Andy (2 Viewers)

[wadepat]

I collect for myself and I hate the limited editions. To me it just means higher prices that I have to pay for figures that I,ll never get a resale value for because I do not intend to sell.
I hate the whole retirement thing also and wish they made each figure by the ton to bring the price down not up.
I collect napoleonics and for a good diorama you need lots of figures because these were huge battles with 100,000-300,000 men on the field at times in huge lines colums and squares and the limited edition/early retirement B.S. dosn,t help my collecting at all.
Most of you guys also have no intension of ever selling your collections also but still buy into this limited edition B.S. and I can,t understand why??? To me it just means I have to pay more and have to worry about buying that figure or set before its retired and I have to buy it from some Ebay scalper who is going to over charge me for it.
The Ebay guys and the manafactures are the only ones making out on the deal!!!

I don,t know why you guys buy into this!!! It reminds me of something I once heard a comedian say ( women will buy shoes just so other women can,t have them).
Thats just my take on the whole limited edtion thing!!!!

Hi Tim,

I'm glad you shared your thoughts on this issue with us. Since I have been collecting some K&C lines, I have been fortunate enough to purchase those strictly limited items that I really wanted. However, to some extent, I purchase them out of self-defense because I refuse to pay the high prices necessary to acquire the items on the secondary market. Frankly, I would be much more comfortable if the concept of "Strictly Limited Editions" and "retirements" did not exist and we simply let the marketplace determine what becomes rare, valuable, expensive, and desirable in the long run.

However, having said the above, I should also add that I understand that manufacturers are in the business of making a profit and the concepts of "Strictly Limited Editions" and "retirements" generate great excitement, enhanced interest, and brisk sales. If I were a manufacturer, I would probably offer limited editions from time to time for the reasons I have previously stated. So, as much as I would like to see figures remain on the market for a longer period of time, I realize it just isn't going to happen and I need to accept that fact. I don't particularly like the practices, but I must accept them.

I also recognize that there is a point at which it becomes difficult for a manufacturer to financially justify continuing to produce figures that do not sell well, especially in a limited market like toy soldiers. In the final analysis, I must tell myself that "I can't have it all." But, the realities of the marketplace and the limitations of my budget do not stop me from wishing I could own more.

It is possible to examine the effects of never retiring figures/sets. For example, William Hocker has never retired a single set in his various lines. His glossy figures are extremely well done, they are in demand among many collectors, and they are a bit pricey. Occasionally, some of his sets show up on eBay. If you watch the auctions, seldom, if ever, do these sets sell for retail or above. Why? Because no one would pay more than retail when you can buy a brand new set direct from Mr. Hocker at the retail price. In short, no collector can count on realizing a profit in the short run from purchasing Mr. Hocker's goods. Consequently, only those collectors who really love his product purchase them. There is almost no collector speculation regarding making a quick buck in the short run. It is the love of his product that drives his sales. Somehow, in the most perfect of worlds, I would like to see all collectors acquiring items just because of the of love them and not with any intention of making money from their collections.

Yes, yes, I know my attitude is entirely unrealistic. But, just as I wish I owned more figures than I can afford, I wish the profit motive did not enter the minds of collectors.

And, that, my friends, is my idealistic story for the day. So, there!

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[kilted vampire]

It is possible to examine the effects of never retiring figures/sets. For example, William Hocker has never retired a single set in his various lines. His glossy figures are extremely well done, they are in demand among many collectors, and they are a bit pricey. Occasionally, some of his sets show up on eBay. If you watch the auctions, seldom, if ever, do these sets sell for retail or above. Why? Because no one would pay more than retail when you can buy a brand new set direct from Mr. Hocker at the retail price. In short, no collector can count on realizing a profit in the short run from purchasing Mr. Hocker's goods. Consequently, only those collector who really love his product purchase them. There is almost no collector speculation regarding making a quick buck in the short run. It is the love of his product that drives his sales. Somehow, in the most perfect of worlds, I would like to see all collectors acquiring items just because of the of love them and not with any intention of making money from their collections.

Not to mention Bill is one of the really nice guys in the hobby. He will quickly and gladly invite you over to see his business.

 

[boot51]

I like your line of thinking on the Limited Edition subject, Tim. Paying a premium for figures I don't want or like is pretty distasteful. A great case in point is the recent LE Sherman, great vehicle, I love it, the Patton-like figure, his aide and the two crew members standing at attention are, to me anyway, a waste of money. If they had the five man crew in a more of an action pose or even in a setting more like the winter tiger then okay, but it looks kind lame the way it is. Sorry, just telling it like I see it.

Fred

 

[fishead19690]

The only time I see a need for a limited edition is for an item that has limited market, something that would only sell a very small amount and not apeal to the masses but Would sell on small scale to the FEW how would buy that iteam, but I think the whole thing has turned into a marketing tool and is used to try and drive up the price.
Thats just my opion and i,m sure there are guys out there that think they are making some huge investment in toy soldiers and are going retire on the the investment of the toy soldiers that they say they,ll never sell??? What ever???
I just like to collect for myself and I guess were all into this hobby for different reasons but you guys who are making investments just remember the beanie baby craze!!!

 

[Capitolron]

Tim:

I disagree on your position of Limted Editions - I think they do have a place in our collectors hobby. I think they just can come back down a little bit to the $99 level to make it easy on the rest of us and our budgets.

That is why I am floating the idea of a $25-$29 single figure to creat a collectable - especially in yours and mine favorite period.

I have never heard of all the collector club figures running out or not being able to order a limited edition from K&C or another shop??

I think even at 1,500 figures there are still enough to go around.

Ron

 

[Rob]

$99?.That would really hamstring Andy as to what he could produce.What i like about the ltd eds is that they are extra special.K&C is a business and i don't think that its Andy's job to reduce the price SO much as so everyone can afford them.Hard as it sounds part of the appeal is that not everyones got them.We can't expect Andy to keep producing the real deal whilst constantly cutting the price.Like the single figure idea,that would be cool.I think there is something similar coming in the new ACW range.

Rob

 

[fishead19690]

Tim:

I disagree on your position of Limted Editions - I think they do have a place in our collectors hobby. I think they just can come back down a little bit to the $99 level to make it easy on the rest of us and our budgets.

That is why I am floating the idea of a $25-$29 single figure to creat a collectable - especially in yours and mine favorite period.

I have never heard of all the collector club figures running out or not being able to order a limited edition from K&C or another shop??

I think even at 1,500 figures there are still enough to go around.

Ron

I,m always up for more napoleonics but why would you want them as limited editions? to me your ideas of limited editions would just drive up the price. why not just more regular edition napoleonics at regular prices. You also suggested that they be in poses like firing and at attension so that you could buy mulitples of them??? wouldn,t you want such poses in a regular release so that they would be avaible longer and have more on the market to purchase???
Looking back at your earlier posts I think it was you who set me off with your feeding andy with ideas of how to ruin my plan of buying every napoleonic figure under the sun!!!

I,m sorry but I look at the idea of making limited editions for the sake of limited editions as shooting your self in the foot. Maybe I can talk to andy and have him charge you extra for your next figures!

I,m sorry i,m just joking with you but, I think this just drives up prices and limits us as to just how many of the firing and figures at attension that we can buy multiples of that you mentioned in your post.

 

[Capitolron]

$99?.That would really hamstring Andy as to what he could produce.What i like about the ltd eds is that they are extra special.K&C is a business and i don't think that its Andy's job to reduce the price SO much as so everyone can afford them.Hard as it sounds part of the appeal is that not everyones got them.We can't expect Andy to keep producing the real deal whilst constantly cutting the price.Like the single figure idea,that would be cool.I think there is something similar coming in the new ACW range.

Rob

Rob

What i was talking about with the $99 is that Andy had released the Rommel Car Ltd Ed at $99 and then later released the Meyer Car Ltd Ed at $199 - I think its easier for those of us who like to collect all K&C stuff to have a few more $99 offerings than the increase of the $199 offerings - I dont collect WW II so it really doesnt effect me - but, it would be good for others.

On the single figure front - its just an idea out of the box for Andy to look at - I dont think he has ever done a Limited Edition - Single Figure - he has done DEALER FIGURES which I love and try to get - thats where my idea come from.

Ron

 

[Capitolron]

I,m always up for more napoleonics but why would you want them as limited editions? to me your ideas of limited editions would just drive up the price. why not just more regular edition napoleonics at regular prices. You also suggested that they be in poses like firing and at attension so that you could buy mulitples of them??? wouldn,t you want such poses in a regular release so that they would be avaible longer and have more on the market to purchase???
Looking back at your earlier posts I think it was you who set me off with your feeding andy with ideas of how to ruin my plan of buying every napoleonic figure under the sun!!!

I,m sorry but I look at the idea of making limited editions for the sake of limited editions as shooting your self in the foot. Maybe I can talk to andy and have him charge you extra for your next figures!

I,m sorry i,m just joking with you but, I think this just drives up prices and limits us as to just how many of the firing and figures at attension that we can buy multiples of that you mentioned in your post.

Tim

First off - you and I are good. No offense taken on any of this stuff. Its just a great conversation. And yes, it was my ideas that got you in the soup my friend - sorry.

But, you and I agree we need more regular issues (especially Napoleonics) and hopefully Andy will build out our favorite range more. I am not all about dollars and cents with our figures - want more, more , more too

Why not some special figures which Andy needs a short market to make production worth his while??

Isn't more better on all fronts?

Ron

 

[Rob]

Ron,i see what you mean.You are making some good suggestions.And in general single figures would allow for more flexibillity in dioramas.

Rob

 

[OzDigger]

Rob

What i was talking about with the $99 is that Andy had released the Rommel Car Ltd Ed at $99 and then later released the Meyer Car Ltd Ed at $199 - I think its easier for those of us who like to collect all K&C stuff to have a few more $99 offerings than the increase of the $199 offerings - I dont collect WW II so it really doesnt effect me - but, it would be good for others.

On the single figure front - its just an idea out of the box for Andy to look at - I dont think he has ever done a Limited Edition - Single Figure - he has done DEALER FIGURES which I love and try to get - thats where my idea come from.

Ron

Ron, I think the RRP for the Rommel Greif 250 halftrack was actually US $125. The later Meyer vehicle was based on a 251 halftrack, which was a larger vehicle, and included several more figures. And at US $199 it wasn't that much more if you factor in the larger model and extra figures.

That said, I feel that it's best to keep the number of figures down in vehicle sets because most collectors don't really want to many figures and are reluctant to pay the additional funds for them.

 

[Capitolron]

Ron, I think the RRP for the Rommel Greif 250 halftrack was actually US $125. The later Meyer vehicle was based on a 251 halftrack, which was a larger vehicle, and included several more figures. And at US $199 it wasn't that much more if you factor in the larger model and extra figures.

That said, I feel that it's best to keep the number of figures down in vehicle sets because most collectors don't really want to many figures and are reluctant to pay the additional funds for them.

Oz:

OK - I thought the Rommel Grief was less - but, you see what I mean.

So we are in agreement then - see Aussie-American cooperation

Its a brand new day.

Ron

 

[Rob]

I suppose its a fine balance on the number of figs with a vehicle.I thought the amount on the 251 was ok,whilst the new Sherman perhaps a little too many.(although it didn't stop me buying it!)I think i prefer actual crew to add on figs.How about that new MKII with the Blackshirts?.

Rob

 

[Capitolron]

The real issue is cost. It does help a little when "limited editions" are around $125 instead of $199.

 

[OzDigger]

I agree Ron, buyers look at the bottom line, and at $199 I think most collectors were reluctant to pay the extra funds for those few more figures.

 

[Capitolron]

Andy would make more money on the Limited Foot Solider Idea - I think....