Anyone notice the cost of our hobby is going up? (1 Viewer)

[desk11desk12]

Others have casually mentioned this recently. I don’t remember which threads it was said in, so I’m starting another discussion thread.

IMO, you really can’t blame Andy for this move, unless his future revenues go down for increasing his prices. We’ve all heard about the cost of labor in China rising and this would eventually lead to higher prices or would it? Isn’t it really an opportunity to “build a better mouse trap”, meaning an opportunity to improve his means of production and keep his prices relatively stable in face of emerging, yet still small competition from the likes of HB and NMA?

Or is it an oligopoly market, were a few players in the market can set prices to maximize their return-on-investment (ROI) given demand for their products is relatively constant. The latter being a huge assumption.

I don’t know what the answer is and I’m not necessarily upset with recent events because if they (HB, NMA and KC) guesses incorrectly, market forces will find a new equilibrium for the prices for their goods. Interestingly though if the market can sustain these price increases, (IMO) there will be similar affect in the 1/32 market for Britains and Conte sets though maybe only a moderate price increase.

PERSONAL BOTTOM LINE:
I never thought I’d say this but I may be facing the decision to buying/ investing in approximately 65-70% of the new WWII 1/30 and 1/32 production runs instead of usual 90-95%.

Just some observation, what do you guys think?

Carlos

 

[Fubar]

Carlos, I don't know about the cost of labor going up in China, or what kind of alloys they can use without the EPA restrictions like here, but I can tell you the cost of casting alloy has gone up .
6 weeks ago lead free casting alloy was $4.80.00 per pound by the ton.
It is now $5.60 per pound.That alone will bump up the cost at least for items made here , which are very few.
FuBaRrRrRR

 

[nmrocks]

I blame the higher prices on all you new guys, we that have known about our little K&C secret for years were going along just swimingly until you newbee's showed up. Now prices go thru the roof and demand is high. Why don't you newbee's go find your own stuff to collect!
Ray

 

[Njja]

I blame it on greed. Everyone wants to be a millionare today, now! No one

seems to want to own the gold mine and make millions, they want them

today.....now.

Making money is usually 5% skill & intelligence and 95% luck because there

is always someone out there just as smart or smarter then you.

Some of these manufacters would be well advised to hire experts to define

the demographics of their marketplace before they flood it with product.

We had a strong thriving marketplace, lots of new items to buy, and a nice

secondary market of retired pieces to help create interest in the product line

and create funds for many collectors to invest in the hobby.

Now with nothing being retired, and prices going up, where may I ask is all

the money going to come from?

For a collector to keep up it now would require an investment of $5K or $6K

a year. Perhaps somewhat justified if you felt a positive return could be

maintained if needed. I know the manufacters say that it is a hobby, and

they do not guarantee it as an investment yet they still want your $5K or

$6K a year, Well my friends that is not a hobby....it is becoming an

investment. In 5 or 6 years you could easily have $25K to $30K invested.

I say at the least the manufacters should display some interest in the

marketplace to protect their own long term interest, and that of their

dealers and customers.

If I am somewhat ahead of the curve I apologise I just don't want to see

anyone getting stuck in the mud.

A recient survey found many Americans are carrying to much debt, their

homes are not paid for, and they do not have ample savings for retirement.

Lets make sure we turn this trend around! Lets have fun.....responsibily.

Njja

 

[Alexdakar]

I never thought I’d say this but I may be facing the decision to buying/ investing in approximately 65-70% of the new WWII 1/30 and 1/32 production runs instead of usual 90-95%.

Carlos

I feel the same way. I might have to drop other lines of figures and concentrate on one or two. Its not just paying more for toy soldiers but there is also the increase in everything else. Gas, food, electricity, etc. Toy soldiers or gas to go to work?

 

[jazzeum]

Agree with the sentiments here.

 

[Njja]

Brad:


Hows the weather up in Jersey??


Njja

 

[vandilay]

Hi
The unusual thing about this market is the arival of competitors has
actualy pushed prices up ,as opposed to holding them.

I think with the huge growth in china and india going on at the moment ,
prices for most comodititys will remain high ,making everything more
expensive and this has flowed on too everything else.
You name it food,petrol ,labour, building costs,house prices here have
gone through the roof I dont know how people can afford to enter the market now.

It will be interesting too see what happens with the toy soldier market,
in the coming year or so.
We also have exchange rates working against us ,the cost of a four figure set
is $160 NZ [without shipping].So any price rises start to make this a very
expensive hobby.

 

[Louis Badolato]

This has always been an expensive hobby. With what we regularly spend in the secondary market, it is hard to complain about the initial cost of the products. Both K&C and HB have had to jack up prices lately, for the various reasons mentioned herein or for others we are not yet aware of, but when I started collecting in 1994, a four to six figure set of metal toy soldiers cost around $60-75, and now, a four to six figure set costs around $100-110. When you consider how much the cost of everthing else has increased in the last 12 years, the mark up doesn't really seem so terrible.

On the other hand, with all the companies making so many different 1/30 scale WWII items, it is extremely hard to keep up with all the new production. If you don't buy it all now, and want to fill in later once its retired, you end up really getting hosed. Talk about being caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

[vandilay]

your right,
I suppose it has always been an expensive hobby,
My collection is pretty modest so i dont lose any sleep over the
recent price rises.
But it must be hard for the guys who collect large numbers of the ranges.
I often ask myself should a guy in his 30,s be spending anything on toy
soldiers .But youve got to have your vices i suppose.[I could always give
up drinking ]

 

[jazzeum]

Brad:


Hows the weather up in Jersey??


Njja

It's breezy today John, like a fall day. When are you moving back?

 

[Njja]

Getting closer and closer just completed a transaction that has me one foot

out the door down here. Hope to have my feet in the sand of Long Beach

Island by this time next year!

Time for a little Real Estate wheelin and dealing!

Njja

 

[OzDigger]

I've heard that increased costs in China are causing these price rises but I feel they are poorly timed in view of the increasing competition and slowing of the global economy.

The increased availability of King and Country items together with more manufacturers entering the market will result in many more sets for sale, but at higher prices. Clearly this goes against most accepted economic principles of supply and demand. Therefore I feel collectors, and those with a taste for investing, will reduce their spending on these luxury items.

Some may feel the increased cost of the new sets will see more interest in retired items. However I suspect the poorer detail evident in most of the earlier issues will make them less desirable compared to later versions. This will be made worse when King and Country improve the detail on their tracked vehicles because most collectors, especially the new collectors, will anticipate 'improved' reissues of early sets. I have noted K & C have done this in the past and I suspect it is likely to increase.

 

[Toy Soldier Brigade]

I must have missed this story on CNBC. WHEN DID TOY SOLDIERS BECOME AN INVESTMENT ? This whole thing reminds me of the people who were buying baseball cards by the case in the 80's for their retirement. The bottom dropped right out that In my humble opinion, if you don't like the pricing don't buy. I'm sure that the price of oil has it effects on the toy soldier market just like it effects the prices of everything else we all buy The last time I checked the makers of our little toy soldiers are in business and not non-profit organizations. Sure I'd like to pay less for my toys. I'd also like to not have to pay 55.00 two or three times a week to fill my truck with gas. Ok I've ranted enough

 

[Fubar]

Toy soldier Brigade, I agree. My troops are not an investment.Nor are my books, Rifles,Tools, Prints or anything else I buy for myself. I buy what I like when$$$ I have for Hobbytime are available.I simply enjoy them for what they are.
Done a LOT of buying, selling and trading over the years.Hobby items are valuable to other enthusiasts.Everyone has their niche, what they like be it toy soldiers, Guitars, weapons, cars, ect.
Fub

 

[jazzeum]

Because this is a hobby and it an expensive hobby, the fact that you may have spent a good amount of money on your hobby over the years, be if $10,000 or $30,000 doesn't make it less of a hobby. I have never seen this as an investment. For investments, I turn that over to a manager. For a hobby, I do that myself as it's supposed to be fun. When we forget about the fun aspect, it's not worth doing anymore.

 

[Chuck Harris]

Because this is a hobby and it an expensive hobby, the fact that you may have spent a good amount of money on your hobby over the years, be if $10,000 or $30,000 doesn't make it less of a hobby. I have never seen this as an investment. For investments, I turn that over to a manager. For a hobby, I do that myself as it's supposed to be fun. When we forget about the fun aspect, it's not worth doing anymore.

If you guys think this hobby is expensive someday I'll write about my daughter's horse training days. I must say she was good, rode in National Shows and did very well. I was and still am very proud of her. This was spending money.
We can leave our Toy Soldiers on display and not have to feed or clean up after them. THINK ABOUT IT.

 

[Firebat]

I have to jump in on this one, and maybe you all will finally see where I was coming from. I was going to mention to you a long time ago that collecting is a loosing game, beanie babies etc. You can't get cozy with manufacturers. In this society money is the bottom line.
I collected NASCAR Diecast cars a while back, when NASCAR was not popular, the cars were $25, and the production was 1000 to 2000 pieces. Then NASCAR got popular, now the cars are around $65 with production in the tens of thousands. I sincerely do not hope to cause a controversy, and I think you are all great guys. I kind of been there and done that with hobbies, and I wanted make you aware of being cautious. I started a NASCAR Collectors club and I printed a news letter etc. As soon as I saw the writing in the wall, I told everyone to get out. I sold all of my 300 pieces, just in time, a lot of the guys didn't, now their collections are worthless.
I am a team player and sometimes you have to express tough love. I think this is a great hobby and I am not telling anyone to get out. Just be cautious. That's why I related The Firefighter analogy, you disagreed with. I was giving the hint that my beliefs and values are brotherhood, pride, excellence of work and team work, not the almighty dollar. That was the essence of my position, not the flag. I understand costs go up and price rises are invertible, but how high do they have to go. I am only writing because of my concern for fellow hobbyists and not to brew any controversy.........Respectfully Alex

 

[jazzeum]

I think this is something we're all worrying about but your point is well taken Alex. Andy has said that he won't go this way, e.g. mass production. We'll just have to keep our eyes on things and hope he's good at his word. If the next limited edition is higher than 1,250 then it may time to think about laying off the expensive items.

 

[sceic2]

My only concern for the value of my collection is the hope that my children will not sell it and prehaps even continue the tradition for years to come. If my grandson, age 6, were to become a collector, he could be collecting until the end of the 21st century. That could make my collection close to 100 years old by then.

I don't do this for the money value. Some do and bless them for doing it.