A Plea for a Prussian! (1 Viewer)

[vandilay]

I agree with you that no one in their right mind will buy a First Legion Figure for 4-5X's the normal retail cost....Most of us are not that stupid....I am not asking a manufacturer to over-produce products that will not sell.....That's Ridiculous and makes no business sense....But if there is collector DEMAND to purchase more of a product why not produce it??.... First Legion was correct to produce more Imperial Romans when they realized that collectors wanted more of them....Well Done First Legion:salute::.....It was much appreciated by many and of course (a few complained)......As for credibility?? Shot to Pieces???....Give me a break...NO WAY...the only people who think this way are speculators.....First Legion should decide that policy as they see fit....and alter it as they see fit....Personally I am not about to question First Legion's credibility if they choose to re-produce certain products.... If First Legion has a great and popular product that collectors still want to purchase and they decide to re-release more to sell....I say GREAT.....It's all fine by me...No problem and none of my business.....Most guys do not collect TS as investments....And I do not celebrate the fact that: "I have it and you don't". E-nuff said

You seem fairly hung up on this whole speculator/investment issue , I will just leave you to run with that .
I just enjoy what I can get and don't sweat what I miss out on or other people choose to do with their time and money.
If you cant see how producing more of a figure that was a ltd edition [and the Prussian flag bearer was] could
damage credibility then your expectations of a company backing its advertising are different to mine.

 

[g18]

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems that most of the newer releases are not limited edition or strictly limited edition. Perhaps FL will have more flexibility with their production numbers going forward - able to adjust according to demand. Seems like a good thing for collectors needing a more measured pace for their purchases.

I think FL can serve collectors better and at the same time attain their deserved rewards for providing a coveted product by meeting demand with appropriate supply. This way, more collectors can have a better chance to build their collection at retail prices and also channel the appropriate spending $ to the manufacturer rather than to those trying to turn a profit from trading on such items.

 

[Jack]

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems that most of the newer releases are not limited edition or strictly limited edition. Perhaps FL will have more flexibility with their production numbers going forward - able to adjust according to demand. Seems like a good thing for collectors needing a more measured pace for their purchases.

I think FL can serve collectors better and at the same time attain their deserved rewards for providing a coveted product by meeting demand with appropriate supply. This way, more collectors can have a better chance to build their collection at retail prices and also channel the appropriate spending $ to the manufacturer rather than to those trying to turn a profit from trading on such items.

Although I am not a First Legion collector it is an interesting question at a general level. I can never catch up with my list of 'wants'. I end up buying across four or five manufacturers in the order that I think a product may run out/get retired/ cease production or whatever a particular manufacturer chooses to call it. Is it in any manufacturers interests to let me collect from one of the competitors and plan my purchase of their product for a vague 'future purchase' that may or may not occur? Is a measured pace what a manufacturer of any product is looking for?

 

[Mitch]

Looking at FL they have had very few limited figures and on the whole most of their figures etc stay around for quite some time. That may at one time have been an acknowledgement that the items were more pricy but, as other manufacturers close in in terms of price I think that may be mute now.

I am not a fan of limited editions as I think its a marketing gimmick that plays on some collectors minds and forces them to almost panic buy. Its almost like they see the release number and words limited before they actually look at the piece and see if they actually want it.
Mitch

 

[g18]

Although I am not a First Legion collector it is an interesting question at a general level. I can never catch up with my list of 'wants'. I end up buying across four or five manufacturers in the order that I think a product may run out/get retired/ cease production or whatever a particular manufacturer chooses to call it. Is it in any manufacturers interests to let me collect from one of the competitors and plan my purchase of their product for a vague 'future purchase' that may or may not occur? Is a measured pace what a manufacturer of any product is looking for?

On the other hand, they can also lose a purchase of an entire range like what I have come to adopt with the British guards and Prussians. It is perhaps more sustainable for them in the long run to win genuine collectors who think carefully before they buy and once they have decided will adopt a measured pace of purchase that will eventually involve a acquisition of an entire range. This good purchasing experience could result in further sales. This is just one perspective and a manufacturer could perhaps think about this as the type of relationship they want to create with their collectors - one based on a fulfilling and pleasant collecting experience rather than one that is based on panic and haphazard buying that may be confused with what might run out first rather than what one really want.

 

[g18]

I am not a fan of limited editions as I think its a marketing gimmick that plays on some collectors minds and forces them to almost panic buy. Its almost like they see the release number and words limited before they actually look at the piece and see if they actually want it.
Mitch

Indeed, all the more collectors should think carefully about how they want to build their collection, especially with prices increasing and with so many products coming to market competing for purchasing $.

I would hope to purchase products that I can have a long-term enjoyment in. There have been less well-thought out purchases which I am now saddled with. Even though I am quite ready to accept a loss (but hopefully not too much) on most of them to get some $ to finance new purchases, I am not really a fan of ebay and such because it's such a hassle. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind owning them because I still do like them but I do not live in an ideal world of limitless funds and shelf space. Such is my dilemna now. Just my personal experience to share and I urge those who are new to the hobby to take their time to learn about themselves and their area of interest and stick to some collecting principles that give them sustainable enjoyment beyond what they think something might fetch in the secondary market. Ultimately, a great purchase is one that you really like even if it is worth much less in the market.

 

[Jack]

On the other hand, they can also lose a purchase of an entire range like what I have come to adopt with the British guards and Prussians. It is perhaps more sustainable for them in the long run to win genuine collectors who think carefully before they buy and once they have decided will adopt a measured pace of purchase that will eventually involve a acquisition of an entire range. This good purchasing experience could result in further sales. This is just one perspective and a manufacturer could perhaps think about this as the type of relationship they want to create with their collectors - one based on a fulfilling and pleasant collecting experience rather than one that is based on panic and haphazard buying that may be confused with what might run out first rather than what one really want.

Interesting response and I see a lot of truth in it. Thanks for taking the time. A question though - did you retain the money you would have spent or did you direct it to another FL regiment?

I went into my shop today and had three potential purchases (from three different manufacturers) to spread over the next three weeks. I asked my dealer if he had enough stock of each of the three to ensure I did not miss out. Had he been short on one that would have got my money. I would naturally have postponed the purchase I could safely make later in the year.

He had enough stock of each of the three so I asked for his recommendation. He recommended the dearest!

 

[Vezzolf]

On the other hand, they can also lose a purchase of an entire range like what I have come to adopt with the British guards and Prussians. It is perhaps more sustainable for them in the long run to win genuine collectors who think carefully before they buy and once they have decided will adopt a measured pace of purchase that will eventually involve a acquisition of an entire range. This good purchasing experience could result in further sales. This is just one perspective and a manufacturer could perhaps think about this as the type of relationship they want to create with their collectors - one based on a fulfilling and pleasant collecting experience rather than one that is based on panic and haphazard buying that may be confused with what might run out first rather than what one really want.

Excellent Post

 

[The Military Workshop]

An interesting thread as this issue relates to all brands.

As I understand it the figure that started the thread was released 4 years ago and the original poster missed out. I do agree with the recommendation earlier in thread that people should buy Officer, Flag bearer, drummer type figures first before the basic infantry. My experience is that collectors do start off with those figure types. However once it reaches the point that the command figures have gone then the attraction of that regiment seriously declines for new collectors just starting. They will only start if they can get them. This might be why some speculators are choosing such figures.

Having said that brands such as FL have to move on with new releases which sell at a faster rate than a re-run of an older figure. I think it is a bit much to expect that manufacturers would do re-runs because some collectors discover the item a few years too late or in some cases did not buy it at the time because they were collecting something else.

However an interesting point is that Frank now realises that Ebay is not a conspiracy by a particular brand to gauge collectors. It is the speculators who gauge and not the brand they are selling. However any Ebay buyer who wants to pay $415 to get something is presumably happy to do so. Nobody is forcing them to buy.

Brett

Note to Jack : It was also the biggest of the three{sm4}

 

[Jack]

Note to Jack : It was also the biggest of the three{sm4}

Yes - our friend Tom from the Northern Territory could have driven that tank home!

 

[g18]

Interesting response and I see a lot of truth in it. Thanks for taking the time. A question though - did you retain the money you would have spent or did you direct it to another FL regiment?

I went into my shop today and had three potential purchases (from three different manufacturers) to spread over the next three weeks. I asked my dealer if he had enough stock of each of the three to ensure I did not miss out. Had he been short on one that would have got my money. I would naturally have postponed the purchase I could safely make later in the year.

He had enough stock of each of the three so I asked for his recommendation. He recommended the dearest!

I held on to the $ for some time and consider other purchases. Some of the money went to FL, some go to other manufacturers.

Perhaps you can think about the direction your collecting is taking you. I constantly think about it and it changes so much over the years. Nowadays, I go slow and give time to adjust my buying to reflect my changing taste. I also think carefully about adding new areas of collection - all too often, we start too many fronts and it overwhelm us. May be it's just a coincidence that the dealer recommended the dearest. But take your time to choose what really works for you.

 

[Jack]

I held on to the $ for some time and consider other purchases. Some of the money went to FL, some go to other manufacturers.

Perhaps you can think about the direction your collecting is taking you. I constantly think about it and it changes so much over the years. Nowadays, I go slow and give time to adjust my buying to reflect my changing taste. I also think carefully about adding new areas of collection - all too often, we start too many fronts and it overwhelm us. May be it's just a coincidence that the dealer recommended the dearest. But take your time to choose what really works for you.

Yes, your advice is sound. I am collecting into a number of ranges that were not part of the original plan. As I indicated on another another thread I wish I'd been more selective within the ranges rather than buying one of each figure. I have a number of marching Napoleonics - one from each regiment - that are a waste. I should either have got more or passed on them completely.

I am friends with my dealer so it was a source of some amusement that he selected the dearest. He sometimes puts on drinks and nibblies so it all evens out in the end!

 

[johnnybach]

One answer to this conundrum, may be to decide at the very start, to buy from a manufacturer who does not make these "limited editions" of what you like to collect - and will always be producing the figures that you want - whenever you decide (or can afford) to buy them. I know that's what I do.

As a painter myself, I know of plenty of these - usually "Cottage Industries" who, as a bonus, will sell you those same figures painted in Matte, Gloss - or even unpainted castings, (if that's what you want). I frequently make up some figures - like what I find - and decide to increase numbers/poses etc, later on. Because I choose to buy from people who can handle that - No Problemo!

Of course, if ONLY the figures from X or Y Company will do - then you have to realise that this sort of shortage with particular figures is going to happen - sooner or later - and that you will just have to live with it.

A question though - Have you ever let the manufacturer of the figures where this may have happened to you KNOW that this has happened - and how much you don't like it?? Maybe if you did - they might just think twice about their policies.

Just a few thoughts. jb

 

[Gebhard]

An interesting thread as this issue relates to all brands.

As I understand it the figure that started the thread was released 4 years ago and the original poster missed out. I do agree with the recommendation earlier in thread that people should buy Officer, Flag bearer, drummer type figures first before the basic infantry. My experience is that collectors do start off with those figure types. However once it reaches the point that the command figures have gone then the attraction of that regiment seriously declines for new collectors just starting. They will only start if they can get them. This might be why some speculators are choosing such figures.

Having said that brands such as FL have to move on with new releases which sell at a faster rate than a re-run of an older figure. I think it is a bit much to expect that manufacturers would do re-runs because some collectors discover the item a few years too late or in some cases did not buy it at the time because they were collecting something else.

However an interesting point is that Frank now realises that Ebay is not a conspiracy by a particular brand to gauge collectors. It is the speculators who gauge and not the brand they are selling. However any Ebay buyer who wants to pay $415 to get something is presumably happy to do so. Nobody is forcing them to buy.

Brett

Note to Jack : It was also the biggest of the three{sm4}

Excellent post...Good to see someone who would know also recommend my position on buying standard Bearers and the Drummers first. Its been my experience and has happened to every single line FL have produced and will IMO continue to happen. Another point I'd like to make and one that everyone is overlooking which is that there are many First Legion collectors who maybe can't afford to collect a whole unit or don't have the space and therefore just go for the Standard Bearers to show the unit colors which also adds to the dilemma of them being the first to sell out. I have been telling anyone who listens since day one to go for the Standard Bearer first for just that reason as there are many such guys who just go for them period.

I would also ask some of the guys just how long they think a unit should sit on the shelf waiting to give us time to build a unit. 1,2,3 or 4 plus years seams a far time for me. I think most of the complaints on this thread have noting to do with what FL are doing in terms of their policy on "Limited Editions". When I think of panic buying or marketing limited editions having years to buy a figure doesn't come to mind^&confuse I fully understand where guys who are late to the party would like the party to last forever but sadly that is not the case, the lights are on its time to move on( Bar Lingo) . I think maybe its time to start a thread so guys can ***** about EBAY or Limited editions elsewhere. Gebhard

 

[Gebhard]

I have a number of marching Napoleonics - one from each regiment - that are a waste. I should either have got more or passed on them completely.

Which Unit FL marching Figures do you have ?? I'm always looking to add on and think many are. Thanks Gebhard

 

[Jack]

Which Unit FL marching Figures do you have ?? I'm always looking to add on and think many are. Thanks Gebhard

Sorry - not a collector of FL. Just bored at my desk working and looking for a distraction. If I was I would be happy to sell you each and every one of them for 415 dollars each!!{sm4}

 

[The Military Workshop]

One answer to this conundrum, may be to decide at the very start, to buy from a manufacturer who does not make these "limited editions" of what you like to collect - and will always be producing the figures that you want - whenever you decide (or can afford) to buy them. I know that's what I do.

As a painter myself, I know of plenty of these - usually "Cottage Industries" who, as a bonus, will sell you those same figures painted in Matte, Gloss - or even unpainted castings, (if that's what you want). I frequently make up some figures - like what I find - and decide to increase numbers/poses etc, later on. Because I choose to buy from people who can handle that - No Problemo!

Of course, if ONLY the figures from X or Y Company will do - then you have to realise that this sort of shortage with particular figures is going to happen - sooner or later - and that you will just have to live with it.

A question though - Have you ever let the manufacturer of the figures where this may have happened to you KNOW that this has happened - and how much you don't like it?? Maybe if you did - they might just think twice about their policies.

Just a few thoughts. jb

JB,
Your comparison is between cottage industries that can produce a few figures at a time and factory situations where a minimum run of hundreds is required to make it worthwhile. Really not much point in a collector starting late blaming
the manufacturer for not having any left years after release.

Another issue many do not consider is inventory. Brands such as FL, K&C and Britains have many hundreds of items and may have hundreds of each of them. I just looked to see FL have made over 430 Naps. Manufacturers simply have to move on and drop particular series in order to bring out more variety. Frank calls it the "retirement game".

A few years ago I saw a really nice Polo Ralph Lauren polo shirt that was just the right combination of colours for my taste but I could not justify buying it at the time. Now I cant find it and obviously no longer available. I don't blame Ralph Lauren for not having it available until I made up my mind.

Brett

 

[johnnybach]

JB,
Your comparison is between cottage industries that can produce a few figures at a time and factory situations where a minimum run of hundreds is required to make it worthwhile. Really not much point in a collector starting late blaming
the manufacturer for not having any left years after release.

Another issue many do not consider is inventory. Brands such as FL, K&C and Britains have many hundreds of items and may have hundreds of each of them. I just looked to see FL have made over 430 Naps. Manufacturers simply have to move on and drop particular series in order to bring out more variety. Frank calls it the "retirement game".

A few years ago I saw a really nice Polo Ralph Lauren polo shirt that was just the right combination of colours for my taste but I could not justify buying it at the time. Now I cant find it and obviously no longer available. I don't blame Ralph Lauren for not having it available until I made up my mind.

Brett

Okay - but I think my point about a collector THINKING a bit more - before starting to collect items is still valid.

IF you are going to collect "limited edition" items - which, by definition will stop being produced at some time, and you don't buy them all at the same time - you run the chance of missing out on some.

There ARE other manufacturers out there WHO DON'T DO THIS.

So, if like me, you like to (or maybe can only) spread out your purchases over periods of time - think about this before buying from a manufacturer who will stop selling something at some point.

That's all - jb

 

[Gebhard]

Sorry - not a collector of FL. Just bored at my desk working and looking for a distraction. If I was I would be happy to sell you each and every one of them for 415 dollars each!!{sm4}

LOL{eek3} Sold

 

[spartan71]

Okay - but I think my point about a collector THINKING a bit more - before starting to collect items is still valid.

IF you are going to collect "limited edition" items - which, by definition will stop being produced at some time, and you don't buy them all at the same time - you run the chance of missing out on some.

There ARE other manufacturers out there WHO DON'T DO THIS.

So, if like me, you like to (or maybe can only) spread out your purchases over periods of time - think about this before buying from a manufacturer who will stop selling something at some point.

That's all - jb

I think that every single piece that has been made are limited editions, because every piece will eventually get retired. So your statement that some manufacturers don't do this is misleading.
Now if your point is that no manufacturer, Should ever make something that is very limited. Well, I think that most collectors love that idea of exclusivity, That they have a piece , that only a few has. Essentially their Centerpiece for that particular side of their collection. First Legion made it known from the start on those limited editions. That only a handful will be made from the start. So there was ample warning. I read someplace that Almost all First Legion pieces, that they only made 550 pieces. So I guess all collectors must buy what pieces they can not have without first.