70th anniversary of the Bangka massacre (1 Viewer)

[Currahee Chris]

Chris..

Once again, you think its about disagreeing. I did not really mention in my post Bushido at all. I mentioned a code that the japanese followed (whether written or implied)

If I took a defensive/accusatory tone that was not the intent- admittedly I began my response and then had several people come in and out of my office while I was replying so my train of thought was on and off again. Admittedly, when one reads "code" in the context of Japanese militarism, one naturally assumes someone is discussing bushido which is what I did- rightly or wrongly.

Either way, not really sure why you came down as hard on me as you as I really didn't see my response as provactive- if you took it that way, all apologies. Either way, it does seem to provide some insight as to what I am perceiving as some bad blood in relation to some LAH issues which we discussed in the past- I assumed it was past us, guess it wasn't. For what it's worth I have moved on.

Anyway, just to clear the air, my initial post, good bad or indifferent, was simply discussing my views on what or how I saw the manipulation of the Bushido code by the Japanese ruling powers/elite/ decision makers, what have you. It really wasn't meant to be argumentative, just adding my two cents based upon my understanding and reading of the code.

Take care
C

 

[Currahee Chris]

I am lost where the leaders of Japan, the emperor, imbued Bushido into the people!!! that train of thought was imbued into the people from what, the 12th century or so and, the emporer was, almost god like. so, if he had decreed die this way which, could have been seen as a dogs death (unworthy) under the code you speak of, the people would have followed regardless of the bushido code.

I think you try to hard to find issues in posts that are not there as with the LAH recently and, while I enjoy debating with you I do agree that you have made it a point whereby its supposedly, my point against yours and, no common ground. Do you think I am supporting the japanese now because I have not jumped in and said how outrageous they are??

Ok- you did make/raise several questions- no, my point wasn't that Bushido was imbued on the people but that it was perverted/twisted, etc into some very harsh and cruel positions that people take as fact when looking into Japanese culture- again, just my opinion on the subject. I attempted to illustrate that in a position similar to how the Bible was betrayed dduring the Crusades, Qu'ran today, etc, etc. That's all, if you failed to get that then that was my failure in communication.

Your second paragraph is pretty unfair I would think and it seems you seem to keep bringing this up- again, as I told you via pm, I always like to meet people face to face before I draw my conclusions on people- I believe that is fair. I never said I thought you had Nazi tendancies or whatever- nor am I making a point saying here that you are supportive of the IJA?? ^&confuse^&confuse

 

[waynepoo]

My elderly Uncles and Aunties (who have now passed, bless them) some of whom suffered badly and lost loved ones at the cruel hands of average Japanese soldiers, were working class Australians of that era and thus had a simple and straight forward way of expression, I recall an Uncle who lost a brother murdered on the Burma Railway, say when commenting on the dropping of the A-bombs "Best bloody thing the Yanks ever did." Until their passing there was not forgiving of the Japanese.
Wayne.

 

[Rob]

Well I guess I won't post the article I was about to; 'Haig or Monty-who was the greater general' , because my friend Louis may fly all the way over here and shoot me!^&grin:wink2:

Rob

 

[waynepoo]

Well I guess I won't post the article I was about to; 'Haig or Monty-who was the greater general' , because my friend Louis may fly all the way over here and shoot me!^&grin:wink2:

Rob

Rob,
That's a easy one mate, Monty. :rolleyes2:
Wayne.

 

[Rob]

Rob,
That's a easy one mate, Monty. :rolleyes2:
Wayne.

Wayne, I'm just kidding mate, no such article:wink2:

Rob

 

[waynepoo]

Wayne, I'm just kidding mate, no such article:wink2:

Rob

Rob,
So was I.{sm4}:wink2:
Wayne.

 

[Jack]

Well I guess I won't post the article I was about to; 'Haig or Monty-who was the greater general' , because my friend Louis may fly all the way over here and shoot me!^&grin:wink2:

Rob

I am away from my library at the moment so cannot check, but I have a book by John Terraine that asserts the viewpoint (or discusses the view, which is, of course, a different thing) that Haig has been treated poorly by history. It does this, again from memory, by asking whether the victories of 1918 would have been possible without the bloodbaths of 1916 and 1917, and later by comparing the casualty figures from the Battle of the Somme and Waterloo. Though the numbers are obviously much higher at the Somme, the percentages are not. If we discount the units which were annihilated (I mean for statistical purposes, not discounting their valour and sacrifice) the numbers are very similar. Again from memory, it was about 33 percent that units in both battles could expect to suffer. Its just that armies were bigger and the battles longer.

I will post the exact figures when re-united with my books, but I suggest that Haig was not as bad as we think and Monty was not as good.

 

[Rob]

Rob,
So was I.{sm4}:wink2:
Wayne.

^&grin

Rob

 

[Jack]

Wayne, I'm just kidding mate, no such article:wink2:

Rob

English humour - so understated!

 

[Rob]

English humour - so understated!

Apart from Benny Hill!:wink2:

Rob

 

[uksubs]

Another anniversary of another inhuman act against unarmed people.

http:// Rob[/QUOTE] Thank for posting the link Rob

 

[Mitch]

Chris...

Just making it clear mate in case I was tagged by anyone. I tried some of those glasses today that Tojo always wore and they knackered my eyes so, I will stick with my stance That I dislike the japanese and what they did in WWII even though, I can understand as a culture why they did it. Here is another for my unique moral code I won't have japanese troops in the house I just don't like them!!!
Mitch

Ok- you did make/raise several questions- no, my point wasn't that Bushido was imbued on the people but that it was perverted/twisted, etc into some very harsh and cruel positions that people take as fact when looking into Japanese culture- again, just my opinion on the subject. I attempted to illustrate that in a position similar to how the Bible was betrayed dduring the Crusades, Qu'ran today, etc, etc. That's all, if you failed to get that then that was my failure in communication.

Your second paragraph is pretty unfair I would think and it seems you seem to keep bringing this up- again, as I told you via pm, I always like to meet people face to face before I draw my conclusions on people- I believe that is fair. I never said I thought you had Nazi tendancies or whatever- nor am I making a point saying here that you are supportive of the IJA?? ^&confuse^&confuse

 

[uksubs]

Hi Chris. I completely agree about the A-bomb. A terrible weapon. The tragedy is that the Japanese put the US in the position of having to make the decision to use it. As you say, a decision that had to be made. With all the discussion of the Japanese and their reasons for treating POW's and civilians the way that they did, it is important to note that race was a huge factor. Although it was an East vs West racial superiority problem at the core of the mistreatment, the Japanese also saw themselves as superior to other Eastern cultures as well. The treatment by the Japanese of the people of all the territories that they occupied was horrendous. The Japanese massacre of Chinese was a constant and was racially driven to a large degree. The Pacific War was an ugly race war as much as anything else, an unfortunate clash of cultures that knew little about each other. The Japanese carried it to the extreme. -- Al

You say that dropping the A bomb was bad but what about the fire bombing of Tokyo

 

[lancer]

You say that dropping the A bomb was bad but what about the fire bombing of Tokyo

If you read my post #14 in this thread, I explain what I feel about the use of the A-bomb. The A-bomb is a bad weapon, but so are all weapons. As bad as the A-bomb is, it's use drove the Japanese to surrender, something the bombing of Tokyo and other cities had NOT accomplished. I'm not getting into a discussion about the merits of the bombing campaigns of WW2, regardless of who was doing the bombing or getting bombed. It was all horrible. My point is that the A-bomb was neccesary to convince the Japanese that further fighting was pointless. They realized that it was a weapon for which they had no answer. The Japanese felt that they could resist and survive regular bombing and could continue the fight, not so with the A-bomb. -- Al

 

[Louis Badolato]

Well I guess I won't post the article I was about to; 'Haig or Monty-who was the greater general' , because my friend Louis may fly all the way over here and shoot me!^&grin:wink2:

Rob

Not at all. Monty would get my vote as clearly superior to Haig . . . although it is kind of a race to the bottom!{sm2}

 

[Rob]

Not at all. Monty would get my vote as clearly superior to Haig . . . although it is kind of a race to the bottom!{sm2}

{sm4}

Morning Louis, how are you today mate?

Rob

 

[Jack]

Apart from Benny Hill!:wink2:

Rob

I'm more of a Dave Allen, The Goodies, Yes Minister, Blackadder kind of guy!

 

[Rob]

I'm more of a Dave Allen, The Goodies, Yes Minister, Blackadder kind of guy!

Obviously a man of great taste, Dave Allen was wonderful and for me Blackadder along with Dads Army are the two best we've produced.

Rob

 

[Jack]

Obviously a man of great taste, Dave Allen was wonderful and for me Blackadder along with Dads Army are the two best we've produced.

Rob

Although I was once heard to observe in a very left leaning staffroom 'Wasn't Margaret Thatcher attractive when she was young'.