A Matter of Taste… A Question of Opinion (1 Viewer)

[Panzer ace]

I had to check the date on this post to make sure it was not part of some April Fool’s joke.

I would also like to preface my post by stating that I respect each and every collector or model maker’s work when it comes to dioramas. The time and dedication that is involved in the creation and completion of such endeavors is immeasurable.

With all that said, in my FBO, Gordon’s dioramas are beyond compare. The materials, the design, the presentation and the presence they create within a collection make them what they are. The attention to detail is beyond precise and one can spend hours looking for and finding the most finite details within the superior craftsmanship.

Are you paying for the name when you buy it? Perhaps, but along with that ‘name’ you are getting excellence and perfection. Whatever the product might be, that type of distinction does not come cheap.

 

[The Military Workshop]

I am an outspoken collector. At soon to be $50 for a single figure we collectors deserve high quality in return. When there is a release that does not meet that standard I as well as a few others on this forum post about it and then members whom do not agree post their opinions. To members such as yourself whom are admitted bias in favor of K&C this seems to them as being anti-K&C, "Debbie Downers" or just negative with K&C all together. What feeds this fire is when Andy responds to this criticism with the tone I describe as "they are picking on poor me again" which is not the case. In fact it is him whom initiates some of these debates on posts he starts like this one referring to me as our old chum which in my opinion is a red flag for bias members to stand by his side. I dont hate Andy or his products,just the ones that look bad and or overpriced.

Keith

Keith,
I make a distinction between different types of criticism of K&C / Andy. Comments about price and accuracy are a
different kind of comment.

However you seem to hold Andy to a higher level of customer service or standards than you do the heads of other brands
you collect. I gave the example of "dishonouring" Medal of Honour winners below. Another example is in the
Dancing as fast I can thread where you said

" I have a very challenging and demanding job. I work long hours,I'm on-call when I'm not working.I see the best and worst in people everyday. I come home to a wife and 4 small children everyday thank god. Home life is busier than work it seems. I guarantee I do not earn the wages that Andy makes. Yet I still make time to volunteer in my community and local hospital and coach little league. I don't think that answering a few customers questions or writing "nice dio" once in a while seems like a very difficult thing to do considering that its reaching out to your own customers that purchase,purchased,or will be purchasing your merchandise. its just part of customer service and being polite in showing appreciation. So you don't have to dance so fast,just be a good dancer.

I have no idea why Andy's wages, or your vulunteeer community work and little league is relevant. However I am pretty sure Andy spends less time with his family than you do simply because he spends so much time overseas meeting
collectors and replying to messages etc. Yet you want him to devote even more of his time to posts such as
"nice dio" etc. Andy answers far more questions on this forum than any other brand.

I dont recall you ever asking for the "nice dio" level of customer service from any other brand or suggesting they
donate thousands of dollars worth of product to a memorial or charity. I dont think it could be disputed that Andy
spends more of his time interacting with his collectors than probably three or four of his competitors combined.

Just thought I would explain the difference in the kind of comments you make.

Regards
Brett

 

[MarkeytMaker]

I was just thinking...

 

[Colonel RNZIR]

I was just thinking...

I thought this forum was about TOY SOLDIERS,not a bunch of chaps going blah blah.
Have any of you actually taken the time to visit Andy and Gordon in Hong Kong.I first met them both in 2009,I arrived at 11.30am and got to talk to Gordon about diorama making for over an hour,then Andy took me out to lunch and we talked to 3pm,it was a friday but Andy made time to see me.
I was recently in Hong Kong and caught up with Andy and Helen,I met them at 4.00pm and chatted to them until 7.15pm.
I find it rather amusing to see that some of you apparently work all day and do volunteer work.
When I deploy overseas,I don't have the luxury of finishing work,we work 24 hours a day,seven days a week, the rather nasty insurgents like to blow things up in the night.
If you don't like the market price of King and Country Soldiers, don't buy them.
As for dioramas,why don't you try and make some yourself,they are alot of fun but take some time,my Arnhem Bridge took me a few months,but well worth it
King and Country sell world wide not just to the Northern Hemisphere.

 

[Poppo]

Keith,
I make a distinction between different types of criticism of K&C / Andy. Comments about price and accuracy are a
different kind of comment.

However you seem to hold Andy to a higher level of customer service or standards than you do the heads of other brands
you collect. I gave the example of "dishonouring" Medal of Honour winners below. Another example is in the
Dancing as fast I can thread where you said

" I have a very challenging and demanding job. I work long hours,I'm on-call when I'm not working.I see the best and worst in people everyday. I come home to a wife and 4 small children everyday thank god. Home life is busier than work it seems. I guarantee I do not earn the wages that Andy makes. Yet I still make time to volunteer in my community and local hospital and coach little league. I don't think that answering a few customers questions or writing "nice dio" once in a while seems like a very difficult thing to do considering that its reaching out to your own customers that purchase,purchased,or will be purchasing your merchandise. its just part of customer service and being polite in showing appreciation. So you don't have to dance so fast,just be a good dancer.

I have no idea why Andy's wages, or your vulunteeer community work and little league is relevant. However I am pretty sure Andy spends less time with his family than you do simply because he spends so much time overseas meeting
collectors and replying to messages etc. Yet you want him to devote even more of his time to posts such as
"nice dio" etc. Andy answers far more questions on this forum than any other brand.

I dont recall you ever asking for the "nice dio" level of customer service from any other brand or suggesting they
donate thousands of dollars worth of product to a memorial or charity. I dont think it could be disputed that Andy
spends more of his time interacting with his collectors than probably three or four of his competitors combined.

Just thought I would explain the difference in the kind of comments you make.

Regards
Brett

Well, I think the positions are clear: some people don' t want KC to be criticized in any way, or pretend there can be only the criticisms they like( but what a boredom just reading " wonderful" " super"!!)....Other people want to be free to express any kind of criticism or point of view they feel....As this is a forum, we will see more of such discussions as some people will keep on writing their points of view that you or KC like it or not...There can be sarcastic replies to criticism, no problem for me, this is also a freedom of speech.

 

[Rob]

I thought this forum was about TOY SOLDIERS,not a bunch of chaps going blah blah.
Have any of you actually taken the time to visit Andy and Gordon in Hong Kong.I first met them both in 2009,I arrived at 11.30am and got to talk to Gordon about diorama making for over an hour,then Andy took me out to lunch and we talked to 3pm,it was a friday but Andy made time to see me.
I was recently in Hong Kong and caught up with Andy and Helen,I met them at 4.00pm and chatted to them until 7.15pm.
I find it rather amusing to see that some of you apparently work all day and do volunteer work.
When I deploy overseas,I don't have the luxury of finishing work,we work 24 hours a day,seven days a week, the rather nasty insurgents like to blow things up in the night.
If you don't like the market price of King and Country Soldiers, don't buy them.
As for dioramas,why don't you try and make some yourself,they are alot of fun but take some time,my Arnhem Bridge took me a few months,but well worth it
King and Country sell world wide not just to the Northern Hemisphere.

I do agree here, speaking for myself I've made a few dio's over the years and they do take some considerable time, effort and expenditure and my work is not in the same league as Gordon's. The time and effort that goes into his work must be huge.

Rob

 

[Fat Boy]

I do agree here, speaking for myself I've made a few dio's over the years and they do take some considerable time, effort and expenditure and my work is not in the same league as Gordon's. The time and effort that goes into his work must be huge.

Rob

And when we see pictures again? ^&grin

 

[Rob]

And when we see pictures again? ^&grin

Well I've got everything I need for my next one now, but I've promised my wife that this week I'll be doing gardening / DIY , so with a bit of luck I can get started next week:wink2:

Rob

 

[TomNT]

Well I've got everything I need for my next one now, but I've promised my wife that this week I'll be doing gardening / DIY , so with a bit of luck I can get started next week:wink2:

Rob

Don't get to keen on the gardening Rob and do yourself an injury that will prevent you from building that dio!

Tom

 

[Rob]

Don't get to keen on the gardening Rob and do yourself an injury that will prevent you from building that dio!

Tom

^&grin

No chance my friend, no chance at all:wink2:

Rob

 

[Napoleon1er]

I do agree here, speaking for myself I've made a few dio's over the years and they do take some considerable time, effort and expenditure and my work is not in the same league as Gordon's. The time and effort that goes into his work must be huge.

Rob

When I do dioramas, I often find myself preparing components like buildings or even small pieces of buildings or trees, and then throwing them all together in half an hour. It's kind of like topping a pizza! I have a couple of favorite diorama makers- Gordon is one of them. Each person has there own style. Some styles work better with some figures or eras, or look better to some eyes. I happen to like Ken's work, Artmibigur's work, Guy's work, Gordon's work, and of course Mike and Nick's stuff, since they taught me all I know.
-Sandor

 

[Jack]

Well, I think the positions are clear: some people don' t want KC to be criticized in any way, or pretend there can be only the criticisms they like( but what a boredom just reading " wonderful" " super"!!)....Other people want to be free to express any kind of criticism or point of view they feel....As this is a forum, we will see more of such discussions as some people will keep on writing their points of view that you or KC like it or not...There can be sarcastic replies to criticism, no problem for me, this is also a freedom of speech.

I suppose one of the issues here is the question of bias on both sides. Your post suggests that those who defend K & C are working from a clear agenda while the critics are a valiant band of collectors motivated only by a desire to engage in free and open discussion. I am happy to accept that some people will defend K & C and/or Andy to the death on all issues, but I am also conscious that others are happy to criticise K & C and/or Andy as their default position and make demands of him that seem to be rarely made of others. You have two opposing factions and it is, respectfully, a mistake to identify the fanaticism of one side and deny the existence of it on the other.

 

[Poppo]

I suppose one of the issues here is the question of bias on both sides. Your post suggests that those who defend K & C are working from a clear agenda while the critics are a valiant band of collectors motivated only by a desire to engage in free and open discussion. I am happy to accept that some people will defend K & C and/or Andy to the death on all issues, but I am also conscious that others are happy to criticise K & C and/or Andy as their default position and make demands of him that seem to be rarely made of others. You have two opposing factions and it is, respectfully, a mistake to identify the fanaticism of one side and deny the existence of it on the other.

Jack,

I don' t accuse anybody of fanaticism, believe me, I really like to read everybody' s opinions.We all love this hobby so much, so I consider all of you like my friends even when I have a different opinion.And I also appreciate a lot KC and the bigger part of my collection is made of it.
Sure sometimes it is interesting to discuss, but never with fanatic purposes

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I suppose one of the issues here is the question of bias on both sides. Your post suggests that those who defend K & C are working from a clear agenda while the critics are a valiant band of collectors motivated only by a desire to engage in free and open discussion. I am happy to accept that some people will defend K & C and/or Andy to the death on all issues, but I am also conscious that others are happy to criticise K & C and/or Andy as their default position and make demands of him that seem to be rarely made of others. You have two opposing factions and it is, respectfully, a mistake to identify the fanaticism of one side and deny the existence of it on the other.

I agree as collectors do place huge demands on King&Country. Remarkably IMO K&C meets most reasonable requests.Month after month putting out a lot of new products......dispatches ! Those who choose to voice their opinions should be able to do so without backlash, as without these opinions we have no forum.
At times though in all fairness it seems K&C is the first one to get prodded if everything is not suitable to everyone. King&Country was my very first real Toy Soldier
purchase and will continue to be on my favorites list ^&grin

 

[Mitch]

K&C attract the attention they do because they are the biggest company in the hobby at least in terms of output. That may not please some and, its obvious it does not but, in any hobby you get the weird who take it too far and this is no difference. There are those who can be called fanatics or similar who over protect K&C and FL and, those who over insult both just for the sake.

What is surprising is that this type of rather bizarre behaviour only really happens with these two manufacturers in the mat sections and does not happen really in TG,CS or figarti.

I agree that its a rather lop sided hobby if all that really can be said is how rosy things are in the hobby garden when a forum about TS is about it as a whole warts and all so, the saying goes. Both the good and the bad of the hobby should be discussed maturally and sensibly.

If either side cannot see that then really thats their issues they need to resolve. Plenty of room for the rah rah and the nah nah as each can be equally annoying in their own way
Mitch