Amazed at some items sold on ebay (1 Viewer)

tdubel

tdubel

Major
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
6,637
As a Russian collector and long time collector, I am amazed at some of the items that sell on ebay. As an example (And I am not linking items here, this is more of a theoretical comment), I just saw a Napoleonic Hussar (Arsenyev copy) sold for $200. It is a copy and not even well painted. I have an original from Arsenyev, it is worth IMO $300 - $400. I guess as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but to pay $200 for an obvious drop cast copy is just insane. Please do not interpret this post as a dig at any Studio who I may not buy from, it is not (this is not directed in that direction). This is not from a named Studio. More the point to this post is I believe there are a lot of uninformed buyers of Russian miniatures out there and I feel bad for what some are buying. When you buy a drop cast item, no matter how well painted, you are being ripped off in my opinion and the original sculpter, producer, modeller is being ripped off too. Not only that, you are paying a premium for a model that from a valuation standpoint, is worthless. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but that only goes so far. I just hate to see it. Again, this is not Attica before any barbs are thrown here.

Point is, do your research before you buy. Russia is and always has been the wild west. There is a lot more backstory to these works of arts, do your homework.

Tom
 
you are right. If you look on eBay at so called St Petersburg figures some are rubbish and often the seller has no idea what the figure is. I was not aware of any negative feedback on Attica. I was considering buying from them myself. Thought they were generally well regarded?
 
I trust Tom on this after walking with him at the Westcoaster multiple times, he is incredibly knowledgeable.
 
Nicholas V Hall said:
you are right. If you look on eBay at so called St Petersburg figures some are rubbish and often the seller has no idea what the figure is. I was not aware of any negative feedback on Attica. I was considering buying from them myself. Thought they were generally well regarded?
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They are. You can buy from them with confidence. I have bought many items from them and they are currently painting another item for me.
 
tdubel said:
As a Russian collector and long time collector, I am amazed at some of the items that sell on ebay. As an example (And I am not linking items here, this is more of a theoretical comment), I just saw a Napoleonic Hussar (Arsenyev copy) sold for $200. It is a copy and not even well painted. I have an original from Arsenyev, it is worth IMO $300 - $400. I guess as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but to pay $200 for an obvious drop cast copy is just insane. Please do not interpret this post as a dig at any Studio who I may not buy from, it is not (this is not directed in that direction). This is not from a named Studio. More the point to this post is I believe there are a lot of uninformed buyers of Russian miniatures out there and I feel bad for what some are buying. When you buy a drop cast item, no matter how well painted, you are being ripped off in my opinion and the original sculpter, producer, modeller is being ripped off too. Not only that, you are paying a premium for a model that from a valuation standpoint, is worthless. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but that only goes so far. I just hate to see it. Again, this is not Attica before any barbs are thrown here.

Point is, do your research before you buy. Russia is and always has been the wild west. There is a lot more backstory to these works of arts, do your homework.

Tom
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By mentioning Attica in the way you did, you are impugning their reputation. It was an unnecessary throw away comment. To do so violates a Forum policy. See https://forum.treefrogtreasures.com...ding-collector-classified-transactions.18247/
 
jazzeum said:
It was an unnecessary throw away comment.
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I agree. But the previous comments were very informative. Although agendas are enemies of facts. Thanks to Tom and Brad for their intelligent contibutions.
Paddy
 
jazzeum said:
By mentioning Attica in the way you did, you are impugning their reputation. It was an unnecessary throw away comment. To do so violates a Forum policy. See https://forum.treefrogtreasures.com...ding-collector-classified-transactions.18247/
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I don't understand your comment. I specifically was not directing at them. They paint original sculpts and give credit to the Original maker's models, I have always commended that. Just because they are not my studio in no way takes away from them in the least. And if I have a differing opinion, it is in no way hurting their reputation, it is my opinion, no more, no less. Would it not be the reverse against my reputation that is being impugned just because I have a different opinion? There is no violation of any rules on that. I specifically made mention of them b/c of a previous post and I didn't want my post here misinterpreted.


Point of my post is that I see bargains on ebay from older studios that are IMO far better than what some of the crap produced in Russia today or copied I should say. A Grudsky/Granada, Zernov, Rochachev, Bijato, Amber figure is worth much more and more original then some of today's stuff. As they say, you can put lipstick on a pig, it is still a pig.

Regarding studios and people, I am happy to start another thread detailing out those details.

Tom
 
paxtoysoldier said:
I agree. But the previous comments were very informative. Although agendas are enemies of facts. Thanks to Tom and Brad for their intelligent contibutions.
Paddy
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Again, what do you agree on that my post was a dig at a specific studio, would suggest you re read my post. If anyone's reputation is being impugned here, I think I have a gripe.
 
tdubel said:
I don't understand your comment. I specifically was not directing at them. They paint original sculpts and give credit to the Original maker's models, I have always commended that. Just because they are not my studio in no way takes away from them in the least. And if I have a differing opinion, it is in no way hurting their reputation, it is my opinion, no more, no less. Would it not be the reverse against my reputation that is being impugned just because I have a different opinion? There is no violation of any rules on that. I specifically made mention of them b/c of a previous post and I didn't want my post here misinterpreted.


Point of my post is that I see bargains on ebay from older studios that are IMO far better than what some of the crap produced in Russia today or copied I should say. A Grudsky/Granada, Zernov, Rochachev, Bijato, Amber figure is worth much more and more original then some of today's stuff. As they say, you can put lipstick on a pig, it is still a pig.

Regarding studios and people, I am happy to start another thread detailing out those details.

Tom
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By mentioning them you created a negative reference about their work and it was not just me who thought so — and in the interests of full transparency they have probably painted or designed 10 to 15 projects for me — but another member, which may have cost them a sale. I had no issues with your comment otherwise because you have many Russian figures, much more than me (although I probably have around 80 or so) and you are definitely more knowledgeable about Russian figures than I am. You have posted about Attica before and in my opinion there was no need to mention them again.
 
Just to be clear and I will just say this again. Nothing at all to do with Attica. I only mentioned them so that it would be clear it was not about them. My comments on this post was specifically directed at a copy of an original Arsenyev I saw sold on ebay that was inferior. That was the catalyst for the conversation.
jazzeum said:
By mentioning them you created a negative reference about their work and it was not just me who thought so — and in the interests of full transparency they have probably painted or designed 10 to 15 projects for me — but another member, which may have cost them a sale. I had no issues with your comment otherwise because you have many Russian figures, much more than me (although I probably have around 80 or so) and you are definitely more knowledgeable about Russian figures than I am. You have posted about Attica before and in my opinion there was no need to mention them again.
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Ok, I get it, but again, let me just say this directly so that all can see - I was not talking about Attica and the only reason I mentioned them was to make clear it wasn't about them.

And while on this point as I am pretty transparent with everything, let me just clear the air and air the laundry so to speak. My disagreement with Attica has nothing to do with their figures, quality, originality or offerings. I had discussed a commission, we agreed on a price, it was a decent amount of money. Having dealt with commissions, art and miniatures and many studios in Russia, when over a certain dollar figure, I have always done a deposit (at least 50%) up front and the balance upon completion when we all agree on the final product. That has been true with Arsenyev, Sineus Studios and Nevskaya (Tatyana - on a Siamese War Elephant), etc. That is just the way it works for me and how it has always been. On a $300 figure, no, that is not an issue but for me, on a $1500 piece, I want to make sure I am in agreement with the final product before I make final payment. That is where our relationship stalled and we could not get past it. No great mystery, it is what it is. Bittersweet as I liked the piece but in no way a knock on their finished product.
 
Dear friends, collectors and colleagues,


We follow the life of this forum with great interest to track the opinions of collectors and to receive fair feedback. We quite rarely respond or comment on anything, since this is still a forum for collectors, not producers. However, we think we should respond to the topic as Attica has been mentioned. We were concerned that the words drop cast copies and our company's name were put in the same message. Of course, there are no accusations here, but this may look alarming to those who are not yet familiar with our studio and the principles of its work. Thank you Tom for further clarifying your thoughts. Thank you so much Brad for staying a loyal customer of Attica.

Tom, you named many good studios that create and paint very beautiful figures. Some were founded in the previous century and their path provides an example for younger studios like ours, while some studios appeared relatively recently. Some studios paint only original figures, while others do not hesitate to use recasted ones. Some studios continue to work in Russia and pay taxes there, others chose to relocate the business. It is up to a customer to choose what to pay for (exclusivity, authenticity, reputation, etc.), but we have always been staying on the real producers’ side.

We have always been and remain as loyal to our customers as possible. We were happy to provide installment plans and solid discounts until 2022. But in 2022, the war began and our studio was severely shaken. We decided to transfer our legal entity and partly logistics abroad due to a number of circumstances that I cannot talk about openly. I won’t describe all the difficulties we encountered, but besides, it was quite expensive. We had to be not as flexible as before when we could afford to take not the most profitable orders from regular customers, and provide both a discount and installments at the same time. Until recently, we provided customers with the choice of a big discount for a large order extended over a long period of time or installment plan. Now we can provide a good discount, even if you pay in installments.

P.S. I would be really glad to send you greetings from the Russian wild west, but unfortunately I’m not in Russia now.

wild-west.png



Best regards,
Ivan
 
Attica Miniatures said:
Dear friends, collectors and colleagues,


We follow the life of this forum with great interest to track the opinions of collectors and to receive fair feedback. We quite rarely respond or comment on anything, since this is still a forum for collectors, not producers. However, we think we should respond to the topic as Attica has been mentioned. We were concerned that the words drop cast copies and our company's name were put in the same message. Of course, there are no accusations here, but this may look alarming to those who are not yet familiar with our studio and the principles of its work. Thank you Tom for further clarifying your thoughts. Thank you so much Brad for staying a loyal customer of Attica.

Tom, you named many good studios that create and paint very beautiful figures. Some were founded in the previous century and their path provides an example for younger studios like ours, while some studios appeared relatively recently. Some studios paint only original figures, while others do not hesitate to use recasted ones. Some studios continue to work in Russia and pay taxes there, others chose to relocate the business. It is up to a customer to choose what to pay for (exclusivity, authenticity, reputation, etc.), but we have always been staying on the real producers’ side.

We have always been and remain as loyal to our customers as possible. We were happy to provide installment plans and solid discounts until 2022. But in 2022, the war began and our studio was severely shaken. We decided to transfer our legal entity and partly logistics abroad due to a number of circumstances that I cannot talk about openly. I won’t describe all the difficulties we encountered, but besides, it was quite expensive. We had to be not as flexible as before when we could afford to take not the most profitable orders from regular customers, and provide both a discount and installments at the same time. Until recently, we provided customers with the choice of a big discount for a large order extended over a long period of time or installment plan. Now we can provide a good discount, even if you pay in installments.

P.S. I would be really glad to send you greetings from the Russian wild west, but unfortunately I’m not in Russia now.

View attachment 339782



Best regards,
Ivan
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To close this, I have gone out of my way in my opinion to clarify my original post. Misreading and misinterpreting of my original post has caused this long thread. I even went so far as to accurately clarify my own "issue". In my opinion, there was never any animosity, disappointment, but not animosity. The disagreement was never more than a matter of fact disagreement. It was not about price in any way, we agreed on that as well as the stated quality for the price. It was not ever about a discount or an installment for me. It is more of a commission practice that I am used to and in all sincerity, that is both in Russia as well as outside of it. I utilize several painters for different projects both in England, the United States as well as Russia. For obvious reasons and quite unfortunate ones, my 3 Russian painters/studios who I did the most direct business with are off limits for now (and like you, they only paint original figures, I do not use or at least in my best try use any counterfeit groups). As I said before, if we were talking about a $300 or $500 figure, not that big of a deal. But, when it is a fairly significant piece, I am much more comfortable with some kind of deposit/approval plan. I am not the originator of that idea in any way, I can tell you that was dictated to me by other painters (actually Tatyana the first time) and quite frankly it makes sense. Then everyone is happy and no misunderstandings with the finished project. That said, I am not one that is going to tell you how to run your business nor do I have that right, it is your business and a quality one at that. End of day, this is just what it is, like I said, somewhat bittersweet on my end as a collector as obviously, you produce some very nice items.

Best.
 
Ha Ha, so funny that some members believe that just mentioning a company is being 'negative' towards them :ROFLMAO:
 
OzDigger said:
Ha Ha, so funny that some members believe that just mentioning a company is being 'negative' towards them :ROFLMAO:
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I agree, he deliberately put in he was NOT talking about said company. As they say, offense is more ofteh taken than given. I bought some Russian made figures, used to visit St Peterburg through work and bought some while there, probably mid quality for a Russia figure, have seen some and they are works of art.
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also bought some from evilbay, I bought the 2 below, totally different from what i normally collect but they are very impressive pieces, may get a couple more, they are from the company on ebay below,

Security measure

www.ebay.ie www.ebay.ie

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