Anyone else like film Noir? (1 Viewer)

[BLReed]

What Makes A Movie "Film Noir" ?

Google is your friend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_noir

 

[PJDeluhery]

I thought of another film that was really good and dark, but don't know if it fits in "noir". How about "Seven" with Pitt and Freeman? A really well done show with outstanding performances. -- Al

Good one! It's Noir to me!

 

[PJDeluhery]

Not quite Noir, but I just recieved a 50 pack of mystery movies from Amazon - actually bought it "used" .

http://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Class...ef=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1289675370&sr=1-1

Some great stuff here - Bulldog Drummond, The Shadow, Sherlock Holmes and others.

The film qulaity is "not bad" (sound a little noisy) but it beats anything else on TV IMHO. These packs are great bargains and very enjoyable unless you are a stickler for high quality reproduction. Hell, the originals shown in the theatres in the 30s probably weren't much better.

 

[damian]

I agree with all those new-noir choices; I think they are fine examples. The remake of Get Carter with Stallone was painful to watch. Even more sadly, when you google the title, that is the one that comes up first.

Is Michel Caine "Film Noir". I thought one of the definition of Noir" was that it was an American movie?
I agree the Stalloe version was terrible.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Is Michel Caine "Film Noir". I thought one of the definition of Noir" was that it was an American movie?
I agree the Stalloe version was terrible.

Contrary to the suggestion of some there is ample evidence that noir need not be an American film or about Americans. It reached its peak in Hollywood right enough but it is generally recognized now as an international genre. Interestingly enough, the first noir films are credited to a couple of German directors, including Fritz Lang's M (released in Germany in 1931) and Michael Curtiz's Private Dective 62 (1933). Even before the beginning of the classic noir period in US films, there are many others made far from Hollywood that can be seen as film noirs, including the French productions Pepe le Moko (1937), and Le Jour se leve (1939.

There are numerous British noirs from the classic period include Brighton Rock (1947), They Made Me a Fugative (1947), The Small Black Room (1948), The October Man (1950), and Cast a Dark Shadow (1955). The classic noir Night in the City by Jules Dassin was shot in Great Britain (1950) by Fox's UK sub, even though it stars two Americans, Richard Widmark and Gene Tierney. The British can also claim one of the most famous of classic noirs in director Carol Reed's The Third Man (1949), set in Vienna immediately after World War II and, like Brighton Rock, based on a Graham Greene novel. Greene, of course, was an English author, playwright and literary critic responsible for other notable films like the Quiet American and Beyond the Limit.

There are also numerous French noir films from the classic periond. Some of these include Quai des Orfèvres (1947), Le Salaire de la peur (released in English-speaking countries as The Wages of Fear) (1953) and Les Diaboliques (1955), all directed by Henri-Georges Clouzot; Casque d'or (1952) and Touchez pas au grisbi (1954), both directed by Jacques Becker; and Ascenseur pour l'échafaud (1958), directed by Louis Malleone and of course one of the most famous French film noirs, Rififi (1955) directed by Jules Dassin.

Then of course we have French director Jean-Luc Godard's À bout de souffle (Breathless; 1960). So I would have to say, noir is certainly not limited to American films as far as I can tell.

 

[PJDeluhery]

Contrary to the suggestion of some there is ample evidence that noir need not be an American film or about Americans. It reached its peak in Hollywood right enough but it is generally recognized now as an international genre. Interestingly enough, the first noir films are credited to a couple of German directors, including Fritz Lang's M (released in Germany in 1931) and Michael Curtiz's Private Dective 62 (1933). Even before the beginning of the classic noir period in US films, there are many others made far from Hollywood that can be seen as film noirs, including the French productions Pepe le Moko (1937), and Le Jour se leve (1939.

There are numerous British noirs from the classic period include Brighton Rock (1947), They Made Me a Fugative (1947), The Small Black Room (1948), The October Man (1950), and Cast a Dark Shadow (1955). The classic noir Night in the City by Jules Dassin was shot in Great Britain (1950) by Fox's UK sub, even though it stars two Americans, Richard Widmark and Gene Tierney. The British can also claim one of the most famous of classic noirs in director Carol Reed's The Third Man (1949), set in Vienna immediately after World War II and, like Brighton Rock, based on a Graham Greene novel. Greene, of course, was an English author, playwright and literary critic responsible for other notable films like the Quiet American and Beyond the Limit.

So I would have to say, noir is certainly not limited to American films as far as I can tell.

An impressive display of knowledge, there, my friend!

I think there is realy no complete definition of "Noir". I've heard it described by subject matter, film technique and other characteristics. And something I read links its beginnings to German Expressionism - films such as "M". So I think one cannot limit it to any particular country, as you say.

While the "dark" plotted and filmed American detective films of the 30s and 40s are probably the height of this genre, they certainly are not the whole body of work, so I don' t think you can necessarily limit the genre to any particular time period or country. If you like thse movies, a list of Noir films is probably a good place to start, but you could certainly add many others to the list that are of the same characteristics. Let's not get too hung up on the "definition." Just enjoy them for what they are.

 

[Spitfrnd]

An impressive display of knowledge, there, my friend!

I think there is realy no complete definition of "Noir". I've heard it described by subject matter, film technique and other characteristics. And something I read links its beginnings to German Expressionism - films such as "M". So I think one cannot limit it to any particular country, as you say.

While the "dark" plotted and filmed American detective films of the 30s and 40s are probably the height of this genre, they certainly are not the whole body of work, so I don' t think you can necessarily limit the genre to any particular time period or country. If you like thse movies, a list of Noir films is probably a good place to start, but you could certainly add many others to the list that are of the same characteristics. Let's not get too hung up on the "definition." Just enjoy them for what they are.

Well there is no doubt that the definition is hardly a concensus; many distinguished critics and film historians can't even agree whether it is a genre, a type, a style or just a mood. Besides not always featuring the prevalent themes of American detectives or criminals, they also vary widely on the relative importance and even presence of the so-called key elements of the "oneiric, strange, erotic, ambivalent, and cruel". That is why more modern films like Fargo, Pulp Fiction or Collateral are often debated as examples of neo-noir. Whatever you call them though, they have a common quality that links them to the classics and may be enjoyed however they are labeled.

 

[Mitch]

If you look at wikipedia they have a quite in depth review of all this information stated. Not bad considering how poor wikipedia is.
Mitch

 

[damian]

Contrary to the suggestion of some there is ample evidence that noir need not be an American film or about Americans. It reached its peak in Hollywood right enough but it is generally recognized now as an international genre. Interestingly enough, the first noir films are credited to a couple of German directors, including Fritz Lang's M (released in Germany in 1931) and Michael Curtiz's Private Dective 62 (1933). Even before the beginning of the classic noir period in US films, there are many others made far from Hollywood that can be seen as film noirs, including the French productions Pepe le Moko (1937), and Le Jour se leve (1939.

There are numerous British noirs from the classic period include Brighton Rock (1947), They Made Me a Fugative (1947), The Small Black Room (1948), The October Man (1950), and Cast a Dark Shadow (1955). The classic noir Night in the City by Jules Dassin was shot in Great Britain (1950) by Fox's UK sub, even though it stars two Americans, Richard Widmark and Gene Tierney. The British can also claim one of the most famous of classic noirs in director Carol Reed's The Third Man (1949), set in Vienna immediately after World War II and, like Brighton Rock, based on a Graham Greene novel. Greene, of course, was an English author, playwright and literary critic responsible for other notable films like the Quiet American and Beyond the Limit.

There are also numerous French noir films from the classic periond. Some of these include Quai des Orfèvres (1947), Le Salaire de la peur (released in English-speaking countries as The Wages of Fear) (1953) and Les Diaboliques (1955), all directed by Henri-Georges Clouzot; Casque d'or (1952) and Touchez pas au grisbi (1954), both directed by Jacques Becker; and Ascenseur pour l'échafaud (1958), directed by Louis Malleone and of course one of the most famous French film noirs, Rififi (1955) directed by Jules Dassin.

Then of course we have French director Jean-Luc Godard's À bout de souffle (Breathless; 1960). So I would have to say, noir is certainly not limited to American films as far as I can tell.

This is just my personal view I am no critic or expert but one of the themes I always look for in Noir is the issue of unexpected temptation sin and redemption. Now that is quite a Catholic sort of thing and that is why Graham Greene's Brighton Rock is in there. I would say those are themes in Get Carter and the end with those mine skips carrying coal out to the ocean must represent a soul being sent to Hell.
Some of the British movies on the 1950's like Look Back in Anger and Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner have a similar feel as some of the Noir classics. I find Ice Cold in Alex to have a bit of a similar feel.
Anyway just my personal view. All movies listed here are excellent by the way.

 

[Spitfrnd]

This is just my personal view I am no critic or expert but one of the themes I always look for in Noir is the issue of unexpected temptation sin and redemption. Now that is quite a Catholic sort of thing and that is why Graham Greene's Brighton Rock is in there. I would say those are themes in Get Carter and the end with those mine skips carrying coal out to the ocean must represent a soul being sent to Hell.
Some of the British movies on the 1950's like Look Back in Anger and Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner have a similar feel as some of the Noir classics. I find Ice Cold in Alex to have a bit of a similar feel.
Anyway just my personal view. All movies listed here are excellent by the way.

I think temptation, sin and redemption (or at least the attempt at it) are very common noir themes and I would add some brutality and a sense of irony. Certainly you have those in Greene's M and Brighton Rock. If you haven't see the Criterion release of M I would most reccomend it. A neo-noir that I think most who have commented here might like is True Romance, a bit of a below radar 1993 film written by Tarantino, directed by Tony Scott and with some nice acted by Christian Slater, Patricia Arquette and Gary Oldman and some amazing cameros. It has your T S & R, brutality and quite a bit of irony. The end has a nice twist as well. Worth trying if you haven't caught it yet and don't mind a little blood (Its Tarantino afterall). It is certainly in the mold of Pulp Fiction.

 

[lancer]

I think temptation, sin and redemption (or at least the attempt at it) are very common noir themes and I would add some brutality and a sense of irony. Certainly you have those in Greene's M and Brighton Rock. If you haven't see the Criterion release of M I would most reccomend it. A neo-noir that I think most who have commented here might like is True Romance, a bit of a below radar 1993 film written by Tarantino, directed by Tony Scott and with some nice acted by Christian Slater, Patricia Arquette and Gary Oldman and some amazing cameros. It has your T S & R, brutality and quite a bit of irony. The end has a nice twist as well. Worth trying if you haven't caught it yet and don't mind a little blood (Its Tarantino afterall). It is certainly in the mold of Pulp Fiction.

Good call on "True Romance". This film has it all including a very menacing Chris Walken as the mobster. The scene between Walken and Dennis Hopper is worth watching the movie for, alone. It is a roller coaster ride. -- Al

 

[Spitfrnd]

I think temptation, sin and redemption (or at least the attempt at it) are very common noir themes and I would add some brutality and a sense of irony. Certainly you have those in Greene's M and Brighton Rock. If you haven't see the Criterion release of M I would most reccomend it.....

Just wanted to correct a misque in this comment. I meant The Third Man instead of M in both cases in the above. That's what happens when you are typing while watching football.

 

[PJDeluhery]

Since some here are obviously film buffs to a greater or lesser extent, I thought I'd mention that TCM (Turner Classic Movies) is running a 7-part series on the history of motion pictures in America. It's called "Moguls and Movie Stars." Episode 3 was shown last night (Mondays @ 9PM). You can probably catch up with On Demand, if you have cable.

Don't know if TCM is running the series on its site. Well worth watching - if only to see Pickford, Fairbanks, Wm. Fox , etc. as young folks.

I'll probably buy the DVDs when they are available. Just wrong that way, i guesss.