Bomber command memorial (2 Viewers)

[Mitch]

55,000 allied pilots died from Bomber command bravely doing a job to help rid the world of tyranny.

Today after many years a memorial is going to be seen to remember their sacrifice in Green park. Yet, sadly, they are branded 'war criminal' many of today's papers are fronting the story of german attempts to stop this memorial and using such terminology to aid their attempts.

I find it rather bad timing and strange that they cry such terms when it is clear we are remembering our dead.

Klaus Wohler states: ''The British people are being asked to pay homage a a shrine to the killers of defenceless men women and children people who turned Dresden into soot and ash. they were nothing more than airborne pirates''

To me, this is a little rich from a wartime country who introduced the world to carpet bombing of cities acroos mainland europe and the UK. My heart goes out to each civillian who lost their lives during the bombing campaign on all sides but, and I think my memory serves me no german bomber pilot was treid as a war criminal for the bombing of London, coventry et al nor were they tried for Rotterdam poland or a myriad of other cities which, were bombed into ash and soot.

Just because we had larger bombers and the ability to introduce heavier destruction does not mean that the pilots who flew these missions were any more or less war criminals than german japanese american italian airmen who did their duty.

We celebrate and remember the bravery and selflish courage of those who died and not the cities that were hit a huge difference and, will never be a crime.
Mitch

 

[Rob]

55,000 allied pilots died from Bomber command bravely doing a job to help rid the world of tyranny.

Today after many years a memorial is going to be seen to remember their sacrifice in Green park. Yet, sadly, they are branded 'war criminal' many of today's papers are fronting the story of german attempts to stop this memorial and using such terminology to aid their attempts.

I find it rather bad timing and strange that they cry such terms when it is clear we are remembering our dead.

Klaus Wohler states: ''The British people are being asked to pay homage a a shrine to the killers of defenceless men women and children people who turned Dresden into soot and ash. they were nothing more than airborne pirates''

To me, this is a little rich from a wartime country who introduced the world to carpet bombing of cities acroos mainland europe and the UK. My heart goes out to each civillian who lost their lives during the bombing campaign on all sides but, and I think my memory serves me no german bomber pilot was treid as a war criminal for the bombing of London, coventry et al nor were they tried for Rotterdam poland or a myriad of other cities which, were bombed into ash and soot.

Just because we had larger bombers and the ability to introduce heavier destruction does not mean that the pilots who flew these missions were any more or less war criminals than german japanese american italian airmen who did their duty.

We celebrate and remember the bravery and selflish courage of those who died and not the cities that were hit a huge difference and, will never be a crime.
Mitch

Absolutely agree with you Mitch. Its this namby pamby , we should apologize for everything load of b******s in my view. As you say, they started it and they got it back, can't do the time don't do the crime. Also they always bring up Dresden, how about the efforts of the men of Bomber command in cutting off Normandy in the run up to D Day invasion. An invasion that lifted the curse of Nazism from Europe including their own country. My family suffered in the Blitz so I have some idea of the horror all bombing causes, I feel very sorry for every person from every country who suffered in this way in WW2 but lets keep it on this planet and remember just who started it. I wonder if the Mayor of Dresden actually ever thought, well we did start it and laid waste to large areas of Europe as a result, perhaps I'll just button it.It also demonstrates a shocking lack of respect to call for this on the very anniversary of the start of the Blitz, when Germans remember Dresden I don't think we call for them to forget it do we.

London,Coventry, Hull all had large areas flattened and thousands killed, Hull had 85% of its buildings destroyed. How dare this woman come over here and tell us who we should and shouldn't honour. Its not our fault they cannot honour their forces because they started the worst War in History,don't try unloading your baggage on us. I for one will be there on the day this fabulous memorial is unveiled to our heroes.

Sorry for rant guys, but its this modern trend of running down our History for pc reasons that really gets my goat!

Rob

 

[Cardigan600]

Yo Troopers, nice one, they dished it out but couldn't take their own medicine. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
But you could have give Merseyside a mention la, we took a pasting, the bombers trying to get the docks both sides of the River Mersey & Cammel Laird shipyard. In fact they nearly got me a bomb landed in the next street to my grans where I was staying at the time and flattened the whole street blew all the windows out of my grans house. My old Dad was on leave he was an Irish Guard and was out all night helping people and putting the fires out. So here is a small tribute to our heroes
Bernard.

 

[Rob]

Yo Troopers, nice one, they dished it out but couldn't take their own medicine. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
But you could have give Merseyside a mention la, we took a pasting, the bombers trying to get the docks both sides of the River Mersey & Cammel Laird shipyard. In fact they nearly got me a bomb landed in the next street to my grans where I was staying at the time and flattened the whole street blew all the windows out of my grans house. My old Dad was on leave he was an Irish Guard and was out all night helping people and putting the fires out. So here is a small tribute to our heroes
Bernard.

Absolutely,I know London gets a lot of the coverage but many cities were of course bombed severley by the Luftwaffe especially those with docks.

Nice figure!

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Cardigan600...

Was not trying to skip anyone but, we could go on and on with the list of UK targets Belfast, Newcastle etc etc. I fully agree, that we have a share of PC loons who feel it necessary to try and sweep our heritage and history under the carpet as if its the black sheep of the family. I also fully agree with your points and robs about people in glass houses.

What makes me smile is how many people turn out and line the streets or, donate to the memorial when these veterans come out. If you cry 'total war' then get battered with it then hard lines.

Hitler had the opportunity to (even in war) apologise over the first mistaken bomb droppings over London but gave his speech to the faithful that if we drop 100 tons he will drop 1000 and 100,000 tons on us.

On a toy soldier point I hope we get a Bomber Harris figure from K&C Raf range.
Mitch

 

[Rob]

Another point here is the opinion of the Bomber Command relatives,what about their feelings?. Does it occur to the naysayers that maybe just maybe they would like to see their relative's names carved in stone in a permanent reminder of their sacrifice in the heart of one of the greatest cities in the world.

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Rob...

Thats a very good point and, IMO the memorial is way way overdue.
Mitch

 

[uksubs]

55,000 allied pilots died from Bomber command bravely doing a job to help rid the world of tyranny.

Today after many years a memorial is going to be seen to remember their sacrifice in Green park. Yet, sadly, they are branded 'war criminal' many of today's papers are fronting the story of german attempts to stop this memorial and using such terminology to aid their attempts.

I find it rather bad timing and strange that they cry such terms when it is clear we are remembering our dead.

Klaus Wohler states: ''The British people are being asked to pay homage a a shrine to the killers of defenceless men women and children people who turned Dresden into soot and ash. they were nothing more than airborne pirates''


To me, this is a little rich from a wartime country who introduced the world to carpet bombing of cities acroos mainland europe and the UK. My heart goes out to each civilian who lost their lives during the bombing campaign on all sides but, and I think my memory serves me no german bomber pilot was treid as a war criminal for the bombing of London, coventry et al nor were they tried for Rotterdam poland or a myriad of other cities which, were bombed into ash and soot.

Just because we had larger bombers and the ability to introduce heavier destruction does not mean that the pilots who flew these missions were any more or less war criminals than german japanese american italian airmen who did their duty.

We celebrate and remember the bravery and selflish courage of those who died and not the cities that were hit a huge difference and, will never be a crime.
Mitch

Well put Mitch
Don't forget the Germans in late 1944/45 were using V1 & V2 as vengeance weapons on Britain witch killed loads of civilian so it not like they stopped doing it + the Allied bomber crews had no choice

 

[uksubs]

I found out what the Luftwaffe did to my local town during the war & we lost family members in the bombing , I've also read of German fighter pilots shooting up high streets to & bombing small villages with no military targets

During the second world war many people came to Reading as it was thought to be a safe town, unlikely to be bombed by German aircraft. 25 000 people were sent to Reading as part of government schemes, and many more came as it was a safe place. The population of Reading grew from 100 000 to 140 000 between 1939 to 1942. Schools suffered, with many schools having to cope with 55% more children than normal. As Reading was so overcrowded, the town was closed to new arrivals.


Although a safe town, Reading was bombed six times in 1940 and 1941. Local people, who had been organised into Air Raid Precautions (ARP) wardens kept a watch for bombers while the Home Guard, who were other local people organised as a part time army, manned a rocket battery to try and stop bombers coming over the town.


The worst air raid on Reading was on the 10th February 1943. A single German bomber came over the town flying very low, so that very little warning could be given. It dropped a stick of bombs and machine gunned people in Reading and Caversham. The four bombs fell in a line from Minster Street to Friar Street. They wrecked the back of Wellsteeds store, where the Broad Street entrance to the Oracle now is, then a cafe in the Market Arcade behind Marks and Spencers, and then St Laurence’s church and the Town Hall. Many people were in the cafe and were killed by the bomb. St Laurence’s windows were blown out, and the offices of Blandy and Blandy next to the Town Hall destroyed. 41 people were killed, 49 seriously injured and 104 slightly injured.

 

[Rob]

Am just watching 'First day of the Blitz' , the first wave hit the docks as we know. But the second wave hit civilians at random, listening to the stories of my fellow countrymen and the things that happened to them and their families, I'll celebrate the heroes of my country and not worry too much about those who brought such a hideous war upon the world.

Am going to make a donation to the memorial this very day.

Rob

 

[uksubs]

UKIP MEP Mike Nattrass has expressed his anger over a German bid to scrap a memorial to Bomber Command and the tens of thousands that lost their lives fighting for King and country.

The West Midlands MEP, whose father was an RAF WWII Lancaster pilot, says efforts by German politicians to stop a memorial being erected in central London are an insult to the brave 55,000 bomber aircrew killed in World War Two.

Veterans have this week expressed their disgust over the stance of the Bild newspaper which has ran with a headline in English saying ‘Please Say No’ and efforts in Germany to stop the installation of the monument in London’s Green Park.

Mr Nattrass said: “As the MEP covering the Coventry area, which was devastated by German bombing, I am appalled that some German politicians and the Bild newspaper is actively campaigning and calling for the monument to be scrapped.

“How dare they. Many people in Bomber Command lost their lives to defend this country. At the end of the day they bombed us and we bombed them.

“To Quote Arthur ‘Bomber’ Harris, who was in charge of RAF bomber command:

“The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw, and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.”

“Indeed, the devastation of Coventry, within my constituency, led to the German’s creating the word ‘Coventrate’ meaning to devastate sections of a city by concentrated bombing. The Germans called for ‘Total War’ and they received the final dividend that is now history.

“It is nothing short of a national disgrace that there is no monument to Bomber Command and I join veterans in calling for this disgrace to end.

“Many brave airmen made the ultimate sacrifice to defend this country. It is also a fact that Bomber Harris was the only Chief of Staff not to get his honours at the end of the war. That was an insult to all who served in Bomber Command,” he added.

A spokesman for the Bomber Command Memorial Appeal states on the appeal website: “The collective role of RAF Bomber Command in freeing Europe from Hitler’s tyrannical rule has never been publicly recognised.

“RAF Bomber Command suffered the greatest percentage of casualties, accounting for 10 per cent of all fatalities in WWII.

“The RAF Bomber Command Memorial will serve as a reminder of the lives that were lost, and as a place for family members to remember loved ones, some of whom have never had a formal place of rest.”

 

[Mitch]

Already made mine. Sorry to hear about your family uksubs. Its worth watching these Blitz programmes and agree Rob I have squat sympathy the germans moaning and groaning should take a deep breath (I am loath to say and keep holding it) and look inward and put blame where blame lies with Hitler et al. A great shame but, one that was forced upon us and we had to win at all costs.

I was moved by the tail of the bomb falling down the air vent killing all those poor people.

The air war contributed to less allied troops being killed as much german war production was either destroyed or diverted to resist the air campaign. Thus aiding victory over these little despots.
Mitch

 

[uksubs]

Already made mine. Sorry to hear about your family uksubs. Its worth watching these Blitz programmes and agree Rob I have squat sympathy the germans moaning and groaning should take a deep breath (I am loath to say and keep holding it) and look inward and put blame where blame lies with Hitler et al. A great shame but, one that was forced upon us and we had to win at all costs.

I was moved by the tail of the bomb falling down the air vent killing all those poor people.

The air war contributed to less allied troops being killed as much german war production was either destroyed or diverted to resist the air campaign. Thus aiding victory over these little despots.
Mitch

Thanks for that Mitch what was very sad my cousins would be here still today but they went back to the shop to get her bag she left
I've Sky+ all the Blitz programmes
Have to agree got no sympathy for the Germans

 

[Mitch]

Its always the way those little things grabbing a bag a dog or cat that always seems to end is misery.
Mitch

 

[Rob]

So guys just so I know I'm not misunderstanding here. We now have a mayor of a city from the country that started and lost the War, telling us what we can and can't build in our Capital City that her country tried to level killing tens of thousands of civilians in the process,in the very week we remember the 70th anniversary of the first day of the Blitz in which 650 people died. Is it some sort of sick joke?.

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Remarkable is it not. I think she must be trying to get the far right sympathy vote. I think she has some nerve as its their authorities which allow far right loons to march in protest against the bombing yearly in Dresden. Thats why I had to buy the paper today when I was in M&S as I thought at first it was a sick joke.

I hope that our government now its changed has the backbone to say the reply needed.... Two fingers and, butt out. A fine wartime record to be telling us about crimes.
Mitch

 

[uksubs]

So guys just so I know I'm not misunderstanding here. We now have a mayor of a city from the country that started and lost the War, telling us what we can and can't build in our Capital City that her country tried to level killing tens of thousands of civilians in the process. Is it some sort of sick joke?.

Rob

I was thinking the same thing Rob
I've got to say if they don't build the memorial to the brave Bombers boys it will be a very sad day for this country

 

[Rob]

I am however heartened because it does seem like Boris Johnson although gracious and polite to his visitor has no intention of backing down over this, he's not as daft as we may think and knows when public opinion is strongly on his side.

He needs to get across the point that this is a memorial to all the efforts of BC in WW2 and not a celebration of the destruction of Dresden.

Rob

 

[Mitch]

It would be a national disgrace.
Mitch

 

[uksubs]

I am however heartened because it does seem like Boris Johnson although gracious and polite to his visitor has no intention of backing down over this, he's not as daft as we may think and knows when public opinion is strongly on his side.

He needs to get across the point that this is a memorial to all the efforts of BC in WW2 and not a celebration of the destruction of Dresden.

Rob

A good book about Dresden is "Dresden: Tuesday, 13 February, 1945"
He tell you the whole story how in 1938 /1939 they burnt down the synagogue & how they were making V2 parts & sub parts + it was central rail station between East & West