The Duelling Bagpipes"
"The Duelling Bagpipes"
johnnybach
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Now focussed on the figures - and not the background. Stirrup needs some attention and base to finish, but nearly there. Regard these two as prototypes.
yeoman
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Hi John,
The bands currently in my listing were a commissioned order which grew and grew, much the same as the 1st Canadian Mounted Rifles I have done for you. The reason they are marching is because the customer wanted the bands to be post WW2 when only the HC were mounted.
If you want to go ahead with a pre 1914 Lifeguard or Horseguard band I am quite amenable to doing one one the same basis as the Canadians. The modern HC is however a different kettle of fish.
So that you have an idea of what the City of London Yeomanry looks like I am attaching a picture of the mounted Kettledrummer c. 1902. Please ignore the colour of the plume as at this time it should be French Grey and not Purple asit is today, a common mistake made by some artists.
Regards
Brian.
The bands currently in my listing were a commissioned order which grew and grew, much the same as the 1st Canadian Mounted Rifles I have done for you. The reason they are marching is because the customer wanted the bands to be post WW2 when only the HC were mounted.
If you want to go ahead with a pre 1914 Lifeguard or Horseguard band I am quite amenable to doing one one the same basis as the Canadians. The modern HC is however a different kettle of fish.
So that you have an idea of what the City of London Yeomanry looks like I am attaching a picture of the mounted Kettledrummer c. 1902. Please ignore the colour of the plume as at this time it should be French Grey and not Purple asit is today, a common mistake made by some artists.
Regards
Brian.
I have been looking at your Maxim teams for purchase at some point in the future Brian. The 15 piece EL 16 Boer War seems to be the one I want - but it will have to wait a bit - as I have sorted out my orders up to the end of this year. Lovat Scouts eh? Hmmm... that's a thought - they're in your dismounted Cav section. Might be giving you a shout about some of those around the end of the year Brian - depends what I come back from NZ with - as Imperial and Regal becon whilst I'm down under.
I fancy another band or two as well - but I prefer Cavalry bands to be mounted. Seems a bit daft to have them dismounted if they are Cavalry. Better tell you that I already have mounted Bands of 16th Lancers, Scots Greys and 11th Hussars - so won't want them. Maybe that new Yeomanary band you have planned might be one for me - but would need to have a look at the uniform first. Its the HC that I would really like though - and the pre-1914 variety would be perfect.
This is what I have already for H. Cav. (have to get around to changing plume on that trumpeter).
How about that Indian BSF Band on Camels with every instrument you can think of? That would do nicely for some time next year? ^&grin
johnnybach
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Hi Brian - I like the look of the Yeomanary figure you have shown - but as you have offered to produce a pre-war Household Cavalry one - well - that's the Regiment I have been after as a Mounted band for around the last ten years, or so. I have seen several - but I am after something a bit more special than the ones that I have seen so far. I'm a sucker for a good Mounted Band - and now I have found your horses........well............ they are what I want for this band.
I will also have your Yeomanary Band - but after the HC one would suit me best probably around late summertime next year ( if they are ready by then).
Would we be talking State Dress - or Review Order for the HC? I have a lovely illustration by Simkin of the drummer in 1909 - though I wouldn't mind Review Order either? Would sometime next Spring give you enough time to produce a band with all of the instruments used then? (Not sure if a Bombardon would have featured in the band that late - but if you could swing it - it's my favourite instrument!).
Thanks for the offer Brian - and my present Band - which I am thoroughly enjoying - as no doubt, you can see. Regards - johnnybach
I will also have your Yeomanary Band - but after the HC one would suit me best probably around late summertime next year ( if they are ready by then).
Would we be talking State Dress - or Review Order for the HC? I have a lovely illustration by Simkin of the drummer in 1909 - though I wouldn't mind Review Order either? Would sometime next Spring give you enough time to produce a band with all of the instruments used then? (Not sure if a Bombardon would have featured in the band that late - but if you could swing it - it's my favourite instrument!).
Thanks for the offer Brian - and my present Band - which I am thoroughly enjoying - as no doubt, you can see. Regards - johnnybach
yeoman
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Coming back at you Johnnybach,
Great at least I now know what I'll be doing for the next year! Seriously Spring 2013 would be a perfect time to aim for to produce a mounted band of the HC prior to 1914. Alan has, at the moment, a long list of things to make for me, both conversions and new projects, and your timing should fit in nicely.
Given the choice I would prefer a Review Order band which could be adapted for all three Regiments and this is how I would put them into my Listing. However, it would only require two extra figures to put them into State Dress so I don't see a problem. You pays your money and you takes your choice. I suppose that then I will have to consider making the rank and file as I'm bound to be asked for some troops to go with them (hint, hint)! Still at least I will also be able to then use the horses to produce Lothian and Berwickshire Yeomanry something I've wanted to do for some time.
I look forward to seeing more in the mounted pipe band saga.
Brian.
Great at least I now know what I'll be doing for the next year! Seriously Spring 2013 would be a perfect time to aim for to produce a mounted band of the HC prior to 1914. Alan has, at the moment, a long list of things to make for me, both conversions and new projects, and your timing should fit in nicely.
Given the choice I would prefer a Review Order band which could be adapted for all three Regiments and this is how I would put them into my Listing. However, it would only require two extra figures to put them into State Dress so I don't see a problem. You pays your money and you takes your choice. I suppose that then I will have to consider making the rank and file as I'm bound to be asked for some troops to go with them (hint, hint)! Still at least I will also be able to then use the horses to produce Lothian and Berwickshire Yeomanry something I've wanted to do for some time.
I look forward to seeing more in the mounted pipe band saga.
Brian.
Hi Brian - I like the look of the Yeomanary figure you have shown - but as you have offered to produce a pre-war Household Cavalry one - well - that's the Regiment I have been after as a Mounted band for around the last ten years, or so. I have seen several - but I am after something a bit more special than the ones that I have seen so far. I'm a sucker for a good Mounted Band - and now I have found your horses........well............ they are what I want for this band.
I will also have your Yeomanary Band - but after the HC one would suit me best probably around late summertime next year ( if they are ready by then).
Would we be talking State Dress - or Review Order for the HC? I have a lovely illustration by Simkin of the drummer in 1909 - though I wouldn't mind Review Order either? Would sometime next Spring give you enough time to produce a band with all of the instruments used then? (Not sure if a Bombardon would have featured in the band that late - but if you could swing it - it's my favourite instrument!).
Thanks for the offer Brian - and my present Band - which I am thoroughly enjoying - as no doubt, you can see. Regards - johnnybach
johnnybach
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Marvelous Brian! How exciting. At long last I can have something to paint that I have wanted for such a long time.
My preference would be for the 1st Lifeguards Mounted Band in Review Order, circa 1900-ish. Looks like we have an amicable agreement there.^&grin
I have only seen pictures of the modern-day band - and instruments include: Clarinet, Cornet, Eupphonium, Piccolo, Saxophone, Tenor Horn, Trombone, and Tuba. I'm not sure when the Bombardon, (Helical Coil - over the shoulder type) would have gone out of useage in Military Bands - but if one was in bands at the time you are going to depict them - then I would love a couple of those. Maybe also a Basson was included back then. Not sure about that either - maybe Alan would know. I always like the maximum number of instruments possible!
The band would include a Director of music and Drum Horse - of course. I would probably go for around six ranks of musicians in files of four ( as modern day band is frequently set up). So we would be talking about 26 mounted figures. Is that about right?
As for an Escorting group? What a good idea, though I would make that an add-on purchase - after the band had been completed - in the interests of matrimonal harmony!{eek3}
Once again though - don't put yourself or Alan under too much pressure to produce this wonderful band to a strict deadline. I have waited around ten years for it - a bit longer won't make any difference. Just nice to know at long last - someone is going to do these Regiments justice - with a superbly sculpted band - available at long last - as castings, for enthusiasts to paint. And yes - I do know others make them - but not like Alan does - I've looked.
Hurrah! - johnnybach
My preference would be for the 1st Lifeguards Mounted Band in Review Order, circa 1900-ish. Looks like we have an amicable agreement there.^&grin
I have only seen pictures of the modern-day band - and instruments include: Clarinet, Cornet, Eupphonium, Piccolo, Saxophone, Tenor Horn, Trombone, and Tuba. I'm not sure when the Bombardon, (Helical Coil - over the shoulder type) would have gone out of useage in Military Bands - but if one was in bands at the time you are going to depict them - then I would love a couple of those. Maybe also a Basson was included back then. Not sure about that either - maybe Alan would know. I always like the maximum number of instruments possible!
The band would include a Director of music and Drum Horse - of course. I would probably go for around six ranks of musicians in files of four ( as modern day band is frequently set up). So we would be talking about 26 mounted figures. Is that about right?
As for an Escorting group? What a good idea, though I would make that an add-on purchase - after the band had been completed - in the interests of matrimonal harmony!{eek3}
Once again though - don't put yourself or Alan under too much pressure to produce this wonderful band to a strict deadline. I have waited around ten years for it - a bit longer won't make any difference. Just nice to know at long last - someone is going to do these Regiments justice - with a superbly sculpted band - available at long last - as castings, for enthusiasts to paint. And yes - I do know others make them - but not like Alan does - I've looked.
Hurrah! - johnnybach
johnnybach
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I thought you might like to see one little job that has to be undertaken with each figure - and that is to fit the head to the body. This is doubtless because the body will have several heads/hats - in order to be able to offer other alternative Regiments - or even Nationalities in WW1 Cavalry dress. My head is just easily glued in place for my 1stCMR, after the body has been drilled and filed, down through the neck, with some of my tools shown.
yeoman
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Hi John,
Right that's settled one mounted band 1st Lifeguards for you and the others for the Yeomanry Miniatures listing. I will ask Alan for any details of instruments he has on file and we will see what we can do. With reference to your comments with regard to the escort I suspect that it was the same reason my marriage ended.
With luck and a following wind I will soon have completed a Horseguards Maxim Gun and escort. I will post pictures on the Yeomanry Miniatures thread when it is ready.
Regards,
Brian.
Right that's settled one mounted band 1st Lifeguards for you and the others for the Yeomanry Miniatures listing. I will ask Alan for any details of instruments he has on file and we will see what we can do. With reference to your comments with regard to the escort I suspect that it was the same reason my marriage ended.
With luck and a following wind I will soon have completed a Horseguards Maxim Gun and escort. I will post pictures on the Yeomanry Miniatures thread when it is ready.
Regards,
Brian.
Marvelous Brian! How exciting. At long last I can have something to paint that I have wanted for such a long time.
My preference would be for the 1st Lifeguards Mounted Band in Review Order, circa 1900-ish. Looks like we have an amicable agreement there.^&grin
I have only seen pictures of the modern-day band - and instruments include: Clarinet, Cornet, Eupphonium, Piccolo, Saxophone, Tenor Horn, Trombone, and Tuba. I'm not sure when the Bombardon, (Helical Coil - over the shoulder type) would have gone out of useage in Military Bands - but if one was in bands at the time you are going to depict them - then I would love a couple of those. Maybe also a Basson was included back then. Not sure about that either - maybe Alan would know. I always like the maximum number of instruments possible!
The band would include a Director of music and Drum Horse - of course. I would probably go for around six ranks of musicians in files of four ( as modern day band is frequently set up). So we would be talking about 26 mounted figures. Is that about right?
As for an Escorting group? What a good idea, though I would make that an add-on purchase - after the band had been completed - in the interests of matrimonal harmony!{eek3}
Once again though - don't put yourself or Alan under too much pressure to produce this wonderful band to a strict deadline. I have waited around ten years for it - a bit longer won't make any difference. Just nice to know at long last - someone is going to do these Regiments justice - with a superbly sculpted band - available at long last - as castings, for enthusiasts to paint. And yes - I do know others make them - but not like Alan does - I've looked.
Hurrah! - johnnybach
trooper
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For your information, Johnny, the 1st Lifeguards had two bombardons, the 2nd none. Neither regiment had bassoons. Not sure about Royal Horse Guards, bombardons don't appear in any photographs or illustrations in my collection but that doesn't mean that they didn't have them. Trooper
trooper
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Further information about the 1st Lifeguards band c. 1910. Paraded in ranks of five. Band numbered 27 in all. Bandmaster, kettledrummer, 2 bombardon (also known as circular brass tuba), 3 euphonium, 1 bass, 3 trombone, 6 cornet, 4 tenor horn and 6 clarinets. Trooper
johnnybach
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Hi both - as it's the 1st Lifeguards for me - then two Bombardons sound just the job!. So - sounds like a deal. I will look forward to watching the Yeomanary Miniatures posts for developments of the Maxim -( and maybe this new project too). I have seen pics of modern day HC bands with the first four abreast rank as trumpeters on greys. Would either you or Trooper know whether that was the case back in the early 1900's? - I suspect that it might have been so? Thanks both for your inputs.
Haven't done too much with the Canadians today - been digging my veggie plot - and my back's in half!{sm2}
Picture below shows the two nearly completed pipers at the rear - as seen earlier - and three more horses/figures begun. From left to right they show progression of horses. Saddle area and leatherwork dark brown as undercoat first. Then horse painted in main colour - with shading being built up as I go. Horses generally get two or maybe three coats to get shading and depth of colour I want. Centre one has just the one coat on at the rear end - front one has had two coats all over. I hope this shows how I begin to build up the paintwork on each horse.
The piper figure begins with the face, - bandolier same as the saddle - then tunic in khaki. Legs left for later - as too much handling wears paint away. Pipes and arms are painted up separately for a while - I will show that detail later. Note my drying stand - just some wood with holes drilled in it - another good use for the pin in the spot that receives little sunshine, to mount the figure on to aid paint drying!{eek3}Doesn't hurt a bit - unless your finger gets trapped!^&grin
Very pleased with the general look so far - and will keep getting better as I become more familiar with the figures. Love the look , which doesn't look strange at all now - and which will improve as the group grows, I'm sure.
Haven't done too much with the Canadians today - been digging my veggie plot - and my back's in half!{sm2}
Picture below shows the two nearly completed pipers at the rear - as seen earlier - and three more horses/figures begun. From left to right they show progression of horses. Saddle area and leatherwork dark brown as undercoat first. Then horse painted in main colour - with shading being built up as I go. Horses generally get two or maybe three coats to get shading and depth of colour I want. Centre one has just the one coat on at the rear end - front one has had two coats all over. I hope this shows how I begin to build up the paintwork on each horse.
The piper figure begins with the face, - bandolier same as the saddle - then tunic in khaki. Legs left for later - as too much handling wears paint away. Pipes and arms are painted up separately for a while - I will show that detail later. Note my drying stand - just some wood with holes drilled in it - another good use for the pin in the spot that receives little sunshine, to mount the figure on to aid paint drying!{eek3}Doesn't hurt a bit - unless your finger gets trapped!^&grin
Very pleased with the general look so far - and will keep getting better as I become more familiar with the figures. Love the look , which doesn't look strange at all now - and which will improve as the group grows, I'm sure.
johnnybach
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Ah! - great stuff Trooper - you must have posted that listing whilst I was writing that last post of mine. Sounds good - so will go with that set up in five ranks of five rather than fours. So 27 it is - and as I have been married to my first wife (always say that - it keeps them on their toes!) for some considerable time ( not sure on how many years exactly!), the extra one might not push us over the edge! (hopefully!).
[Note: Whenever I ask how many years - she always replies that the next one is a ruby - or a paper - or a gold - or some such gobbledygook - so I never really know! What happened to good old fashioned numbers???] jb:wink2:
[Note: Whenever I ask how many years - she always replies that the next one is a ruby - or a paper - or a gold - or some such gobbledygook - so I never really know! What happened to good old fashioned numbers???] jb:wink2:
trooper
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Regarding your query as to the grey horses, Johnny, at the beginning of the century the greys formed the front rank of the bandas opposed to the present day rear rank, but not playing trumpets. Their formation would have been bombardon, euphonium, euphonium, bass and bombardon. Second rank, clarinet, cornet, trombone, trombone, trombone. Third rank, five cornets. Fourth rank euphonium, and four tenor horns. Fifth rank, five clarinets. Trooper
johnnybach
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Got it! - so my display of these will look like this: (NB. I like things symetrical - and like to visualise).
Out in front Centre - Musical Director
Directly behind, Centre - Kettle Drummer.
First Rank(Mounted on Greys): Bombardon, Euphonium, Bass Tuba, Euphonium, Bombardon
Second Rank, - Clarinet, Trombone, Trombone, Trombone, Cornet
Third Rank - Cornet, Cornet, Cornet, Cornet, Cornet
Fourth Rank Tenor Hn. Tenor Hn. Euphonium Tenor Hn. Tenor Hn.
Fifth Rank - Clarinet, Clarinet, Clarinet, Clarinet, Clarinet
With just the front five mounted on Greys - I'm also assuming that the Drum Horse will be the piebald that I posted earlier in the thread, painted by Simkin and dated at 1909. (though the drummer will be in Review Order).
Okay - given that the bases are around 3cm X 7cm - I think that my deepest cabinet can handle that display - as it is 30cm deep X 70cm wide, they will just about fit, with 3cm between ranks. Unfortunately though, this means that any Escorting Group won't fit that display shelf (unless I squeeze them up - and can then just about manage an extra rank of five Troopers with swords at the carry). Martin may be on at me about the half length of a horse between ranks again though!
Phew! - tight, but will definitely have the Band first - and then review how I can handle any Escort later. Thanks for all of that information Trooper. I always like to be able to visualise (and be able to check how they will fit) a display area - as I don't believe in boxes! Should look stunning like that. I fact - a lot similar to this modern view of the Band.
Thanks both - we're on!
Out in front Centre - Musical Director
Directly behind, Centre - Kettle Drummer.
First Rank(Mounted on Greys): Bombardon, Euphonium, Bass Tuba, Euphonium, Bombardon
Second Rank, - Clarinet, Trombone, Trombone, Trombone, Cornet
Third Rank - Cornet, Cornet, Cornet, Cornet, Cornet
Fourth Rank Tenor Hn. Tenor Hn. Euphonium Tenor Hn. Tenor Hn.
Fifth Rank - Clarinet, Clarinet, Clarinet, Clarinet, Clarinet
With just the front five mounted on Greys - I'm also assuming that the Drum Horse will be the piebald that I posted earlier in the thread, painted by Simkin and dated at 1909. (though the drummer will be in Review Order).
Okay - given that the bases are around 3cm X 7cm - I think that my deepest cabinet can handle that display - as it is 30cm deep X 70cm wide, they will just about fit, with 3cm between ranks. Unfortunately though, this means that any Escorting Group won't fit that display shelf (unless I squeeze them up - and can then just about manage an extra rank of five Troopers with swords at the carry). Martin may be on at me about the half length of a horse between ranks again though!
Phew! - tight, but will definitely have the Band first - and then review how I can handle any Escort later. Thanks for all of that information Trooper. I always like to be able to visualise (and be able to check how they will fit) a display area - as I don't believe in boxes! Should look stunning like that. I fact - a lot similar to this modern view of the Band.
Thanks both - we're on!
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