Battle of the Somme Anniversary (2 Viewers)

[Rob]

Heres to the memory of every man who took part in that terrible battle that started on the 1st July 1916.The 1st day of which remains the worst day in the History of the British Army with around 60,000 casualties 20,000 of whom were killed.God bless them all.

Rob

 

[lancer]

Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts...

 

[Molloy]

Heres to the memory of every man who took part in that terrible battle that started on the 1st July 1916.The 1st day of which remains the worst day in the History of the British Army with around 60,000 casualties 20,000 of whom were killed.God bless them all.

Rob

Cheers for posting Rob, was so knackered when I went to bed last night I didn't realise today was July 1st until I woke up and looked at my phone - the Somme's always the first thing that flashes through my mind when I see that date.

Here's to all of them.

Molloy.

 

[Rob]

Cheers for posting Rob, was so knackered when I went to bed last night I didn't realise today was July 1st until I woke up and looked at my phone - the Somme's always the first thing that flashes through my mind when I see that date.

Here's to all of them.

Molloy.

Hey Molloy,

I try to get over to the Somme on the 1st of July whenever i can.But when i can't make it,at 7.30am when the whistles blew my mind always goes to Lochnagar,Thiepval,The Ulster Tower,Serre and a hundred other places along that now green and peaceful front line.As the years go by we are gradually saying goodbye to all our WW1 Veterans and it will be up to us to keep their memory.I'll raise a glass to them all tonight.

Cheers mate

Rob

 

[Molloy]

Hey Molloy,

I try to get over to the Somme on the 1st of July whenever i can.But when i can't make it,at 7.30am when the whistles blew my mind always goes to Lochnagar,Thiepval,The Ulster Tower,Serre and a hundred other places along that now green and peaceful front line.As the years go by we are gradually saying goodbye to all our WW1 Veterans and it will be up to us to keep their memory.I'll raise a glass to them all tonight.

Cheers mate

Rob

Hi Rob,

I haven't managed yet to make it over to any of the First World War sites, but it's something that's long been on the agenda - quite aside from any personal interest in the military history, it's always struck me as a very, very moving place.

When you go over, do you go as part of an organised group, or do you prefer to make your own way around? It's always seemed to me that in the absence of going with a tour group, a car or some other kind of rented transport would be necessary to get around, as the memorials/battlefields, etc. seem very spread out?

You're quite right about the veterans of the conflict, it's very hard to believe there's so little left today. It's very disquieting to me as someone who studies history to realise that by the time I fully reach adulthood, have a family etc., it'll be the same story with veterans of the Second World War - we'll be able to count them worldwide in dozens. Even though it's ineveitable, it's a true shame to see that first-hand experience and memory slowly slipping away - no ammount of academic study and research can ever make up for that kind of knowledge.

Cheers,

Molloy.

 

[Rob]

Hi Rob,

I haven't managed yet to make it over to any of the First World War sites, but it's something that's long been on the agenda - quite aside from any personal interest in the military history, it's always struck me as a very, very moving place.

When you go over, do you go as part of an organised group, or do you prefer to make your own way around? It's always seemed to me that in the absence of going with a tour group, a car or some other kind of rented transport would be necessary to get around, as the memorials/battlefields, etc. seem very spread out?

You're quite right about the veterans of the conflict, it's very hard to believe there's so little left today. It's very disquieting to me as someone who studies history to realise that by the time I fully reach adulthood, have a family etc., it'll be the same story with veterans of the Second World War - we'll be able to count them worldwide in dozens. Even though it's ineveitable, it's a true shame to see that first-hand experience and memory slowly slipping away - no ammount of academic study and research can ever make up for that kind of knowledge.

Cheers,

Molloy.

Hi mate,

Its actually a lot easier than you think.Myself and my wife go almost every year to the Somme and Ypre(sometimes Normandy too)and we never go on a guided tour.All you need is a car and a copy of Major and Mrs Holts Battlefield guide and maps.Although things look spread out they are very easy to find with the maps.The Holts maps show all the memorials,cemeterys,VC sites,Pillboxes etc and are very easy to follow.I have seen guided tours in action and some of them are a disgrace.There is one famous tour company (i won't name them)who i watched as their guide sent the group off into Delville wood saying 'I'll wait here you go off and be back in half an hour' Hardly guiding!!!.

Also when your on your own you really get the atmosphere of the place.The eeriness of Sanctuary wood,the Bleakness of Passchendaele ridge and an unforgettable cold sunny dawn in Polygon wood,so moving its hard to keep a lump from your throat.I urge you to go mate,you'll never forget it and until you've experienced it you'll never know just what the silence on the Somme is really like.

P.S Another absolute Bible of the Western front is Rose coombs Before Endeavours Fade,wonderful book with great descriptions it was her labour of love taking her years to complete,a touch harder to follow than Holts but in some ways even better.(Only back in the mid 1970's she walked into a pillbox on the Somme and there were British Rifles piled in the corner!....The 1970's!!! Why couldn't i have been born ten years earlier!!!)

Rob

 

[theBaron]

Hi, Commonwealth citizens, are any of your Great War veterans still alive? I think our last one may have passed away within the past year.

As with all human history, we're approaching the time when no one alive will have any direct memory of the events. That's coming with WWII, now, too. The majority of the men who served are in their 70's and 80's.

Prost!
Bradley

 

[VIRIATO]

Hi Rob,

I haven't managed yet to make it over to any of the First World War sites, but it's something that's long been on the agenda - quite aside from any personal interest in the military history, it's always struck me as a very, very moving place.

When you go over, do you go as part of an organised group, or do you prefer to make your own way around? It's always seemed to me that in the absence of going with a tour group, a car or some other kind of rented transport would be necessary to get around, as the memorials/battlefields, etc. seem very spread out?

You're quite right about the veterans of the conflict, it's very hard to believe there's so little left today. It's very disquieting to me as someone who studies history to realise that by the time I fully reach adulthood, have a family etc., it'll be the same story with veterans of the Second World War - we'll be able to count them worldwide in dozens. Even though it's ineveitable, it's a true shame to see that first-hand experience and memory slowly slipping away - no ammount of academic study and research can ever make up for that kind of knowledge.

Cheers,

Molloy.

Hi,
Fortunately some of the veteran's impressions are recorded, it's not the same but it's better than nothing ( I now remember the BBC's World at War and The Great War documentaries ). I just hope that kind of documentaries continues to be made, even in this talk show,reality show, garbage TV era...

 

[Rob]

Hi, Commonwealth citizens, are any of your Great War veterans still alive? I think our last one may have passed away within the past year.

As with all human history, we're approaching the time when no one alive will have any direct memory of the events. That's coming with WWII, now, too. The majority of the men who served are in their 70's and 80's.

Prost!
Bradley

Hey Bradley,

There are now thought to be only three WW1 UK Veterans alive today.The Oldest was 112 yrs old on the 6th June.Some feat that,surviving WW1 and living to be 112!.

Rob

 

[Rob]

Hi,
Fortunately some of the veteran's impressions are recorded, it's not the same but it's better than nothing ( I now remember the BBC's World at War and The Great War documentaries ). I just hope that kind of documentaries continues to be made, even in this talk show,reality show, garbage TV era...

Absolutely agree 100%.When you think of the quality of programmes of that era and then look at todays rubbish...how children are supposed to grow up to be rounded human beings i'll never know.

Rob

 

[Molloy]

Hi mate,

Its actually a lot easier than you think.Myself and my wife go almost every year to the Somme and Ypre(sometimes Normandy too)and we never go on a guided tour.All you need is a car and a copy of Major and Mrs Holts Battlefield guide and maps.Although things look spread out they are very easy to find with the maps.The Holts maps show all the memorials,cemeterys,VC sites,Pillboxes etc and are very easy to follow.I have seen guided tours in action and some of them are a disgrace.There is one famous tour company (i won't name them)who i watched as their guide sent the group off into Delville wood saying 'I'll wait here you go off and be back in half an hour' Hardly guiding!!!.

Also when your on your own you really get the atmosphere of the place.The eeriness of Sanctuary wood,the Bleakness of Passchendaele ridge and an unforgettable cold sunny dawn in Polygon wood,so moving its hard to keep a lump from your throat.I urge you to go mate,you'll never forget it and until you've experienced it you'll never know just what the silence on the Somme is really like.

P.S Another absolute Bible of the Western front is Rose coombs Before Endeavours Fade,wonderful book with great descriptions it was her labour of love taking her years to complete,a touch harder to follow than Holts but in some ways even better.(Only back in the mid 1970's she walked into a pillbox on the Somme and there were British Rifles piled in the corner!....The 1970's!!! Why couldn't i have been born ten years earlier!!!)

Rob

Thanks for the tips mate, a trip over there sounds extremely do-able!

The reason I'd be specifically curious about transport is because both myself and my girlfriend currently only hold provisional Irish driving licences, which would rule out renting and driving a car on the Continent for both of us, so getting around from site to site without some kind of organised programme could be that bit more tricky. But - where there's a will, there's always a way, and besides, I suppose it's just a further incentive for me to go and sit my driving test.

Anyway, all things being equal, I think I'd be the same as you in preferring to take things at my own pace, spend longer at places that particularily interest me, less time at others, etc. I'm sure an awful lot of the tour groups that do military history themed trips like that are extremely sincere and valid, but you always run the risk of coming across bad examples like you mentioned.

Normandy I have done on a couple of different occasions, with parents, school tours, and it goes without saying how moving and evocative some of the locations there can be. Curiously enough, the first time I ever set foot in Normandy was aged six, in June 1994. Purely out of coincidence, my parents (who have absolutely no interest in military history) had booked a holiday home there for a fortnight, very near to Ste. Mere Eglise.

Of course, the two weeks we were staying were slap bang in the middle of the 50th anniversary celebrations, so the every village and town we visited was draped in Allied flags, and was filled with old gents in regimental blazers and berets - all of which made a massive impression on me. I've no doubts at all that that holiday was the first step towards an enduring interest and fascination with all things military related!

Cheers,

Molloy.

 

[Rob]

Wow mate you were so lucky to be there for the celebrations!.Normandy as you say is another really moving battlefield isn't it.I stood on Omha beach when the tide was out and looked all around me wondering how on earth anyone made it off that beach alive.The price of the freedom we enjoy was so high.

Rob

 

[UKReb]

Re: Vimy Ridge

Last December on the pretence of wanting to take my good lady to the famous French/Belgium Christmas Markets (for which I gained brownie points and a little female tolerance) I made sure we stayed in Arras which put me within striking distance of Vimy Ridge one of the few battlefields I had not visited before. After suffering two days of Gallic Noel and scented candles she asked me what I wanted to do on our third day to which I retorted "Well darling I have just noticed we are very close to Vimy Ridge and I'd like to take a look" The following shots may interest some of you, if not I'm sure they'll interest Rob.

Part of the Nivelle Offensive was to attempt to capture Vimy Ridge which the Germans had occupied from September 1914 as part of the "Impregnable Hindenberg Line" but primarily to ensure they retained the northern French coalfields.
The job was given to the Canadian Corps and on April 9th 1917 following a bombardment from 2800 Allied guns which pounded the German trenches the Canadians went over the top.

A famous picture of the ridge littered with Canadian dead

The same scene today

But machine gun emplacements like this one survived the barrage and the Canadian 4th Division took the brunt of the attack at this position and suffered 50% casualties in less than 5 minutes

The Canadians fought trench by trench and by the 12th April they were in control of Vimy. The following shots show you how close these trenches were- sometimes just a few metres apart. 3 days of fierce fighting ensued using mustard gas canisters and lobbing grenades into the trenches until the Germans were forced to the bottom of the ridge. They were unable to launch a successful counterattack and under cover of darkness withdrew. The Canadians proved that the Hindenberg Line was not "Impregnable" .

Remnants of German trench weaponry.

The woods at the top of the ridge are peppered with shell hole contours and red danger signs that read DANGER-NO ENTRY UNEXPLODED EXPLOSIVES and that guys is 90 years after that barrage.
A very moving experience as you walked through those trenches and a little eerie as it was early in the morning and misty with very few people about. Like Rob on Omaha I also pondered on how on earth men fought in terrain such as this and under 72 hours of continuous murderous fire.
God we owe those guys so much

Reb

 

[Rob]

Excellant pics/post Reb thanks very much for posting them.I was gutted because the last time we were there the underground tunnels were closed up so we couldn't get down there.I understand there are more excavations going on all the time at Vimy and just a couple of years back there was a tv docu about how they found a huge mine under there.They left it in situ and its still there sweating away under the car park!!.

The picture of the Canadian casualties on the ridge is very moving,as is the statue of Canada weeping for her lost sons.90 years on and theres still places they won't let you go,must be some serious ordanance under there!.I know some people feel the preserving of Sand bags in concrete is a bit artificial but it does show the layout at Vimy really well.And as you showed in your pics its amazing how close the opposing lines were,any decent Cricketer in the regt would have no prob putting a grenade into the enemy line.

Thanks again

Rob

 

[Capitolron]

UK Reb - thanks for sharing those photos - really interesting. I would like to get to visit some of these places in France. Mrs. Phillips is pushing for a return trip and the Champagne Region of course !

WWI is another interest of mine. One of those important turning points in Warfare.

What amazes me - is these place were there when the Germans Occupied France back in WWII - I wonder what the thought about them?

The thing that made an impression on me - was how the Germans left Paris intact and did not destroy buildings or the Art before being pushed out. You would think that the NAZI's would tear down things and build their own landmarks - thank goodness they didn't !

Ron

 

[Harrytheheid]

Yeah,
Those are really interesting photos Reb.
As per Rob, thanks for posting them.

Cheers
H

 

[OzDigger]

UK Reb - thanks for sharing those photos - really interesting. I would like to get to visit some of these places in France. Mrs. Phillips is pushing for a return trip and the Champagne Region of course !

WWI is another interest of mine. One of those important turning points in Warfare.

What amazes me - is these place were there when the Germans Occupied France back in WWII - I wonder what the thought about them?

The thing that made an impression on me - was how the Germans left Paris intact and did not destroy buildings or the Art before being pushed out. You would think that the NAZI's would tear down things and build their own landmarks - thank goodness they didn't !

Ron

Initially Hitler had some consideration for such things but as the war dragged on he got more and more over the top. Near the end of the war he wanted just about everything destroyed but we are lucky that some of his Generals did not always carry these orders out.

 

[OzDigger]

Interesting and thought provoking pics there UKReb. It looks like they have electric fences setup around those trenches, are they for livestock, or rampant tourists

 

[UKReb]

Interesting and thought provoking pics there UKReb. It looks like they have electric fences setup around those trenches, are they for livestock, or rampant tourists

I never found out, however it was to keep tourists off the areas between the trenches because of unexploded mines Well that's what the Canadian museum guy told me and he added they were indeed Canadian mines used by the troops to tunnel under the German lines.
Subsequently I stayed exactly where tourists were supposed to stay
Reb

 

[debrito]

Initially Hitler had some consideration for such things but as the war dragged on he got more and more over the top. Near the end of the war he wanted just about everything destroyed but we are lucky that some of his Generals did not always carry these orders out.

Hitler was a big admirer of PARIS architecture and urbanism (kind of secret...), and he wants to have some of Paris landmarks as example in his new Germania Capital, this why he never bombed the city, also he brought Albert Speer to his only visit of the French Capital...

Rod.